What happens to the Republican Party now? (1 Viewer)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[Paul]

The problematic (more like delusional) idea is that a country of 320,000,000+ people in a global economy could live by 19th century small town rules.

This is the best post of your life! Congratulations. Yes, libertarians do not want a nannie state. At least they are not authoritarians.

 

[MT15]

The problematic (more like delusional) idea is that a country of 320,000,000+ people in a global economy could live by 19th century small town rules.

Exactly, I feel like we have a whole history of living under those rules, and the results weren’t great for the majority of the people.

 

[zztop]

I like to travel between the left wing and right wing echo chambers. You should try. The more important question is: Do you disagree with these words regardless of where they come from?

The dignity of the individual under libertarianism is a dignity that enhances social well‐being. Libertarianism is good not just for individuals but for societies. The positive basis of libertarian social analysis is methodological individualism, the recognition that only individuals act. The ethical or normative basis of libertarianism is respect for the dignity and worth of every (other) individual. This is expressed in the philosopher Immanuel Kant’s dictum that each person is to be treated not merely as a means but as an end in himself.

CATO

what is their definition of dignity
why would it only happen under libertarianism
how or in what way would it enhance social well being
how or in what way would it be good for individuals and societies
what are the positive basis of libertarianism

I could go on and on, but these are just empty words to me. And considering the SOURCE of where it comes and association with Koch family etc. it is all just to push their agenda.
I am not bipolar so no, I don't go all over the spectrum like you do, unless I am looking for a dose of insanity from faux news, newmax etc.
But even if I did spend more time there, never would there be a moment where I go "that Tucker Carlson sure has a valid point".

 

[Paul]

Exactly, I feel like we have a whole history of living under those rules, and the results weren’t great for the majority of the people.

I do not think you guys understand the libertarian mind set. It is basically live and let live. I obviously do not agree with many points of libertarianism since I believe some people actually benefit from government programs. Nevertheless, I can see the good bits. There is a bit of libertarian in any good old fashion liberal. For a left winger libertarians are Satan, I get that.

 

[MT15]

You don’t “get” my POV at all, respectfully.

Unfettered capitalism is what libertarians would support. We’ve had that. It led to robber barons, child labor, cruel and dangerous workplaces, sweatshops, etc.

Power would largely be consolidated and those without power would be at the mercy of those with power.

No thanks.

And yes, I’m ignoring the “good bits” because they are not exclusive to libertarians and the negative “bits” wouldn‘t be worth it.

 

[Paul]

what is their definition of dignity
why would it only happen under libertarianism

The dignity of an individual is best enhanced with self reliance and accomplishments. The dignity of an individual is diminished when that individual is dependent on others.

how or in what way would it enhance social well being
how or in what way would it be good for individuals and societies

It would promote self reliance rather than the nannie state.

what are the positive basis of libertarianism

To live and let live. To treat each person as an individual and not as a member of a group.

I am not bipolar so no, I don't go all over the spectrum like you do, unless I am looking for a dose of insanity from faux news, newmax etc.

I know you guys live in your echo chambers, but it is helpful to explore the other side. Once you understand the opposing perspective you can actually formulate a better cohesive argument for your side.

 

[Paul]

You don’t “get” my POV at all, respectfully.

Unfettered capitalism is what libertarians would support. We’ve had that. It led to robber barons, child labor, cruel and dangerous workplaces, sweatshops, etc.

Power would largely be consolidated and those without power would be at the mercy of those with power.

No thanks.

And yes, I’m ignoring the “good bits” because they are not exclusive to libertarians and the negative “bits” wouldn‘t be worth it.

I 100% agree. Capitalism with no regulation would be like the Lion in the jungle eating Bambi all day long. I am speaking about the concepts of live and let live, individualism, and self reliance. I also believe they have the cure for racism by treating all comers as individuals rather than as members of a group.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I do not think you guys understand the libertarian mind set. It is basically live and let live. I obviously do not agree with many points of libertarianism since I believe some people actually benefit from government programs. Nevertheless, I can see the good bits. There is a bit of libertarian in any good old fashion liberal. For a left winger libertarians are Satan, I get that.

I am speaking only for myself here when I say that I understand the libertarian mindset. I also reject it because it is childishly simplistic and, at its very core, selfish.

 

[Paul]

I am speaking only for myself here when I say that I understand the libertarian mindset. I also reject it because it is childishly simplistic and, at its very core, selfish.

CM: The words childishly simplistic, and, and selfish are not arguments. They are derogatory terms.

 

[MT15]

Oh good lord, Paul. You tend to ignore arguments, and cm’s post isn’t being derogatory as much as it is relating his opinion. Just as you’re entitled to your opinion, I’m entitled to think it’s unreasonable and pie-in-the-sky thinking.

 

[UriUT]

Wow folks. You stepped into it. Look, I take zero regard for someone claiming to be an expert at everything while googling everything.

When challenged on the weight of argentina's porfolio, he went and looked up that phrase. The first hit was on argentina's starvation and he responded to SS regarding that. Great yeah coming from a capitalist fanboy?

Again, I lightly skimmed thru the the posts and again I see googling. I know what libertarianism is. I've learned it back in the ole high school days and I'm sure the definition hasn't changed. I care not debate a DEFINITION.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

CM: The words childishly simplistic, and, and selfish are not arguments. They are derogatory terms.

And your post is a stupid meme, so what's your point?

I gave my opinion of libertarianism. It's the kind of thing most high schoolers think they've unearthed and are now destined to bring to the masses, only to realize a few years later that it's ridiculous and stupid. I know because I was that guy. I proudly identified as a Libertarian for about a year before I realized how inherently selfish the entire thing is.

Like MT15 pointed out, all of these great parts of libertarianism you espouse are not exclusive to said selfish party. Their motto might as well be, "I've got mine, so fork you." To quote John Rogers:

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

 

[zztop]

I know you guys live in your echo chambers, but it is helpful to explore the other side. Once you understand the opposing perspective you can actually formulate a better cohesive argument for your side.

ah the good ol' echo chamber clap back. Next you'll be throwing around other words like tribalism and straw man and anecdotes
Do you know anything about the Koch brothers?
I've seen enough to know that there is nothing "helpful" in inundating myself with certain groups

edit: to complete our bingo card, look out for: race ID politics, Latin America, I’m an outsider, McWhorter

 

[bdb13]

And your post is a stupid meme, so what's your point?

I gave my opinion of libertarianism. It's the kind of thing most high schoolers think they've unearthed and are now destined to bring to the masses, only to realize a few years later that it's ridiculous and stupid. I know because I was that guy. I proudly identified as a Libertarian for about a year before I realized how inherently selfish the entire thing is.

Like MT15 pointed out, all of these great parts of libertarianism you espouse are not exclusive to said selfish party. Their motto might as well be, "I've got mine, so fork you." To quote John Rogers:

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

Loved me some Ron Paul back in 2007-2008 when I was like 20 and yeah I felt like I was on to something.. I think I was probably over it entirely by 2010.

 

[Paul]

And your post is a stupid meme, so what's your point?

I gave my opinion of libertarianism. It's the kind of thing most high schoolers think they've unearthed and are now destined to bring to the masses, only to realize a few years later that it's ridiculous and stupid. I know because I was that guy. I proudly identified as a Libertarian for about a year before I realized how inherently selfish the entire thing is.

Like MT15 pointed out, all of these great parts of libertarianism you espouse are not exclusive to said selfish party. Their motto might as well be, "I've got mine, so fork you." To quote John Rogers:

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

CM:

I am not a libertarian, but I admire the concept of live and let live, individualism, and self-reliance. Otherwise, I am not a fan of the rest. Each doctrine has something that is valuable including both socialism and capitalism. According to Haidt (who has study libertarians, lefties and righties) libertarians have the least empathy for others.

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[MT15]

This rivals Trump’s stupidity:

 

[samiam5211]

Libertarians and Marxists are pretty much the same. They all believe that people will always respect everyone else.

Both systems are easily taken over by those willing to abuse others.