Will “mass deportation” actually happen (6 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[Dragon]

This is the seminal lie told by all GOP. And bought hook, line and sinker by some of our conservative members (not you Dave, love ya). It’s straight out of the authoritarian playbook. Even Trump doesn’t believe it, although I think Stephen Miller probably does. He’s really sick. (so is Trump but in a different way).

Great discussion on what is happening here.

He is very good at disecting what is happening. I was at one of his lectures at SDU (southern Danish University) about totalitarian regiemes and he was incredible

 

[Dragon]

I'm not referring to closing the border completely. I'm talking about border crossings in general. Under Joe Biden, we were at all time high levels of migrants crossing the southern border. Biden repealed some of Trump's policies from his first term and did things different. This allowed for a "more open border" and folks took advantage of it. It became a real problem heading into the 2024 election.

Something to note: Some may not like the tactics Trump is using to secure the border. Folks are not treated as nicely. It's harder for asylum seekers to actually be granted admission into the US. The list goes on.....but the fact is his policies have dramatically decreased the wave of illegal immigrants crossing the southern border without getting Congress involved.

You forgot the fact that many of the "stay in Mexico" people were allowed access once the emergency was no longer a valid reason for keeping them there. There was a baglog of asylum seekers that arrived once the emergency laws were removed.

 

[Bayouboy]

There was a border problem under Biden, because he inherited the same problem every previous president has. Biden and members of both parties in Congress put together an immigration reform bill that would have made the border problem much better. Trump bullied Republicans into changing their votes to kill the bill.

That's solely on Trump and is in no way Biden's doing.

Killing the bipartisan border bill was solely on Trump. I've stated that in my posts. But Biden did have looser border polices during his presidency and the illegal crossing numbers reflected that.

 

[RobF]

Something to note: Some may not like the tactics Trump is using to secure the border. Folks are not treated as nicely. It's harder for asylum seekers to actually be granted admission into the US. The list goes on.....but the fact is his policies have dramatically decreased the wave of illegal immigrants crossing the southern border without getting Congress involved.

I think the main criticism of the 'tactics' is that they extend into being inhumane and illegal, rather than being merely "not as nice" and "harder".

And I hate to say it, but there's some real "Mussolini made the trains run on time" energy trying to 'but' that with "look at the numbers!".

 

[Bayouboy]

The numbers don't lie. Go ahead and look up more graphs on the subject. Joe Biden had a relaxed border policy and illegals took advantage of it. Trump took advantage of it as well making it a focal point of his campaign. Like it or not, it was a factor in the 2024 election.

 

[UriUT]

The numbers don't lie. Go ahead and look up more graphs on the subject. Joe Biden had a relaxed border policy and illegals took advantage of it. Trump took advantage of it as well making it a focal point of his campaign. Like it or not, it was a factor in the 2024 election.

Apprehension implies border patrols are stopping people?????

Does that scream open border to you?

 

[Bayouboy]

I think the main criticism of the 'tactics' is that they extend into being inhumane and illegal, rather than being merely "not as nice" and "harder".

And I hate to say it, but there's some real "Mussolini made the trains run on time" energy trying to 'but' that with "look at the numbers!".

I don't disagree with what you are saying. Not all Americans are cool with treating asylum seekers and folks running across with their entire families like dogs or vermin. I'm suggesting Biden had the opportunity to tighten the border somewhat before the 2024 election that could have helped his standing. As the graph I posted illustrates, border crossings were a problem. Not just MAGA propaganda.

 

[Bayouboy]

Apprehension implies border patrols are stopping people?????

Does that scream open border to you?

Are you suggesting that apprehensions are WAY DOWN today under Trump means Biden had a better handle on the southern border? C'mon man. You folks know we had a problem. I'm not sure why you can't just admit what I'm saying is true.

 

[RobF]

I don't disagree with what you are saying. Not all Americans are cool with treating asylum seekers and folks running across with their entire families like dogs or vermin. I'm suggesting Biden had the opportunity to tighten the border somewhat before the 2024 election that could have helped his standing. As the graph I posted illustrates, border crossings were a problem. Not just MAGA propaganda.

But that's a choice to frame it like that.

Lots of people attempting to cross a border and being apprehended for doing so doesn't itself indicate an open or even a loose border policy; they're being apprehended after all. What's being inferred and then presented as the framing is that they're attempting to cross the border because it's 'loose' and not 'tight'. This is then presented as a 'problem', but what that problem is, specifically, is often left undefined.

But that framing doesn't really work. Generally, people are attempting to cross the border not because it's 'loose' rather than 'tight', but because they have some reason to want to be on the other side of the border. And then there's a bunch of different reasons; escape, work, family, smuggling (guess that could technically come under work...), etc., and those indicate a whole bunch of various 'problems'; instability and poverty in other nations, relative levels of employment, internal markets that encourages and even rely upon low-paid labour that isn't met internally and isn't sufficiently provided for through legal migration, internal demand for illegal goods (drugs), and so on.

Which of those is the 'problem' being referred to? And do apprehension numbers dropping really indicate it's been solved?

Or is the 'problem' just "It's a lot of people! So it's a problem! It's overwhelming!" But that ignores that people provide both supply and demand. As mentioned internal markets can depend upon them, for just one example, so their absence would also be a problem. So is the number in itself really a problem, or is it actually a lot more complex than that?

 

[UriUT]

Are you suggesting that apprehensions are WAY DOWN today under Trump means Biden had a better handle on the southern border? C'mon man. You folks know we had a problem. I'm not sure why you can't just admit what I'm saying is true.

Fact-checking the Trump White House's claims about illegal immigration dropping sharply

Illegal immigration at the U.S. southern border has dropped since Trump entered the White House. But the White House’s data use is misleading.

www.pbs.org

Additionally, immigration experts have often told us that weather patterns, such as extremely cold or hot conditions, changes in administration and policies or political shifts in people’s home countries can affect whether someone migrates. So it’s uncertain what causes a drop or how long it will last.

Another reason why more people seek entry is the economic opportunity.....all I am concluding is more people want entry, and are denied. Border security working....

Breaking Down the Immigration Figures - FactCheck.org

Encounters on the southern border of those trying to enter the U.S. without authorization have gone up significantly under President Joe Biden. Government statistics show that in the initial processing of millions of encounters, 2.5 million people have been released into the U.S. and 2.8 million...

www.factcheck.org

 

[coldseat]

Congress has “Plenary Power” over immigration. States Rights do not apply.

Tell that to Texas and Abbot. He's made a big, stupid, wasteful stink about overriding federal authority on immigration.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Killing the bipartisan border bill was solely on Trump. I've stated that in my posts. But Biden did have looser border polices during his presidency and the illegal crossing numbers reflected that.

Only if you look at the raw numbers without doing a deeper dive to understand what was going on. I don't believe the ends justify the means, so I give no credit to Trump for the decrease in illegal crossings, because of the methods he's using to achieve. A police chief could reduce crime to zero in a city if they had their officers create probable cause to execute anyone they suspect was committing a crime. That wouldn't be something to brag about, now would it?

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Are you suggesting that apprehensions are WAY DOWN today under Trump means Biden had a better handle on the southern border? C'mon man. You folks know we had a problem. I'm not sure why you can't just admit what I'm saying is true.

You do know there's a difference between the number of people crossing illegally and the number of people being caught while trying to cross illegally?

You assume the detentions are down, because less people are crossing. There are two other factors that can decrease detentions. The first is that the consequences from getting caught get higher, so those crossing illegally make more of an effort and use new tactics not to get caught. Fear is a powerful motivator. The other is that if you don't try to catch them you won't catch them. Of you send your agents to where they aren't crossing, then you won't catch any of them crossing.

Remember Trump's logic of, "if we don't test for COVID then there won't be any new COVID cases?" I wouldn't put it past the Trump administration to intentionally not catch people so they can say, "look detentions are down, so the number of people crossing are down." I don't trust any statistics that come out of the Trump administration about anything. They are known habitual liars, deceivers and manipulators. Trust them at your own peril.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Are you suggesting that apprehensions are WAY DOWN today under Trump means Biden had a better handle on the southern border? C'mon man. You folks know we had a problem. I'm not sure why you can't just admit what I'm saying is true.

Because what you're saying isn't entirely true and it isn't as simplistic as you say it is.

 

[Bayouboy]

Folks here may not like the methods or tactics, but Trump has substantially reduced border crossings through various means. The numbers don't lie. Frame it however you want. Make whatever excuse you need for the previous administration, but the crossings are down. Way down.

Now, we can agree life is much harder for someone seeking asylum. We can agree children and families are more at risk. All of that is true. It's also true that less people are crossing the border because of the policies Trump has put into place since taking office. A lot of the details are outlined in the attached article. I don't know how to imbed like you all. lol

Newsweek article

 

[Bayouboy]

You do know there's a difference between the number of people crossing illegally and the number of people being caught while trying to cross illegally?

Yes, but the data is relevant and relatable.

 

[coldseat]

Folks here may not like the methods or tactics, but Trump has substantially reduced border crossings through various means. The numbers don't lie. Frame it however you want. Make whatever excuse you need for the previous administration, but the crossings are down. Way down.

Now, we can agree life is much harder for someone seeking asylum. We can agree children and families are more at risk. All of that is true. It's also true that less people are crossing the border because of the policies Trump has put into place since taking office. A lot of the details are outlined in the attached article. I don't know how to imbed like you all. lol

Newsweek article

The numbers came down before Trump took office. That's actually Biden's accomplishment, if you wan to call it that. The timeline also doesn't lie.

 

[Bayouboy]

The numbers were going down under Biden leading up to the election. This is absolutely true. But through various means (executive orders, etc.) Trump doubled down efforts to curb illegal crossings when he took office. The numbers plummeted compared to when Biden was still in office.

You can be suggesting that the low numbers today are because of Biden, right?