Will “mass deportation” actually happen (9 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[SystemShock]

First off, I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your point.

I think we have a difference in semantics. What is proof?

If a real ID can require something that supports citizenship, or another legal status, and there is no indication on the Real ID, then by definition, it cannot be proof of citizenship, because non-citizens can also get Real ID's. So, yes, a Real ID can be used to support someone's claim, but it would require a secondary document. So, by definition, it alone, is not proof. IT only supports.

The only document that is real proof of citizenship is a US Passport, because it establishes citizenship and has a picture ID. It can be used by its self. It can be questioned, but no secondary document is needed. The US State Department already vetted it.

And my point to TampaJoe was sort of what you're alluding to about ICE being unreasonable. It's convenient to not see this as an issue when that person fits the profile of middle white America. They don't have to think about what type of ID they carry. I wanted him to realize that his Real ID, by itself, is not proof. It requires corroboration.

Like I said to Joe, I think the idea of 'aiding a LEO investigation' is assuming a lot. I don't think they really have access to any additional data that would clarify anything. If a Real ID was all someone had, and they are being detained under suspicion of being in the country illegally, they'd have to present a birth certificate or US passport (for citizens only). I recall a story of a guy in Florida who got picked up with some illegals, had his ID, but not other supporting info and was locked up for days, until it hit the news.

My thoughts on this are also informed by the hair brained idea to push to end birthright citizenship. The burden of proof would turn into a State administrative headache of having to establish guidelines for parents to prove their legal status / citizenship.

What is proof? is a great question. And I agree that RealID requires corroboration; in my experience, and from my point of view, any ID works more like evidence than proof, because any ID is subject to validation/corroboration.

And yes, that was me narrowing a conversation for the sake of making a point, obviously I did not take into consideration or included early in my replies any reference to the current behavior of I.C.E. and the CBP, which have been shown to not give a damn about any documentation presented to them, passports, birth certificates, etc. if a person "fits the profile".

Instead of just posting an image, I should've used my words, and opened with something like "Well, prior to this year", or "under normal circumstances"...

 

[SystemShock]

It doesn’t need to be a US birth certificate, as I understand it. You would have needed to prove identity and legal residency but the birth certificate doesn’t prove you are a citizen. I don’t see how it can do anything except prove your identity and that you were a legal resident at the time you got the Real ID.

What am I missing here?

That any ID can be subject to verification/corroboration by the authorities, just like a drivers' license during a traffic stop, or a passport when you enter a country. The police officer who stops you in traffic, he doesn't take you showing the physical license as proof you are a licensed driver in good standing, they go back to the patrol to scan it and verify it. The CBP officer who you show your passport to, they don't take you showing them your physical passport as proof of citizenship, they scan it and verify it.

In that manner, a RealID, anyone working for DHS or CBP will have the means to verify which supporting document you provided to get the RealID star, and even verify the document you presented to get the RealID, even if you don't physically produce it at the moment. Of course, how things are today, that doesn't mean they are going to do that.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Some wear balaclavas. Some wear neck gators, sunglasses and hats. Some wear masks and casual clothes.

Across the country, armed federal immigration officers have increasingly hidden their identities while carrying out immigration raids, arresting protesters and roughing up prominent Democratic critics.

It’s a trend that has sparked alarm among civil rights and law enforcement experts alike.

Mike German, a former FBIagent, said officers’ widespread use of masks was unprecedented in US law enforcement and a sign of a rapidly eroding democracy. “Masking symbolizes the drift of law enforcement away from democratic controls,” he said.

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has insisted masks are necessary to protect officers’ privacy, arguing, without providing evidence, that there has been an uptick in violence against agents.

But, German argued, the longterm consequences could be severe. The practice could erode trust in the US law enforcement agencies: “When it’s hard to tell who a masked individual is working for, it’s hard to accept that that is a legitimate use of authority,” he noted.

And, he said, when real agents use masks more frequently, it becomes easier for imposters to operate.

German – who previously worked undercover in white supremacist and militia groups and is now a fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice, a non-profit – spoke to the Guardian about the dangers of officer masking, why he thinks officers are concealing themselves and how far the US has deviated from democratic norms.

This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Were you surprised by the frequent reports of federal officers covering their faces and refusing to identify themselves, especially during the recent immigration raids and protests in Los Angeles?

It is absolutely shocking and frightening to see masked agents, who are also poorly identified in the way they are dressed, using force in public without clearly identifying themselves.

Our country is known for having democratic control over law enforcement. When it’s hard to tell who a masked individual is working for, it’s hard to accept that that is a legitimate use of authority. It’s particularly important for officers to identify themselves when they are making arrests.

It’s important for the person being arrested, and for community members who might be watching, that they understand this is a law enforcement activity.

Is there any precedent in the US for this kind of widespread law enforcement masking?

I’m not aware of any period where US law enforcement officials wore masks, other than the lone ranger, of course.

Masking has always been associated with police states. I think the masking symbolizes the drift of law enforcement away from democratic controls.

We see this during protests. We see this in Ice raids. And we see this in the excessive secrecy in which law enforcement has increasingly operated since the 9/11 terrorist attacks.…..

The alarming rise of US officers hiding behind masks: ‘A police state’

Mike German, an ex-FBI agent, said immigration agents hiding their identities ‘highlights the illegitimacy of actions’

www.theguardian.com

 

[MT15]

Ted Cruz has become a parody of himself.

 

[MT15]

This young woman was brought here by her mother when she was 15, 10 years ago. She and her mother have been estranged now for years, and she has married a veteran and has 2 kids with him. She was in the process of getting a green card, which went smoothly at first, but at her last appointment they handcuffed her and took her away from her family, even though she was still breastfeeding their youngest child, less than a year old. Her mother had missed an immigration check-in, unbeknownst to her, and that is why they have imprisoned her. She had no idea this would happen, she thought she was trying to do the right thing.

ICE detains Marine Corps veteran's wife who was still breastfeeding their baby

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers detained the wife of a Marine Corps veteran in Louisiana during a routine immigration appointment in New Orleans.

apnews.com

“Ignoring an Immigration Judge’s order to leave the U.S. is a bad idea,” U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said in a June 9 post on X which appeared to refer to Clouatre’s case. The agency added that the government “has a long memory and no tolerance for defiance when it comes to making America safe again.”

Adrian Clouatre said the agency’s X post does not accurately reflect his wife’s situation because she entered the country as a minor with her mother, seeking asylum.

“She was not aware of the removal order, so she was not knowingly defying it,” he said. “If she had been arrested, she would have been deported long ago, and we would never have met.”

If you don’t know about a removal order, you’re not ignoring it. The fact that they say removing this young mother from her family is “making America safe again” is obscene. This administration is obscene in the worst way possible.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

This young woman was brought here by her mother when she was 15, 10 years ago. She and her mother have been estranged now for years, and she has married a veteran and has 2 kids with him. She was in the process of getting a green card, which went smoothly at first, but at her last appointment they handcuffed her and took her away from her family, even though she was still breastfeeding their youngest child, less than a year old. Her mother had missed an immigration check-in, unbeknownst to her, and that is why they have imprisoned her. She had no idea this would happen, she thought she was trying to do the right thing.

ICE detains Marine Corps veteran's wife who was still breastfeeding their baby

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers detained the wife of a Marine Corps veteran in Louisiana during a routine immigration appointment in New Orleans.

apnews.com

“Ignoring an Immigration Judge’s order to leave the U.S. is a bad idea,” U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said in a June 9 post on X which appeared to refer to Clouatre’s case. The agency added that the government “has a long memory and no tolerance for defiance when it comes to making America safe again.”

Adrian Clouatre said the agency’s X post does not accurately reflect his wife’s situation because she entered the country as a minor with her mother, seeking asylum.

“She was not aware of the removal order, so she was not knowingly defying it,” he said. “If she had been arrested, she would have been deported long ago, and we would never have met.”

If you don’t know about a removal order, you’re not ignoring it. The fact that they say removing this young mother from her family is “making America safe again” is obscene. This administration is obscene in the worst way possible.

This is the tyranny and hypocrisy on full display. Ignoring a immigration judge's order, unacceptable. Ignore a federal judge's order, copacetic.

 

[superchuck500]

Guess what - conditions in the concentration camps are terrible

 

[efil4]

50 years in New Orleans ( Lives in Lakeview - 50 years )

Iranian immigrant who has lived in New Orleans nearly 50 years arrested outside Lakeview home

Federal agents arrested an Iranian woman who has lived in the United States for more than four decades outside her Lakeview home Sunday.

www.nola.com

 

[MT15]

More long-standing law-abiding people being detained by ICE. Or whoever the masked thugs are. Yeah, let’s keep this up, only the criminal immigrants will be left.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Mother and her four kids – three of whom are US-born – detained in Texas ICE facility

Family living in Syracuse, New York, but originally from Guatemala comply with detainment order after patriarch’s arrest in order to keep family together

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Optimus Prime]

The Trump administration could soon deport immigrants to 58 countries that are not their place of origin, after a Supreme Court ruling earlier this week granted an emergency request to overturn a federal judge’s restrictions on such removals.

Human rights advocates warn that sending “third-country” nationals to these countries could expose them to abuse and violence, and strand them in places where they have no ties and often can’t speak the language.

Throughout this year, as the White House pushes to rapidly deport millions of immigrants, diplomats have been lobbying at least 58 countries to accept these deportees, The New York Times reports, citing interviews with officials and diplomatic cables.

So far, Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, Costa Rica, Rwanda, and Kosovo have agreed to such flights in varying degrees, while the State Department has already approached or plans to approach numerous other countries to reach similar agreements.

Many of the potential nations are in Africa, and the list includes regimes plagued with violence, political strife, and human rights abuses, including Libya and South Sudan.…..

Trump could deport immigrants to 58 countries after Supreme Court ruling

Diplomats have reportedly been offering payments and potential relief from Trump’s renewed travel ban to entice countries to take deported ‘third-country’ immigrants

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Optimus Prime]

The attorney general, Pam Bondi, professed ignorance of reports of immigration officials hiding their faces with masks during roundups of undocumented people, despite widespread video evidence and reports that they are instilling pervasive fear and panic.

Challenged at a Wednesday Capitol Hill subcommittee hearing by Gary Peters, a Democratic senator for Michigan, Bondi, who as the country’s top law officer has a prominent role in the Trump administration’s hardline immigration policy, implied she was unaware of plain-clothed agents concealing their faces while carrying out arrests but suggested it was for self-protection.

“I do know they are being doxxed … they’re being threatened,” she told Peters. “Their families are being threatened.”


Bondi’s protestations appeared to strain credibility given the attention the masked raids carried out by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) agents have attracted on social media and elsewhere.

Civil rights campaigners and democracy experts have criticised the raids as evocative of entrenched dictatorships and police states, and say it is a warning sign that the US is descending into authoritarianism.

Peters said he understood officers’ concerns at being doxxed but said the failure to wear identifying insignia endangered both themselves and detainees.

“The public risk being harmed by individuals pretending to be immigration enforcement, which has already happened,” he told Bondi. “And these officers also risk being injured by individuals who think they’re basically being kidnapped or attacked by some unknown assailant.

“People think: ‘Here’s a person coming up to me, not identified, covering themselves. They’re kidnapping.’ They’ll probably fight back. That endangers the officer as well, and that’s a serious situation. People need to know that they’re dealing with a federal law enforcement official.”

Bondi reiterated her proclamation of ignorance, saying: “It sounds like you have a specific case and will be happy to talk to you about that at a later time, because I’m not aware of that happening.”


She turned the tables later in the hearing after Bill Hagerty, a Republican from Tennessee, condemned Tim Walz, the Minnesota governor and the Democratic vice presidential candidate in last year’s election, for comparing Ice agents with Nazi Gestapo officers.

“This is dangerous for our agents, it’s wrong, and it cuts against and it undercuts the rule of law,” said Hagerty, who invited Bondi to explain how she intended to tackle “leftwing radicals” who he said were attacking Ice agents.

In response, the attorney general said that it was protesters who were concealing their identities when assailing officers.

“Those people are the ones who have really been wearing the mask and trying to cover their identities,” she said, citing the recent demonstrations in Los Angeles, against which Donald Trump deployed national guard units. “We’ve been finding them. We have been charging them with assault on a federal officer.”………

Pam Bondi denies knowing Ice agents wore masks during raids despite video evidence

At hearing, US attorney general claims she’s unaware of reports that officials have hid their faces during roundups

www.theguardian.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

After six months of aggressive immigration enforcement and promises to focus on deporting violent criminals, the Trump administration has arrested and detained a small fraction of the undocumented immigrants already known to Immigration and Customs Enforcement as having been convicted of sexual assault and homicide, internal ICE data obtained by NBC News shows.

The data is a tally of every person booked by ICE from Oct. 1 through May 31, part of which was during the Biden administration. It shows a total of 185,042 people arrested and booked into ICE facilities during that time; 65,041 of them have been convicted of crimes. The most common categories of crimes they committed were immigration and traffic offenses.

Almost half of the people currently in ICE custody have neither been convicted of nor charged with any crime, other ICE data shows………

The new data obtained by NBC News shows that from Oct. 1 to May 31, ICE arrested 752 people convicted of homicide and 1,693 people convicted of sexual assault, meaning that at the absolute most, the Trump administration has detained only 6% of the undocumented immigrants known to ICE to have been convicted of homicide and 11% of those known to ICE to have been convicted of sexual assault.

Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Tricia McLaughlin called the data inaccurate but did not provide raw numbers of arrests by criminal category.

“The premise of your question relies on inaccurate data. Secretary [Kristi] Noem has unleashed the U.S. Immigration Customs and Enforcement (ICE) to target the worst of the worst — including gang members, murderers, and rapists. In President Trump’s first 100 days, 75% of ICE arrests were criminal illegal aliens with convictions or pending charges,” McLaughlin said in response to NBC News.

Rep. Tony Gonzales, R-Texas, has also asked ICE for a breakdown of how many murderers, rapists and other criminals ICE has arrested, noting that the idea of going after the “worst of the worst” is popular among both Democrats and Republicans.

Gonzales said he wants ICE to use its tactical teams to focus on arresting the most violent criminals. “I want them doing that type of work, not raiding Home Depot and, you know, fending off violent riots,” he told NBC News this week.

And he argued that getting violent criminals off the streets is more important than high arrest numbers.


“One can say, you know, ‘I deported 1,000 people today,’ and someone can say, ‘Wow, you’re doing such a great job.’ Well, if, of those thousand people, none of them are convicted criminals ... have you truly made our community any more safe than it was before?”………….

Despite promise to remove 'worst of the worst,' ICE has arrested only 6% of known immigrant murderers

ICE told Congress in September that over 13,000 immigrants known to have committed murder remained at large. Since then, only 752 have been arrested.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Huntn]

After six months of aggressive immigration enforcement and promises to focus on deporting violent criminals, the Trump administration has arrested and detained a small fraction of the undocumented immigrants already known to Immigration and Customs Enforcement as having been convicted of sexual assault and homicide, internal ICE data obtained by NBC News shows.

The data is a tally of every person booked by ICE from Oct. 1 through May 31, part of which was during the Biden administration. It shows a total of 185,042 people arrested and booked into ICE facilities during that time; 65,041 of them have been convicted of crimes. The most common categories of crimes they committed were immigration and traffic offenses.

Almost half of the people currently in ICE custody have neither been convicted of nor charged with any crime, other ICE data shows………

The new data obtained by NBC News shows that from Oct. 1 to May 31, ICE arrested 752 people convicted of homicide and 1,693 people convicted of sexual assault, meaning that at the absolute most, the Trump administration has detained only 6% of the undocumented immigrants known to ICE to have been convicted of homicide and 11% of those known to ICE to have been convicted of sexual assault.

Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Tricia McLaughlin called the data inaccurate but did not provide raw numbers of arrests by criminal category.

“The premise of your question relies on inaccurate data. Secretary [Kristi] Noem has unleashed the U.S. Immigration Customs and Enforcement (ICE) to target the worst of the worst — including gang members, murderers, and rapists. In President Trump’s first 100 days, 75% of ICE arrests were criminal illegal aliens with convictions or pending charges,” McLaughlin said in response to NBC News.

Rep. Tony Gonzales, R-Texas, has also asked ICE for a breakdown of how many murderers, rapists and other criminals ICE has arrested, noting that the idea of going after the “worst of the worst” is popular among both Democrats and Republicans.

Gonzales said he wants ICE to use its tactical teams to focus on arresting the most violent criminals. “I want them doing that type of work, not raiding Home Depot and, you know, fending off violent riots,” he told NBC News this week.

And he argued that getting violent criminals off the streets is more important than high arrest numbers.


“One can say, you know, ‘I deported 1,000 people today,’ and someone can say, ‘Wow, you’re doing such a great job.’ Well, if, of those thousand people, none of them are convicted criminals ... have you truly made our community any more safe than it was before?”………….

Despite promise to remove 'worst of the worst,' ICE has arrested only 6% of known immigrant murderers

ICE told Congress in September that over 13,000 immigrants known to have committed murder remained at large. Since then, only 752 have been arrested.

www.nbcnews.com

And trying to create a public spectacle of “expeditious change” being sold as an improvement, people are being illegally kidnapped, having their civil rights violated, and their lives ruined, or put into jeopardy, because of the Head #&%@!. “Cheers!” toasts MAGA, too STUPID to understand who their real enemy is, or the concept of double edged swords. You know, as long as they are doing it to someone else…

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Denaturalization is the next step of the Republican plan.

This is what the Republican Party and its voters stand for.

 

[MT15]

And yet, nobody in the GOP will say anything about this. I believe Sam has warned us (he works for DNI, I think) that they will use “support for terrorism” as an excuse to round up citizens, and send them to camps. Just like they used false allegations of gang activity to send immigrants to a concentration camp in El Salvador.

If the leaders in the GOP don’t wake up soon and have their Goldwater moment, we are going exactly down the fascist path. Judging from what I have seen here and elsewhere online, I don’t think GOP voters are going to put up any kind of resistance to the evil that will come from this. None.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

And yet, nobody in the GOP will say anything about this. I believe Sam has warned us (he works for DNI, I think) that they will use “support for terrorism” as an excuse to round up citizens, and send them to camps. Just like they used false allegations of gang activity to send immigrants to a concentration camp in El Salvador.

If the leaders in the GOP don’t wake up soon and have their Goldwater moment, we are going exactly down the fascist path. Judging from what I have seen here and elsewhere online, I don’t think GOP voters are going to put up any kind of resistance to the evil that will come from this. None.

Their voters don't want them to come to that realization! The Republicans are following their voters instead of leading them as John McCain attempted to do during the 2008 campaign. Their voters rejected Romney because he failed to follow their lead. The lesson the Republican Party learned in 2012 was that they need to feed into the hate and fear of their voters.