Will “mass deportation” actually happen (10 Viewers)

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superchuck500

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It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 
So let the record show that @TampaJoe supports masked gunmen abducting people and sticking them in detention centers without letting anyone know were they are or letting them contact anyone or have due process of any kind.
I got to ask, why do you do this? @TampaJoe is simply advocating that it is a good idea to carry proper ID. That's it. How do you go from that, to claiming he supports masked gunmen abducting people and sticking them in detention centers?

It's not only you, though... it's most everyone on this board do this sort of projection, so don't feel singled out.

You contradict yourself and circle right back to not accepting the truth that financial privilege is a truth which makes it harder for people who aren't in your financially privileged position to get the ID's that you falsely claim are easy for anyone to get.

In México, every citizen 18 and over, financially unprivileged or otherwise, carries one of these:

1750616730534.png


Heck, even Mexicans living in the U.S. have one. I did. Can't vote without it. It is accepted in every State, at every level of government, and it's become the de facto ID for anything and everything you do,: getting a job, getting married, getting any sort of license/permit... to get one, you have to bring papers that prove who you are, such as a passport or a birth certificate.

Are the "financially unprivileged" in the U.S. so poor and/or so stupid that they cannot get a proper ID? And if the issue is money, all of those billionaires who pump millions of dollars into presidential campaigns, can't they get together and help? If Elon was handing $1M dollar checks to voters in Wisconsin, why can't a fund be created for poor people that would pay the $50 for a proper ID?

And before you go there, no, I do not "support masked gunmen abducting people and sticking them in detention centers without letting anyone know were they are or letting them contact anyone or have due process of any kind."

But carrying proper ID anywhere in the world is a good idea. And sure, any authority can question the validity of any legal document anywhere in the world, especially customs/border patrols, which they routinely do around the globe, not just the U.S., but that doesn't mean that carrying proper ID is useless.
 
You're being illogical or in denial if you understand that financial privilege is a truth, but also hold the false belief that everyone can easily spend the money needed to pay for the ID's that are accepted as proof of citizenship.

For instance, my passport expired two years ago, I've not been able to afford to renew it yet. Some people don't even have the transportation to go where they have to go to get an ID that proves citizenship or internet access to do it online. Not everyone has the financial privileges that you have, TampaJoe.
I didn’t say financial privilege is a “truth”. I’m not even sure what it means. I also didn’t say that everyone needed proof of citizenship.

What I DID say was that your statement that the “truth didn’t need my buy in” was true. That is it.
 
Okay, TampaJoe, maybe I misunderstood you, so let's get right down to it without any purseyfooting around it.

Is it wrong for masked gunmen abducting people and sticking them in detention centers without letting anyone know were they are or letting them contact anyone or have due process of any kind.?

Will you vote against anyone who supports or allows masked gunmen abducting people and sticking them in detention centers without letting anyone know were they are or letting them contact anyone or have due process of any kind?

Here's your easy and simple chance to set the record straight on what you do and don't support. The ball is in your court.

I will address your thoughts on Nazi comparisons once I hear your answer to the above two questions.
Okay. No “purseyfooting”.

I expect law enforcement officers to follow the law which includes the constitution.

If you think that makes me a Nazi sympathizer you are too ignorant to warrant further discussion.

Plain enough?
 
In México...
The US isn't Mexico and things are the not the same in the US as in Mexico. Some people in the US can't easily get an ID that is accepted as proof of citizenship. There are several reasons why. Nothing that is said by anyone will change that fact.
 
I expect law enforcement officers to follow the law which includes the constitution.
Do you think that masked gunmen abducting people without following due process is Constitutional?

If you think that makes me a Nazi sympathizer you are too ignorant to warrant further discussion.
I'm not ignorant and I've very forthcoming. I don't make vague, ambiguous, and circular statements.

Plain enough?
Not plain at all. You dodged the question with your vague answer. You had a chance to be direct and forthcoming that you don't support masked gunmen abducting people and violating due process. You chose not to. There's only one reason why I think you would choose the dodge the question with a vague non-answer.
 
Do you think that masked gunmen abducting people without following due process is Constitutional?


I'm not ignorant and I've very forthcoming. I don't make vague, ambiguous, and circular statements.


Not plain at all. You dodged the question with your vague answer. You had a chance to be direct and forthcoming that you don't support masked gunmen abducting people and violating due process. You chose not to. There's only one reason why I think you would choose the dodge the question with a vague non-answer.
If you aren’t ignorant then perhaps you are familiar with the due process clause in the Constitution.

I said quite clearly that I expect law enforcement follow the Constitution.

Now if that isn’t plain enough for you, then I can’t help you.
 
Okay. No “purseyfooting”.

I expect law enforcement officers to follow the law which includes the constitution.

If you think that makes me a Nazi sympathizer you are too ignorant to warrant further discussion.

Plain enough?
Yet we see evidence that law enforcement officers are breaking the law and ignoring the constitution daily, and you defend it here. You minimize it. Say it’s no big deal, you don’t know what the problem is.

So you can see the disconnect. The illogical stance you are taking.

Oh, I already live in a country where people like you make up a portion of the citizenry. So I already live in the country you described.
 
I said quite clearly that I expect law enforcement follow the Constitution.

Now if that isn’t plain enough for you...
But you refuse to say if you think that masked gunmen abducting people without due process is constitutional or not. You keep ducking and avoiding the plain and straightforward question I'm asking you.

Why do you keep avoiding giving a plain and direct answer on whether or not that you think what ICE is doing is constitutional or not? It's a real easy thing to do. I don't think it's constitutional. See how easy it is?
 
Yet we see evidence that law enforcement officers are breaking the law and ignoring the constitution daily, and you defend it here. You minimize it. Say it’s no big deal, you don’t know what the problem is.

So you can see the disconnect. The illogical stance you are taking.

Oh, I already live in a country where people like you make up a portion of the citizenry. So I already live in the country you described.
I don’t defend it. I expect them to follow the law. If they don’t follow the law I expect the courts to hold them accountable. That’s where evidence is presented and cases are made.

I don’t accept everything you claim as unconstitutional or illegal to in fact be unconstitutional or illegal. We have processes to address such matters. I trust in those processes.

By the way, I never said violating the constitution was no big deal. If you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.
 
But you refuse to say if you think that masked gunmen abducting people without due process is constitutional or not. You keep ducking and avoiding the plain and straightforward question I'm asking you.

Why do you keep avoiding giving a plain and direct answer on whether or not that you think what ICE is doing is constitutional or not? It's a real easy thing to do. I don't think it's constitutional. See how easy it is?
I don’t opine on such things without all the facts. Folks like you rarely present all the facts.

I expect law enforcement to follow the law. We have courts which determine whether due process requirements were violated. I have a feeling they will want more facts in making that determination than what you have presented.
 
Folks like you rarely present all the facts.
Let's set aside whether it's happening or not, and assume it's not happening. Let's set aside whether it's legal or constitutional.

Do you think that it would be okay for masked government gunmen to abduct people and not inform anyone of their abductions or what's happened to then after they were abducted? I'm not asking you what you expect them to do, I'm asking you if you would be okay with them doing it.

By the way, what exact kind of folk do you think I am, TampaJoe? What more facts do you need that haven't already been posted in this thread by many posters, not just me?
 
Let's set aside whether it's happening or not, and assume it's not happening. Let's set aside whether it's legal or constitutional.

Do you think that it would be okay for masked government gunmen to abduct people and not inform anyone of their abductions or what's happened to then after they were abducted? I'm not asking you what you expect them to do, I'm asking you if you would be okay with them doing it.

By the way, what exact kind of folk do you think I am, TampaJoe? What more facts do you need that haven't already been posted in this thread by many posters, not just me?
I think that LEO need to identify themselves as law enforcement at the time of arrest. I don’t have an issue with them wearing masks and do not think the fact they are masked is unconstitutional.

As to whether due process requirements have been met depends on the specifics of the case. The fact someone has been arrested or detained doesn’t mean their due process rights were violated. I have no knowledge of any underlying facts regarding the reason for the arrest, the legal status of the arrestee/detainee, whether or not they have received their due process prior to arrest.

I don’t and won’t hold myself out as some kind of expert on immigration law and/or due process. I expect law enforcement and the courts to follow the law and the constitution. It is up to them to determine, based on all the relevant facts and evidence, to make a determination as to whether the law has been violated and/or whether the defendants due process rights have been violated.

I expect law enforcement to follow the law. I’m okay with that.
 
I don’t defend it. I expect them to follow the law. If they don’t follow the law I expect the courts to hold them accountable. That’s where evidence is presented and cases are made.

I don’t accept everything you claim as unconstitutional or illegal to in fact be unconstitutional or illegal. We have processes to address such matters. I trust in those processes.

By the way, I never said violating the constitution was no big deal. If you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.

Why are you talking about the constitution, legality, and the courts? The whole point of this is to arrest, and then immediatly deport. That way there is no due process.

Under the Bush/Obama/Biden system all had this flowing through immigration courts. ICE is now arresting these people as they show up for their hearings.

I'm asking once again why is TampaJoe spending hours debating topics on this forum without understanding the basics of the situation.

HELLO? https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-adm...r-bring-deportation-planes/story?id=119857181

 
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I think that LEO need to identify themselves as law enforcement at the time of arrest.
There have been a whole lot of verified instances of alleged ICE agents not identifying themselves. I'm glad to hear your not okay with the fact alleged ICE agents are not identifying themselves.

I don’t have an issue with them wearing masks...
That's what I thought and appreciate being forthright about it.

As to whether due process requirements have been met depends on the specifics of the case.
I'm not asking you if you think it's happening or not. I'm asking if you would be okay with it if it did happen,. I'm also not asking you if you think it's legal or constitutional. I'm just asking you if you think it's an okay thing to do.

I was very clear about what I was asking. I'll ask again.

Would it be okay with you if ICE abducted someone, didn't notify anyone that the person was abducted, wouldn't let anyone know were the person was being detained, wouldn't confirm to anyone asking if they had that person in custody or wouldn't let that person contact anyone, including legal representation?
 
I don’t defend it. I expect them to follow the law. If they don’t follow the law I expect the courts to hold them accountable. That’s where evidence is presented and cases are made.

I don’t accept everything you claim as unconstitutional or illegal to in fact be unconstitutional or illegal. We have processes to address such matters. I trust in those processes.

By the way, I never said violating the constitution was no big deal. If you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.
I didn’t say you did. I said you are defending what most people consider to be violations as no big deal. We showed you accounts of people being detained without identification. Citizens being detained. You remain unfazed.
 
Why are you talking about the constitution, legality, and the courts? The whole point of this is to arrest, and then immediatly deport. That way there is no due process.

Under the Bush/Obama/Biden system all had this flowing through immigration courts. ICE is now arresting these people as they show up for their hearings.

I'm asking once again why is TampaJoe spending hours debating topics on this forum without understanding the basics of the situation.

HELLO? https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-adm...r-bring-deportation-planes/story?id=119857181

I hear you and agree except for one thing. We don't actually know what's happening to these people once they are abducted. There is no verification or confirmation that they are being deported. Some investigations and inquirers indicate that a lot of them are being crammed into detention centers and held indefinitely under inhumane conditions. One person recently died while in transit from abduction to detention.
 
And the transport is being carried out by third party vendors with zero identification-not even license plates on their unmarked vans.

That any American who believes in our system of laws and our bill of rights would defend this is just insane to me.
 

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