All Things LGBTQ+ (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[samiam5211]

What's your solution? To create separate transgender leagues in primary education? There aren't the numbers (of transgendered kids), funding or desire to do that in any of the states that are passing these laws.

Should they be forced to participate as the sex they where assigned at birth or not allowed to at all?

I'm not attacking you, just asking what a plausible solution looks like, in your eyes, that also preserves the competitive balance you feel has been eroded with the inclusion of transgendered girls.

I don't think there is a good answer to this question right now.

I think that allowing a ban on trans people in sports is actually the best thing for trans rights at the moment, because trying to fight the battle over sports is causing a loss of public momentum for the pro trans side.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The Granbury, Texas school district has repeatedly caved to the far-right’s demands, yanking books with LGBTQ content from library shelves and ordering librarians to review over 130 books for “questionable content.” Things have become so heated and awful that the gay son of one of the book banners spoke out to condemn her actions; she doesn’t have any children currently enrolled in the district.

Superintendent Jeremy Glenn has previously emphasized to the district’s librarians that their community was “very, very conservative” and that any school employee who does not possess conservative beliefs “better hide it.” While he started by saying he didn’t care if the books were about homosexuality or heterosexuality, he spoke explicitly about banning books with LGBTQ content.

“And I’m going to take it a step further with you. There are two genders. There’s male, and there’s female. And I acknowledge that there are men that think they’re women. And there are women that think they’re men. And again, I don’t have any issues with what people want to believe, but there’s no place for it in our libraries.”

Later in the conversation, he made his intent even more explicit.

“It’s the transgender, LGBTQ and the sex — sexuality — in books. That’s what the governor has said that he will prosecute people for, and that’s what we’re pulling out.”..........

Mom gets applause after ripping book-banning parents apart in school board meeting speech

 

[Optimus Prime]

Is it just me or is this first woman creepy/scary? I have no doubt that she has a volcanic temper





I did like the 'tell your pastor line'

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I don't think there is a good answer to this question right now.

I think that allowing a ban on trans people in sports is actually the best thing for trans rights at the moment, because trying to fight the battle over sports is causing a loss of public momentum for the pro trans side.

While I agree that it's a tough question to answer I disagree that the debate is hurting the trans community. Anything that points to the fact that trans should be able to lead as aspiring a life as anyone else is a good thing.

 

[Optimus Prime]

GRAND ISLAND, Neb. (AP) — Administrators at a Nebraska school shuttered the school’s award-winning student newspaper just days after its last edition that included articles and editorials on LGBTQ issues, leading press freedom advocates to call the move an act of censorship.

The staff of Northwest Public Schools’ 54-year-old Saga newspaper was informed on May 19 of the paper’s elimination, the Grand Island Independent reported. Three days earlier, the newspaper had printed its June edition, which included an article titled, “Pride and prejudice: LGBTQIA+” on the origins of Pride Month and the history of homophobia. It also included an editorial opposing a Florida law that bans some lessons on sexual orientation and gender identity and dubbed by critics as “Don’t Say Gay.”

Officials overseeing the district, which is based in Grand Island, have not said when or why the decision was made to eliminate the student paper. But an email from a school employee to the Independent cancelling the student paper’s printing services on May 22 said it was “because the school board and superintendent are unhappy with the last issue’s editorial content.”

The paper's demise also came a month after its staff was reprimanded for publishing students' preferred pronouns and names. District officials told students they could only use names assigned at birth going forward.

Emma Smith, Saga’s assistant editor in 2022, said the student paper was informed that the ban on preferred names was made by the school board. That decision directly affected Saga staff writer Marcus Pennell, a transgender student, who saw his byline changed against his wishes to his birth name of “Meghan" Pennell in the June issue.

“It was the first time that the school had officially been, like, ‘We don’t really want you here,’” Pennell said. “You know, that was a big deal for me.”..........

Nebraska school officials close newspaper after LGBTQ issue

 

[Optimus Prime]

It's the targeting and hatred of children and their families (let along adults) that make all of this transphobia so disgusting. These people aren't out to destabilize society or debase the moral fabric of it, they just want to live normal lives as themselves. Why is that so wrong that we have to pass laws targeting them as outcast and make their already challenging lives more difficult?

This is what it boils down to, and both sides say it's all about freedom

One side wants the freedom to live their lives in peace and in public and the other side wants the freedom to not allow that

 

[bird]

The never-ending story.

Yet again, the male-female division in sports is meant to divide males of the species from females of the species.

Yet again, there are millions of people who are born with physiological conditions which prevent them from playing any sports whatsoever, or even do simple things that most people can do or participate in; and they have millions of parents who have to explain to them why they can't participate in that particular sport or activity; and we either don't bat an eye for them, or create venues and associations for them to be able to participate at some level in said sports or activities. So again I ask, why should we treat the transgender condition any different?

Because they aren’t the same?

 

[SystemShock]

Because they aren’t the same?

They are not? So tell me, what makes them different from all of the other millions of people who have conditions which impede them from doing a myriad of things, like playing sports?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

They are not? So tell me, what makes them different from all of the other millions of people who have conditions which impede them from doing a myriad of things, like playing sports?

Because it's not a condition impeding them from playing sports, it's a rule/law. Shouldn't they keep banging on the door until it's figured out?

It isn't figured out yet.
===========================
"Guidelines regarding transgender athletes represent “sport’s unsolvable problem,” said Ross Tucker, a South African exercise physiologist who is helping World Rugby develop its eligibility rules.

He said it seemed impossible to balance the values of competitive fairness, inclusion and safety because they conflict. “Therefore, you have to prioritize them,” Tucker said. “That’s the problem. One group prioritizes inclusion. Another group says we want fairness and safety” on the playing field.

At puberty, male athletes generally gain physiological advantages for many sports, like a larger skeletal structure, greater muscle mass and strength, less body fat, greater bone density, larger hearts and greater oxygen-carrying capacity. As a result, men and women mostly compete in separate divisions. At issue for scientists and sports officials is how much testosterone-suppression regimens reduce those advantages.

Even if transgender athletes retain some competitive advantages, it does not necessarily mean that the advantages are unfair, because all top athletes possess some edge over their peers, said Vilain, the director of the Center for Genetic Medicine Research at Children’s National Hospital in Washington.

“It’s like saying Usain Bolt’s abilities are unfair because he wins by so much each time,” Vilain said."


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/sports/transgender-athletes-womens-sports-idaho.html

 

[SystemShock]

What's your solution? To create separate transgender leagues in primary education? There aren't the numbers (of transgendered kids), funding or desire to do that in any of the states that are passing these laws.

Should they be forced to participate as the sex they where assigned at birth or not allowed to at all?

I'm not attacking you, just asking what a plausible solution looks like, in your eyes, that also preserves the competitive balance you feel has been eroded with the inclusion of transgendered girls.

First, I will say, it is concerning that you mention primary school, which normally refers to kids 6 to 12 years of age. We don't let kids 6 to 12 make any important decisions and question their non important decisions.... but that's a separate discussion.

As for a solution, the first step towards any solution is for both extreme sides to understand that transgender people are not aberrations of nature, nor actual members of the opposite biology they were born with, respectively.

I have to note that I have an issue with the phrase "sex they were assigned at birth"... no one assigned sex to anyone; that's how sex organs developed. But again, a separate discussion.

But in the meantime, I don't see why we can't accommodate transgenders like we accommodate millions of people who have conditions that don't allow them to play on the regular divisions, and give them their venue to play competitive sports.

 

[SystemShock]

I don't think there is a good answer to this question right now.

I think that allowing a ban on trans people in sports is actually the best thing for trans rights at the moment, because trying to fight the battle over sports is causing a loss of public momentum for the pro trans side.

It's also causing a lot of momentum against it.

 

[SystemShock]

Because it's not a condition impeding them from playing sports.

Making blanket statements like that doesn't help your case.

It is not a condition that impedes them from playing sports.

It is a condition that impedes them (or should impede them) from participating in sports against the female members of the species. Yet again, the male-female division in sports is a division between males and females of the species, not how people feel or think they are. And this male-female division exists for reasons that should be very obvious to everyone.

And notice that I am talking about male to female transgenders. Female to male has a different set of issues, mostly being that steroids are controlled substances in all major sports.

Maybe they will keep banging on the door long enough and eventually will come up with a medical procedure that will actually turn a male body into a female body and vice versa (not just give it "the look") ; or maybe it'll end like the search for the gay gene ended.

In the meantime, let's continue to protect our females, shall we?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

literalist

It is a condition that impedes them (or should impede them) .............................................

It's not a condition that impedes them, it's a rule. Once we have a greater understanding of the issue then we can talk about who should and shouldn't play and at what level what rules may or may not apply. We're not there yet, and until we get there trans athletes should keep knocking on the door to force an understanding.

ISystemShock said: In the meantime, let's continue to protect our females, shall we?

Sports are tough. Mere mortals had to sprint against Usain Bolt. Six foot, 190 Lb, defensive backs had to try and defend against Randy Moss and Rob Gronkowski.

 

[SystemShock]

literalist

It's not a condition that impedes them, it's a rule.

if you want to be like that, ok... why is there a rule?

 

[bird]

They are not? So tell me, what makes them different from all of the other millions of people who have conditions which impede them from doing a myriad of things, like playing sports?

Because they can physically play the sport without specialized equipment?

 

[bird]

Making blanket statements like that doesn't help your case.

It is not a condition that impedes them from playing sports.

It is a condition that impedes them (or should impede them) from participating in sports against the female members of the species. Yet again, the male-female division in sports is a division between males and females of the species, not how people feel or think they are. And this male-female division exists for reasons that should be very obvious to everyone.

And notice that I am talking about male to female transgenders. Female to male has a different set of issues, mostly being that steroids are controlled substances in all major sports.

Maybe they will keep banging on the door long enough and eventually will come up with a medical procedure that will actually turn a male body into a female body and vice versa (not just give it "the look") ; or maybe it'll end like the search for the gay gene ended.

In the meantime, let's continue to protect our females, shall we?

Protect “our” females? From what? ”Our” implies “us” which implies your usage of the agitprop method called “the other”.

 

[SystemShock]

Protect “our” females? .... ”Our” implies “us” which implies your usage of the agitprop method called “the other”.

Come on, don't do that.
Ours, as in the females of our species.

From what?

From this (again, make sure you count the arms and legs, something I keep asking for, but no one seems to do):

Protect them from opportunities for the females of our species being taken away from them. We all know the history of our species, and what females of our species have gone through and still go through.

 

[SystemShock]

Because they can physically play the sport without specialized equipment?

What does that mean? What exactly are you trying to say? Not many sports that can't be played without equipment.

There are millions of people who can't play sports for a myriad of reasons: they were born too short, too tall, with defective spines, without arms, without legs, with heart conditions, mental conditions, blood conditions, syndromes, etc etc etc.