What happens to the Republican Party now? (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[superchuck500]

So many paid protesters . . .

 

[Optimus Prime]

So many paid protesters . . .

Manchild isn't even a good description

There is something very wrong with this guy (and very obviously so, yet people voted for him anyway, and fork everyone who did)

 

[Optimus Prime]

Packed Pacs: how billionaires in the US are bankrolling Republicans at the state level

Republicans are relying on ‘nameless’ donors who want to push a rightwing agenda and gain long-term hegemony

www.theguardian.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

A Hispanic Democrat from New York slammed the main Republican congressional campaign arm for calling him an “illegal immigrant.”

Rep. Adriano Espaillat, who is the chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, slammed a tweet from the Republican National Congressional Committee.

“The Republican Party has been invaded by xenophobic feelings and xenophobes,” he told The Independent. “I think that it furthers explain that any that anybody that doesn't look like them, they consider to be an illegal. So that is tragic.”

Espaillat delivered the Spanish response to President Donald Trump’s joint address to Congress. Espailliat at one point called Trump’s immigration policy a “reign of terror.”……

Democrat slams ‘xenophobic’ GOP tweet calling him an ‘illegal immigrant’

‘The Republican Party has been invaded by xenophobic feelings and xenophobes,’ Adriano Espaillat tells The Independent

www.independent.co.uk

 

[RobF]

John Burn-Murdoch at the FT has been doing some analysis on the World Values Survey; that's a global research project that's been carrying out national surveys into values and beliefs since 1981.

What he's done is drill down to the different political parties in the data, showing shifting positions over time. In particular, the shifting position of the US right. This is something we obviously have all observed anecdotally, but it's interesting to see a somewhat objective measure of it:



Click through for the thread.

 

[bird]

A Hispanic Democrat from New York slammed the main Republican congressional campaign arm for calling him an “illegal immigrant.”

Rep. Adriano Espaillat, who is the chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, slammed a tweet from the Republican National Congressional Committee.

“The Republican Party has been invaded by xenophobic feelings and xenophobes,” he told The Independent. “I think that it furthers explain that any that anybody that doesn't look like them, they consider to be an illegal. So that is tragic.”

Espaillat delivered the Spanish response to President Donald Trump’s joint address to Congress. Espailliat at one point called Trump’s immigration policy a “reign of terror.”……

Democrat slams ‘xenophobic’ GOP tweet calling him an ‘illegal immigrant’

‘The Republican Party has been invaded by xenophobic feelings and xenophobes,’ Adriano Espaillat tells The Independent

www.independent.co.uk

Invaded by xenophobia? Nah. Xenophobia has been part of the Republican Party for decades.

As for the NRCC and their post? Self-awareness is not a quality of Republicans. Elon Musk was illegal. But he is OK because of some characteristic…(shhh) he is White.

 

[efil4]

John Burn-Murdoch at the FT has been doing some analysis on the World Values Survey; that's a global research project that's been carrying out national surveys into values and beliefs since 1981.

What he's done is drill down to the different political parties in the data, showing shifting positions over time. In particular, the shifting position of the US right. This is something we obviously have all observed anecdotally, but it's interesting to see a somewhat objective measure of it:



Click through for the thread.

I just finished as was coming to post after finding on X.

ITs eye-opening. Especially when you see it on a chart

 

[MT15]

This really really highlights IMO that Russia has made serious inroads in poisoning our country’s political landscape. And it has happened due to the conservatives surrendering their values.

Pertinent thought from a historian.

 

[coldseat]

This really really highlights IMO that Russia has made serious inroads in poisoning our country’s political landscape. And it has happened due to the conservatives surrendering their values.

Pertinent thought from a historian.

I don't really think liberals are refusing to believe the arc of progress is bending against them. That is very obvious. I think moderates are okay with that but refusing to believe the damage Trump is doing to the country. It will be too late before they accept what's plainly obvious.

 

[bird]

I don't really think liberals are refusing to believe the arc of progress is bending against them. That is very obvious. I think moderates are okay with that but refusing to believe the damage Trump is doing to the country. It will be too late before they accept what's plainly obvious.

I can’t argue.

That being said I do not believe in an arc of progress or in an arc of history bending toward justice. There is past and there is future. Humans live in the past and near past as now is a microsecond. Past wields much power as the psyche alters memories to make them palatable in combination with belief structures. This is where change impacts like a meteor.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Democrats voting to censure Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) for disrupting President Trump's speech to Congress.

• As Johnson read out the resolution censuring Green, dozens of House Democrats, primarily Black Caucus members and progressives, stood in the well of the House singing "We Shall Overcome."
• Johnson repeatedly banged the gavel and said, "The House will come to order," before putting the House in recess until the disruption subsided.

What they're saying: "Today, a group of House Democrats broke decorum during the censure of Rep. Al Green and, after multiple warnings, refused to heed [Johnson's] order," Rep. Andy Ogles (R-Tenn.) said in a post on X.

• Ogles said he is drafting privileged resolutions — which any member can force to a vote with or without support from leadership — to "remove each of them from their committees."
• "If you want to act like a child in the Halls of Congress, you will be treated like a child," Ogles said.

Zoom in: Ogles' two-page resolution says that "several Representatives should be removed from their committee assignments in light of conduct they exhibited on the floor," according to a copy obtained by Axios.

https://www.axios.com/2025/03/06/house-republican-democrats-committees-al-green

Remeber when the Dem's did the same in response to radical Republican outburst during Obama'a SotU Address? How about EVERY SotU Address that Biden gave?

'You lie': Republican Joe Wilson's outburst at Obama health speech

Congressman apologises after interrupting presidential address to Congress on reform plans

www.theguardian.com

Republicans repeatedly interrupt Biden during State of the Union address | CNN Politics

Republicans repeatedly heckled President Joe Biden during his State of the Union address on Tuesday night, ignoring the occasional shushes from House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

www.cnn.com

GOP Reps. Greene, Boebert heckle Biden throughout State of the Union address

Lawmakers booed Boebert when she interrupted Biden as he was about to speak of his son's death.

www.nbcnews.com

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/02/heckling-at-state-of-the-union-addresses/

 

[Optimus Prime]

President Donald Trump has recast our political landscape more than any figure in decades.
He’s jumbled the traditional coalitions we have become used to, yes — most notably by pulling working-class voters more toward the GOP and pushing more-educated voters toward the Democratic Party.

But as much as that, he’s caused the Republican Party to be defined by one man: himself. And nothing exemplifies that like that fact that Republicans have fared relatively well when he’s on the ballot (winning 2 of 3 presidential elections) and almost always poorly when he’s not. His voters just don’t turn out when they can’t vote for him.

So the question then becomes, what happens when the Trump era is over? What happens when this beacon for much of the country is no longer in the game? He’s term-limited in 2028, and Republicans will need someone to pick up his mantle.

Trump has suggestively floated seeking a third term in 2028, despite that currently being unconstitutional. Some have wagered he could run as vice president and effectively run the country despite not having the No. 1 job — similar to the arrangement that Russian President Vladimir Putin had for a time — or even get around the Constitution by ascending to the presidency when the Republican winner steps aside.

But let’s set aside those wild ideas for now. Who could grab hold of this party and carry it forward in 2028?

Below are the names that make the most sense.

10. Tucker Carlson​

Carlson has expressed little interest in ever running for president. And he’s a somewhat diminished figure in mainstream circles since his unceremonious exit from Fox News. But those mainstream circles matter less and less in the GOP, and no media figure riles the MAGA base like Carlson does. He also did crack the door to it last year, saying of a potential 2028 run: “Yeah, I don’t think I’d be very good at it. But I would do whatever I could to help.” At the same time, you have to wonder if Carlson’s increasingly extreme turn might turn off even many MAGA supporters, as it apparently did his Fox News superiors.

9. Vivek Ramaswamy​

The 2024 GOP presidential candidate’s big foray into government was supposed to be teaming up with Elon Musk to run the Department of Government Efficiency. Then he clashed with Musk and caused a stir by criticizing Americans’ work ethic and promoting skilled, legal immigration. He ultimately decided to run for Ohio governor in 2026 instead. The early polling suggests he’s a significant favorite to win the GOP primary, which would make him the favorite in the general election in red-leaning Ohio. It might be tough to turn around and run for president so shortly after winning, but Ramaswamy clearly has the ambition. And winning a governorship would legitimize someone often dismissed as a gadfly.

8. Kristi L. Noem​

It was just months ago that the then-South Dakota governor’s story about killing her dog and her bizarre recollection of purportedly meeting with Kim Jong Un seemed to sap any chance she had of becoming Trump’s running mate. But time does heal wounds in politics. She’s now been confirmed as Homeland Security secretary, and she’s clearly made a call to engage in the kind of performative politics that endear a politician to much of the GOP case. (A couple examples: She reportedly taunted Canada about becoming the 51st state while visiting the northern border, and she’s frequently been seen in attention-grabbing and militarized attire while playing up deportation efforts.) Right now the sharp drop in U.S.-Mexico border crossings is probably the best political story for the administration, and if that continues, perhaps voters could turn to Noem?…..

7. Glenn Youngkin….​

6. Nikki Haley…..​

5. Marco Rubio…..​

4. Ron DeSantis…..​

3. Brian Kemp……​

2. Donald Trump Jr.…..​

1. JD Vance……​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/03/08/10-republicans-who-could-be-trumps-heir-apparent-2028/

 

[bird]

President Donald Trump has recast our political landscape more than any figure in decades.
He’s jumbled the traditional coalitions we have become used to, yes — most notably by pulling working-class voters more toward the GOP and pushing more-educated voters toward the Democratic Party.

But as much as that, he’s caused the Republican Party to be defined by one man: himself. And nothing exemplifies that like that fact that Republicans have fared relatively well when he’s on the ballot (winning 2 of 3 presidential elections) and almost always poorly when he’s not. His voters just don’t turn out when they can’t vote for him.

So the question then becomes, what happens when the Trump era is over? What happens when this beacon for much of the country is no longer in the game? He’s term-limited in 2028, and Republicans will need someone to pick up his mantle.

Trump has suggestively floated seeking a third term in 2028, despite that currently being unconstitutional. Some have wagered he could run as vice president and effectively run the country despite not having the No. 1 job — similar to the arrangement that Russian President Vladimir Putin had for a time — or even get around the Constitution by ascending to the presidency when the Republican winner steps aside.

But let’s set aside those wild ideas for now. Who could grab hold of this party and carry it forward in 2028?

Below are the names that make the most sense.

10. Tucker Carlson​

Carlson has expressed little interest in ever running for president. And he’s a somewhat diminished figure in mainstream circles since his unceremonious exit from Fox News. But those mainstream circles matter less and less in the GOP, and no media figure riles the MAGA base like Carlson does. He also did crack the door to it last year, saying of a potential 2028 run: “Yeah, I don’t think I’d be very good at it. But I would do whatever I could to help.” At the same time, you have to wonder if Carlson’s increasingly extreme turn might turn off even many MAGA supporters, as it apparently did his Fox News superiors.

9. Vivek Ramaswamy​

The 2024 GOP presidential candidate’s big foray into government was supposed to be teaming up with Elon Musk to run the Department of Government Efficiency. Then he clashed with Musk and caused a stir by criticizing Americans’ work ethic and promoting skilled, legal immigration. He ultimately decided to run for Ohio governor in 2026 instead. The early polling suggests he’s a significant favorite to win the GOP primary, which would make him the favorite in the general election in red-leaning Ohio. It might be tough to turn around and run for president so shortly after winning, but Ramaswamy clearly has the ambition. And winning a governorship would legitimize someone often dismissed as a gadfly.

8. Kristi L. Noem​

It was just months ago that the then-South Dakota governor’s story about killing her dog and her bizarre recollection of purportedly meeting with Kim Jong Un seemed to sap any chance she had of becoming Trump’s running mate. But time does heal wounds in politics. She’s now been confirmed as Homeland Security secretary, and she’s clearly made a call to engage in the kind of performative politics that endear a politician to much of the GOP case. (A couple examples: She reportedly taunted Canada about becoming the 51st state while visiting the northern border, and she’s frequently been seen in attention-grabbing and militarized attire while playing up deportation efforts.) Right now the sharp drop in U.S.-Mexico border crossings is probably the best political story for the administration, and if that continues, perhaps voters could turn to Noem?…..

7. Glenn Youngkin….​

6. Nikki Haley…..​

5. Marco Rubio…..​

4. Ron DeSantis…..​

3. Brian Kemp……​

2. Donald Trump Jr.…..​

1. JD Vance……​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/03/08/10-republicans-who-could-be-trumps-heir-apparent-2028/

A confederacy of dunces.

 

[Saint Jack]

President Donald Trump has recast our political landscape more than any figure in decades.
He’s jumbled the traditional coalitions we have become used to, yes — most notably by pulling working-class voters more toward the GOP and pushing more-educated voters toward the Democratic Party.

But as much as that, he’s caused the Republican Party to be defined by one man: himself. And nothing exemplifies that like that fact that Republicans have fared relatively well when he’s on the ballot (winning 2 of 3 presidential elections) and almost always poorly when he’s not. His voters just don’t turn out when they can’t vote for him.

So the question then becomes, what happens when the Trump era is over? What happens when this beacon for much of the country is no longer in the game? He’s term-limited in 2028, and Republicans will need someone to pick up his mantle.

Trump has suggestively floated seeking a third term in 2028, despite that currently being unconstitutional. Some have wagered he could run as vice president and effectively run the country despite not having the No. 1 job — similar to the arrangement that Russian President Vladimir Putin had for a time — or even get around the Constitution by ascending to the presidency when the Republican winner steps aside.

But let’s set aside those wild ideas for now. Who could grab hold of this party and carry it forward in 2028?

Below are the names that make the most sense.

10. Tucker Carlson​

Carlson has expressed little interest in ever running for president. And he’s a somewhat diminished figure in mainstream circles since his unceremonious exit from Fox News. But those mainstream circles matter less and less in the GOP, and no media figure riles the MAGA base like Carlson does. He also did crack the door to it last year, saying of a potential 2028 run: “Yeah, I don’t think I’d be very good at it. But I would do whatever I could to help.” At the same time, you have to wonder if Carlson’s increasingly extreme turn might turn off even many MAGA supporters, as it apparently did his Fox News superiors.

9. Vivek Ramaswamy​

The 2024 GOP presidential candidate’s big foray into government was supposed to be teaming up with Elon Musk to run the Department of Government Efficiency. Then he clashed with Musk and caused a stir by criticizing Americans’ work ethic and promoting skilled, legal immigration. He ultimately decided to run for Ohio governor in 2026 instead. The early polling suggests he’s a significant favorite to win the GOP primary, which would make him the favorite in the general election in red-leaning Ohio. It might be tough to turn around and run for president so shortly after winning, but Ramaswamy clearly has the ambition. And winning a governorship would legitimize someone often dismissed as a gadfly.

8. Kristi L. Noem​

It was just months ago that the then-South Dakota governor’s story about killing her dog and her bizarre recollection of purportedly meeting with Kim Jong Un seemed to sap any chance she had of becoming Trump’s running mate. But time does heal wounds in politics. She’s now been confirmed as Homeland Security secretary, and she’s clearly made a call to engage in the kind of performative politics that endear a politician to much of the GOP case. (A couple examples: She reportedly taunted Canada about becoming the 51st state while visiting the northern border, and she’s frequently been seen in attention-grabbing and militarized attire while playing up deportation efforts.) Right now the sharp drop in U.S.-Mexico border crossings is probably the best political story for the administration, and if that continues, perhaps voters could turn to Noem?…..

7. Glenn Youngkin….​

6. Nikki Haley…..​

5. Marco Rubio…..​

4. Ron DeSantis…..​

3. Brian Kemp……​

2. Donald Trump Jr.…..​

1. JD Vance……​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/03/08/10-republicans-who-could-be-trumps-heir-apparent-2028/

That’s why I think it’s more likely the Dems win 28.
Don Jr. has the Trump name, but he doesn’t have that aura that Don Sr. has.
And Don Sr. barely won in 16 and 24.m

For comparison, I see Don Jr. as Dave Shula.

 

[Eeyore]

President Donald Trump has recast our political landscape more than any figure in decades.
He’s jumbled the traditional coalitions we have become used to, yes — most notably by pulling working-class voters more toward the GOP and pushing more-educated voters toward the Democratic Party.

But as much as that, he’s caused the Republican Party to be defined by one man: himself. And nothing exemplifies that like that fact that Republicans have fared relatively well when he’s on the ballot (winning 2 of 3 presidential elections) and almost always poorly when he’s not. His voters just don’t turn out when they can’t vote for him.

So the question then becomes, what happens when the Trump era is over? What happens when this beacon for much of the country is no longer in the game? He’s term-limited in 2028, and Republicans will need someone to pick up his mantle.

Trump has suggestively floated seeking a third term in 2028, despite that currently being unconstitutional. Some have wagered he could run as vice president and effectively run the country despite not having the No. 1 job — similar to the arrangement that Russian President Vladimir Putin had for a time — or even get around the Constitution by ascending to the presidency when the Republican winner steps aside.

But let’s set aside those wild ideas for now. Who could grab hold of this party and carry it forward in 2028?

Below are the names that make the most sense.

10. Tucker Carlson​

Carlson has expressed little interest in ever running for president. And he’s a somewhat diminished figure in mainstream circles since his unceremonious exit from Fox News. But those mainstream circles matter less and less in the GOP, and no media figure riles the MAGA base like Carlson does. He also did crack the door to it last year, saying of a potential 2028 run: “Yeah, I don’t think I’d be very good at it. But I would do whatever I could to help.” At the same time, you have to wonder if Carlson’s increasingly extreme turn might turn off even many MAGA supporters, as it apparently did his Fox News superiors.

9. Vivek Ramaswamy​

The 2024 GOP presidential candidate’s big foray into government was supposed to be teaming up with Elon Musk to run the Department of Government Efficiency. Then he clashed with Musk and caused a stir by criticizing Americans’ work ethic and promoting skilled, legal immigration. He ultimately decided to run for Ohio governor in 2026 instead. The early polling suggests he’s a significant favorite to win the GOP primary, which would make him the favorite in the general election in red-leaning Ohio. It might be tough to turn around and run for president so shortly after winning, but Ramaswamy clearly has the ambition. And winning a governorship would legitimize someone often dismissed as a gadfly.

8. Kristi L. Noem​

It was just months ago that the then-South Dakota governor’s story about killing her dog and her bizarre recollection of purportedly meeting with Kim Jong Un seemed to sap any chance she had of becoming Trump’s running mate. But time does heal wounds in politics. She’s now been confirmed as Homeland Security secretary, and she’s clearly made a call to engage in the kind of performative politics that endear a politician to much of the GOP case. (A couple examples: She reportedly taunted Canada about becoming the 51st state while visiting the northern border, and she’s frequently been seen in attention-grabbing and militarized attire while playing up deportation efforts.) Right now the sharp drop in U.S.-Mexico border crossings is probably the best political story for the administration, and if that continues, perhaps voters could turn to Noem?…..

7. Glenn Youngkin….​

6. Nikki Haley…..​

5. Marco Rubio…..​

4. Ron DeSantis…..​

3. Brian Kemp……​

2. Donald Trump Jr.…..​

1. JD Vance……​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/03/08/10-republicans-who-could-be-trumps-heir-apparent-2028/

It's cute that the author thinks that we'll ever have legitimate elections again.

 

[faceman]

President Donald Trump has recast our political landscape more than any figure in decades.
He’s jumbled the traditional coalitions we have become used to, yes — most notably by pulling working-class voters more toward the GOP and pushing more-educated voters toward the Democratic Party.

But as much as that, he’s caused the Republican Party to be defined by one man: himself. And nothing exemplifies that like that fact that Republicans have fared relatively well when he’s on the ballot (winning 2 of 3 presidential elections) and almost always poorly when he’s not. His voters just don’t turn out when they can’t vote for him.

So the question then becomes, what happens when the Trump era is over? What happens when this beacon for much of the country is no longer in the game? He’s term-limited in 2028, and Republicans will need someone to pick up his mantle.

Trump has suggestively floated seeking a third term in 2028, despite that currently being unconstitutional. Some have wagered he could run as vice president and effectively run the country despite not having the No. 1 job — similar to the arrangement that Russian President Vladimir Putin had for a time — or even get around the Constitution by ascending to the presidency when the Republican winner steps aside.

But let’s set aside those wild ideas for now. Who could grab hold of this party and carry it forward in 2028?

Below are the names that make the most sense.

10. Tucker Carlson​

Carlson has expressed little interest in ever running for president. And he’s a somewhat diminished figure in mainstream circles since his unceremonious exit from Fox News. But those mainstream circles matter less and less in the GOP, and no media figure riles the MAGA base like Carlson does. He also did crack the door to it last year, saying of a potential 2028 run: “Yeah, I don’t think I’d be very good at it. But I would do whatever I could to help.” At the same time, you have to wonder if Carlson’s increasingly extreme turn might turn off even many MAGA supporters, as it apparently did his Fox News superiors.

9. Vivek Ramaswamy​

The 2024 GOP presidential candidate’s big foray into government was supposed to be teaming up with Elon Musk to run the Department of Government Efficiency. Then he clashed with Musk and caused a stir by criticizing Americans’ work ethic and promoting skilled, legal immigration. He ultimately decided to run for Ohio governor in 2026 instead. The early polling suggests he’s a significant favorite to win the GOP primary, which would make him the favorite in the general election in red-leaning Ohio. It might be tough to turn around and run for president so shortly after winning, but Ramaswamy clearly has the ambition. And winning a governorship would legitimize someone often dismissed as a gadfly.

8. Kristi L. Noem​

It was just months ago that the then-South Dakota governor’s story about killing her dog and her bizarre recollection of purportedly meeting with Kim Jong Un seemed to sap any chance she had of becoming Trump’s running mate. But time does heal wounds in politics. She’s now been confirmed as Homeland Security secretary, and she’s clearly made a call to engage in the kind of performative politics that endear a politician to much of the GOP case. (A couple examples: She reportedly taunted Canada about becoming the 51st state while visiting the northern border, and she’s frequently been seen in attention-grabbing and militarized attire while playing up deportation efforts.) Right now the sharp drop in U.S.-Mexico border crossings is probably the best political story for the administration, and if that continues, perhaps voters could turn to Noem?…..

7. Glenn Youngkin….​

6. Nikki Haley…..​

5. Marco Rubio…..​

4. Ron DeSantis…..​

3. Brian Kemp……​

2. Donald Trump Jr.…..​

1. JD Vance……​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/03/08/10-republicans-who-could-be-trumps-heir-apparent-2028/

I wonder if Chris Christie would throw his hat into the ring again? I don't agree with many of his policies,but I
could tolerate him. I believe he'd bring sanity back to the oval office. The others you listed are clowns

 

[Saint Jack]

It's cute that the author thinks that we'll ever have legitimate elections again.

I don’t think it’ll get to that point. Trump will leave kicking and screaming, but he will leave.
Personally, it’s my belief that there’s a growing sect of Republicans that are counting down the days till they can separate from the Trump cycle entirely.

But I’ll go with this scenario. The U.S. is too valuable.
If Trump doesn’t leave, other countries will come in and force him out.

 

[RobF]

I don’t think it’ll get to that point. Trump will leave kicking and screaming, but he will leave.
Personally, it’s my belief that there’s a growing sect of Republicans that are counting down the days till they can separate from the Trump cycle entirely.

I'd like to think this, but the flaw with it is that they had the opportunity to do this post January 6th. They were publicly condemning him, speaking out against him, but when it came down to it, only ten of them in the House voted for impeaching him, and and only 7 of them in the Senate. 197 voted no in the House and 43 in the Senate.

I don't think it's better now. I mean, I'm sure a bunch of them would be happy to see the Trump era end, but are any of them willing to stand up for it? The answer would appear to be repeatedly, no. It's an open question as to what, if anything, would be a stretch too far.