What happens to the Republican Party now? (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[coldseat]

This makes zero sense - everyone with half a brain knows that if you don’t detect problems early the cost to deal with them rises exponentially when a failure happens. That just about applies to everything, and human health is no exception.

It makes sense from the Conservative Christian Republican view. Us gays are immoral sub-humans that invite sexual plagues and diseases because of immorality that puts them and their precious children at harm by spreading the evil doctrine of privacy and sexual freedom. They, as pure Christians in the image of Jesus, should not have to "subsidize" preventative health care that's meant to protect immoral gays from diseases. For them, it would be better if we got disease that resulted from our immorality and died because they really don't care about our well being. They just want to create a culture of fear around sex and LGBTQ people that forces us back into hiding and the puritanical lifestyles of the '50's so that their way of life and righteous values can have cultural dominance.

They can accomplish it. The majority of the American public is still asleep as to how dangerous this Republican party is, even after all these years and everything that has happened already.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Howzabout we just kick Texas out of the country?

Hell, they keep threatening to leave. Let them.

 

[Optimus Prime]

How is this not the indocrination of children that the right is always screaming about?
========================================================


A Michigan superintendent is pondering whether coaches should lead students in pre-game prayer. A school board member in Florida wants her district to teach students about prayer and offer religious studies. In Hawaii, the leader of a faith- and family-focused activism group sees a path to altering state policy that says public-school employees cannot initiate prayer on campus.

A month has passed since the Supreme Court ruled in favor of a Washington state football coach who knelt at midfield to pray and was joined by student-athletes. The court wrote, in a 6-3 decision, that Bremerton High School assistant coach Joseph Kennedy’s prayers were protected by the Constitution’s guarantees of free speech and religious exercise, and that the district was wrong to discipline him for what the majority saw as a private act.

In response, families, teachers and activists are preparing to push religious worship into public schools nationwide — working to blur the line dividing prayer and pedagogy and promising emotional, spiritual and educational benefits for students. Some school officials are listening: In at least three states, Illinois, Alabama and Oregon, school personnel have said they are reviewing their policies on employee prayer.

“Our nation has lost its way in having lost a belief of a higher power,” said Christi Fraga, a Miami-Dade school board member who in May successfully proposed establishing an annual day of prayer in her district. “So in my community, there has been a cry for help — a cry to allow prayer in our schools.” Fraga added of the court’s ruling: “I hope it brings back our country to its foundation.”

Those who say faith should play a role in public schools are thrilled with their gains and eager to push for more next school year. They cite not only the court’s decision for Kennedy but also a June ruling in which the court declared that Maine cannot prevent religious schools from receiving public tuition grants permitted for other private schools.

In other places, though, educators say not much will change — largely because coach-led prayer at games and invocations before school board meetings were already happening...............

Some mothers and fathers also fear what the next school year may bring. Those who practice non-Christian religions warn that, in most of America, “prayer” will by default mean Christian prayer, leaving their children alienated and isolated — while those who do not practice any faith worry their children will be coerced into espousing values and beliefs their parents do not share.

Among them is Kristi Robertson, a 33-year-old atheist in Oklahoma whose daughter discovered God and Christianity when her third-grade public-school teacher led the class in daily prayer. Four years later, Aurora, alone in her family, still prays and goes to church.

“There is nothing I can do about that now; she has made her choices to be religious,” Robertson said. “And if she’s invited to pray at school, she’s going to. If I do hear about it, I would probably complain again — but for other students. It is too late for her.”............

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/07/26/school-prayer-kennedy-church-state/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F377ad89%2F62e00ce7cfe8a2160107ae0f%2F59813061ae7e8a6816fb1940%2F9%2F72%2F62e00ce7cfe8a2160107ae0f&wp_cu=f59d95843d1b8569d5feb9225743f8ec%7C42E730F6C5F01223E0530100007F1ADF

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

When Donald Trump poached Ronald Reagan’s 1980 campaign catchphrase “Let’s Make America Great Again,” it was not just the slogan but the meaning behind it that bonded the two Republican campaigns. What it embodies is less an ideology or even a conservative worldview than a deep yearning and determination to restore an idealized version of 1950s America that many Republicans believe has been lost. For the last half-century, that idea has informed much of what the GOP has come to represent.

According to a 2021 survey from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), 70 percent of Republicans believe that American culture and way of life have changed for the worse since the 1950s. To them, it was in the 1960s — when liberation movements demanded social and institutional change, sexual mores began to shift, and intellectuals labeled us a sick society — that the American century began to unravel. They believe we haven’t recovered since. Reestablish the belief system of the 1950s, these Republicans say, and we can make America great again.

In reality, however, the 1950s were great only for some Americans. Restoring that America — as many Republicans are attempting to do in places where they wield political power — would hurt almost everyone else.

In the popular imagination embraced by many Republicans, America achieved unparalleled greatness in the 1950s — a time of prosperity, social cohesion and global preeminence. It was a decade of “Leave It to Beaver” and “Father Knows Best” when suburban bliss and national pride revitalized an American Dream that had been tested during the Depression and World War II. In these happy days, Americans saluted the flag, revered the police, believed in God, trusted authority and honored both the businesses that brought abundance and the lunch pail heroes who built the nation’s prosperity without griping or government assistance.

To some extent, there’s a grain of truth to this roseate view of the 1950s. It was a time of extraordinary economic growth, with household income rising nearly 30 percent in the four years after World War II and nearly doubling during the decade. Families that suffered hardship and sacrifice during the previous two decades could now afford a home with appliances and a backyard — in safe neighborhoods where children could ride their Schwinn bicycles without worry. Instead of shelter, food and clothing eating up their paychecks, this newly empowered middle class could spend, and spend it did — on televisions, hi-fis, cameras, furniture, just about everything for their baby boom children, and especially cars.

As Dinah Shore sang in a 1950s Chevrolet ad, a tribute to the car as a symbol of freedom, “Drive your Chevrolet through the U.S.A., America’s the greatest land of all.”

To be sure, this bounty represented the byproduct of a unique moment in history when America’s economic competitors had been cratered by war and ideology, leaving them without the capacity to manufacture the goods we sold to them. America’s singular prosperity and “greatness” came, in large measure, because other countries weren’t yet ready to compete.

But to those who idealize the 1950s, how we achieved our prosperity is immaterial. What matters to them are the sepia-toned images of a time they remember as “great.” The problem is: That era was not so great for everyone..............

MSN

You took a lot of time to compose a post with much useful information...and many valid viewpoints.
I find myself agreeing with many things but I'll key in on paragraph 4....beginning with "In these happy days Americans saluted the flag, ...etc. etc. "
I was not born until 1962 but that's close enough. I can relate to folks that feel that way.
Most people focus on what would bring THEM happiness....what would make THEIR life feel comfortable and content. That's human nature correct?
Saluting the flag...Faith in God....Respecting the Police...etc., etc...I admit that I am in favor of all those things. I'd like to see an America where the majority of my fellow citizens want those things for themselves as well.
So I'd suggest that I am PRO those things....but NOT wishing ill to or even to marginalize others who are not in my political party or sharing other characteristics that make me me.
Is that helpful to have a glimpse into my thinking?
Some people want to condemn and want me to condemn. I'm not interested in that....but I'm me and they are who they are. Somehow we all have to coexist.
Is there a candidate in either party who could step forward and get things done without being far left or far right?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Some people want to condemn and want me to condemn. I'm not interested in that....

Is there anyone worth condemning? What about Steve Bannon and his call to train shock troops to destroy the government? How about the people displaying pro-Nazi and antisemitic symbols in support of Ron DeSantis?

On that same note, what does it tell you about Ron DeSantis when he is supported by Nazis?

 

[Optimus Prime]

I’ll admit I’m not a fan of this tactic

Even if it works it’s shady and it might backfire and you might lose
==========================

If the Democratic Party is to be believed, the coming midterm elections will herald the most radical field of right wing Republican candidates to ever run for office.

President Joe Biden summed up his party’s pitch ahead of the November 2022 vote when he called the MAGA movement “the most extreme political organisation that’s existed in American history.”

So why, then, are Democrats trying so hard to help them win?

Across the country, in Maryland, Pennsylvania, Arizona and Illinois, Democratic groups are bankrolling political ads to bolster fringe Republican candidates. The aim of that support is to elevate extreme GOP candidates over their moderate rivals during primary season, with the expectation that they will be easier to beat in a general election.

Among the candidates being promoted by Democrats are Doug Mastriano, a Pennsylvania state senator running for governor who worked to overturn the 2020 election and even chartered buses to the US Capitol on January 6.

Then there is Dan Cox, Republican gubernatorial candidate for Maryland, who has pushed the same election fraud falsehoods. Larry Hogan, the departing GOP governor, called Cox “a “conspiracy-theory-believing QAnon whack-job.”

In Arizona, GOP candidate Kari Lake said she would not have certified Joe Biden’s victory in Arizona, as she was required to do by law, and has repeatedly spread falsehoods about the 2020 election. She, too, is receiving help from Democrats.

It’s a bold but risky strategy, as former presidential candidate Hillary Clinton can attest. During the GOP primary campaign in 2016, her team spoke often of their ideal match-up against an inexperienced wild card named Donald Trump…….

Why Democrats are helping some of the most extreme Republicans to ever run for office

Democrats are once again employing a controversial strategy to boost extremist Republican candidates in primary campaigns. Experts say they’re “playing with fire.”

www.independent.co.uk

Democrats have spent months insisting that the aftermath of the 2020 election – and January 6 in particular – amounted to a fundamental threat to American democracy and was, therefore, above petty partisan politics.

Which is true!

But, the actions of Democratic campaigns and committees – meddling in Republican primaries to try to ensure election deniers wind up as the party’s nominee so they can run against supposedly weaker candidates – suggests that all of those pledges about democracy are mere words, not borne out by action......

The race, in the Grand Rapids-based seat, is expected to be close. Which is what makes the news reported by a variety of outlets on Monday – that the House Democratic campaign arm had placed a major ad buy in advance of the state’s August 2 primary – all the more intriguing.

As Politico reported:

“[Meijer’s] Western Michigan district is one of the party’s top offensive targets this election, and Democratic strategists believe if they can boost Meijer’s pro-Trump challenger to victory next week, they will have an easier time this fall trying to flip a seat President Joe Biden carried by nine points in 2020.”

The Meijer move is far from the first time this election cycle that Democrats have actively meddled in a Republican primary to help elect an election denier over someone who says that the election was fair and free......

This is smart politics. There’s no question, for example, that Cox will have a harder time appealing to the Democratic-tilting state of Maryland than would the more moderate candidate he beat in the primary. Ditto Mastriano. And Bailey.

But, remember: Democrats have expressly said that the 2020 election and its aftermath are about more than hardball politics. Those events threatened the fabric of our democracy and the people who pushed them need to be punished. That’s the whole point of the January 6 committee – and those who are urging it to make criminal referrals on members of Trumpworld.........

Democrats' blatant hypocrisy about the 2020 election and its aftermath

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Saluting the flag...Faith in God....Respecting the Police...etc., etc...I admit that I am in favor of all those things. I'd like to see an America where the majority of my fellow citizens want those things for themselves as well.
So I'd suggest that I am PRO those things....but NOT wishing ill to or even to marginalize others who are not in my political party or sharing other characteristics that make me me.

I have no problem with this ethos but, as you note, it should always be a choice. America should set forth a secular structure that allows people to be patriotic and have their personal religious beliefs without weaving those tenants into the laws that govern everyone.

The flag itself is meaningless. It is the values that it represents that matter. If it represents a brand of, as people have come to dub it, Christian Nationalism, then I have no respect for it or such a country. That would make America no different than the caliphates you see in the Middle East. Most every other place on this Earth outside of the Middle East leans atheist or agnostic or embraces a form of 'religion' that is more philosophical than dogmatic. America is holding itself back with anachronistic values that it placed too much emphasis on when it split from Europe at the time of its founding. The irony is despite the fact the European monarchies where premised on divine right rule, they are far more socially progressive today.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

For your review:

Left–right political spectrum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And:

Left vs. Right in the Political Party Spectrum - Lesson | Study.com

Learn about left vs. right politics in the political party spectrum, and liberal versus conservative ideologies. Discover the conflicts between...

study.com

Specifically:


The left and right don’t move. They are what they are. Political parties, however, can align anywhere on the left-right spectrum they choose, and can and do shift. It’s why we say Republicans have been “moving farther right” in the last few decades.

This is the last time I'm going to make this point.

I have already stated where the KKK, white supremacy, is now on the political spectrum. They are clearly part of the right. My point to you was in response to this: "Point of order: the KKK has always been a far-right organization." So while yes the KKK is a right-wing organization now it originated as part of the violence one finds in a post-conflict society, not as a point along a political line. That is an important part of their history that needs to be taken into consideration when discussing them.

 

[brandon]

This is the last time I'm going to make this point.

I have already stated where the KKK, white supremacy, is now on the political spectrum. They are clearly part of the right. My point to you was in response to this: "Point of order: the KKK has always been a far-right organization." So while yes the KKK is a right-wing organization now it originated as part of the violence one finds in a post-conflict society, not as a point along a political line. That is an important part of their history that needs to be taken into consideration when discussing them.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

They were founded in a post-conflict society. When they were founded, they were founded on an ideology that is considered far-right.

I’m not sure what your conflict is here.

 

[bird]

This is the last time I'm going to make this point.

I have already stated where the KKK, white supremacy, is now on the political spectrum. They are clearly part of the right. My point to you was in response to this: "Point of order: the KKK has always been a far-right organization." So while yes the KKK is a right-wing organization now it originated as part of the violence one finds in a post-conflict society, not as a point along a political line. That is an important part of their history that needs to be taken into consideration when discussing them.

I won’t argue that point. I would argue whether post-conflict is a real thing. Conflict of various kinds has existed in human relations for millennia. Specific conflicts can be viewed as watershed events or pivot points but conflict continues. Violence, state controlled/sanctioned or not, always rises from time to time. Societal breakdown, real or worse, imagined, casts forces in opposition to each other much closer to violence. Various groups will view societal change as breakdown or not. That dualistic tendency can and likely will spark violence. Another always pleasant factor to bring in is deity approval/disapproval depending upon the political position of the parties involved.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

It's nice to see arguing on this thread that has absolutely nothing to do with me

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

BOOK] Violence after war: explaining instability in post-conflict states​

MJ Boyle - 2014 - books.google.com
Developing a better understanding of the dynamics of violence in post-war states can lead to
a more durable peace. The end of one war is frequently the beginning of another because …
Save Cite Cited by 121 Related articles All 4 versions

[BOOK] Violence in post-conflict societies: Remarginalization, remobilizers and relationships​

A Themnér - 2011 - taylorfrancis.com
This book compares post-civil war societies to look at the presence or absence of organized
violence, analysing why some ex-combatants return to organised violence and others do …
Save Cite Cited by 135 Related articles All 7 versions
[PDF] mit.edu

Home, again: Refugee return and post-conflict violence in Burundi​

S Schwartz - International Security, 2019 - direct.mit.edu
Conflict between returning refugees and nonmigrant populations is a pervasive yet
frequently overlooked security issue in post-conflict societies. Although scholars have …
Save Cite Cited by 41 Related articles All 3 versions
[PDF] cornell.edu

Gender-based violence and justice in conflict and post-conflict areas​

R Manjoo, C McRaith - Cornell Int'l LJ, 2011 - HeinOnline
" War is an inherently patriarchal activity, and rape is one of the most extreme expressions of
the patriarchal drive toward masculine domination over the woman. This patriarchal …
Save Cite Cited by 184 Related articles All 2 versions

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

They were founded in a post-conflict society. When they were founded, they were founded on an ideology that is considered far-right.

I’m not sure what your conflict is here.

I suppose the KKK was as much a conservative organization as it was an organization made up of former military, who lost a war, looking to fight that war all over again. However, IMO, it is the post-war atmosphere that has kept the KKK/white supremacy alive in the south even to this day. They've just never gotten over it.

Something like that anyway.

 

[MT15]

Being rude and inconsiderate is becoming the R brand these days.

 

[coldseat]

Being rude and inconsiderate is becoming the R brand these days.

It's been part of their brand sense they started complaining endlessly about political correctness (remember those days?). The complaint had some merit at the time, but as Republicans do, they take everything to an extreme. So now to them being courteous, welcoming and inclusive is being part of the woke leftists mob and being a exclusive, rude and an utter jackass is being a "real" and "honest" conservative.

 

[Optimus Prime]

It's been part of their brand sense they started complaining endlessly about political correctness (remember those days?). The complaint had some merit at the time, but as Republicans do, they take everything to an extreme. So now to them being courteous, welcoming and inclusive is being part of the woke leftists mob and being a exclusive, rude and an utter jackass is being a "real" and "honest" conservative.

..........To achieve its goal, the right uses a now familiar four-part strategy.

First, Republicans use any means necessary to achieve power and promote their unpopular, extremist, counter-majoritarian agenda.

Second, they create and promote disinformation and lies to frighten their base and Jedi mind-trick them into believing they are being oppressed by the actual victims.

Third, they create a specific villain, target them, and then attack them through scapegoating, smearing, and intimidation.

Fourth, they never apologize or back down once their lie is exposed, but instead, they double down, and in times of doubt, always pivot towards racism and fear-mongering......

Finally, the modern right-wing movement can never apologize, own up to its mistakes, or back down. Humility, grace, and decency are perceived by the base as signs of weakness. Instead, they ratchet up the lie, amp up the terror, and add more villains.

For example, despite numerous election audits supporting Biden’s victory, and even loyal Trumpers—such as former Attorney General Bill Barr—affirming the 2020 election results, the GOP has instead chosen to feed its base the Big Lie.

Even after the 10-year-old rape victim’s story was confirmed, Republicans who called her a liar refused to offer an apology or correction. When pressed, Rep. Jordan said he “never doubted the child” and instead blamed the media. Fox News hosts didn’t correct the story for their audience, but instead decided to engage in their usual xenophobia by attacking the alleged rapist’s immigration status...........

The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation

The right has a tested formula to brainwash its base. From the Big Lie to attacking a 10-year-old rape victim, here’s how they do it.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[SystemShock]

When Donald Trump poached Ronald Reagan’s 1980 campaign catchphrase “Let’s Make America Great Again,” it was not just the slogan but the meaning behind it that bonded the two Republican campaigns. What it embodies is less an ideology or even a conservative worldview than a deep yearning and determination to restore an idealized version of 1950s America that many Republicans believe has been lost. For the last half-century,

I am going to have to disagree with that opinion... while I don't doubt 1980's Reps yearned for 1950's U.S.A., the general morale in the U.S. took a huge hit in the 1970's.. from Viet Nam, through the oil crisis, Watergate, Disco, all the way to the rise of Ayatollah, and all the other good stuff in between, I don't think U.S. pride was ever as as low as it was in 1980. The images of the wreckage from the failed attempt at rescuing the Iran hostages, that was a severe kick in the country's nuts.

That's what gave rise to Reagan's "Let's Make America Great Again".

 

[Optimus Prime]

Just want to say again how much I don't like this. Even if it works and dems win all of these elections, I'd still hate it. And if it backfires and lose these elections I'd forking hate it

Would these GOP candidates have won their primaries with DNC money? Maybe yes, maybe no. But it's a bad look.

It’s a close purple state/district try to run against the Qanon whack job instead of the moderate Republican

It's a bad look when the goal isn't even to win the election.

There are some ruby red districts where a democrat doesn't have a prayer but try to get the primary voters to nominate the moderate republican instead of the Qanon whackjob

As much as democrats thought 2016 would be a cakewalk against Trump the DNC didn't actively push him the primaries as far as I know

If Republicans were doing this to democratic candidates we'd be raising holy hell and calling it yet another example of how morally corrupt the party is
==================================================

Among the many GOP primaries in which Democrats have meddled to help nominate a more extreme and supposedly more beatable candidate, the Pennsylvania governor’s race is probably the riskiest. But when it comes to sheer problematic symbolism, it’s tough to top the latest example.

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee this week began spending $435,000 to meddle in a key House primary — not just helping someone who has baselessly questioned the 2020 presidential election, but someone running against one of just 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump after Jan. 6: Rep. Peter Meijer (R-Mich.).

And it’s ramped up the growing reckoning over the dicey ethics and practicality of the gambit.

Politico checked in with a number of House Democrats who derided the strategy. Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.), a Jan. 6 committee member, called it “mind-blowing” to prop up someone who is “telling the very kinds of lies that caused Jan. 6 and continues to put our democracy in danger.” Rep. Dean Phillips (D-Minn.) said, “It’s dishonorable, and it’s dangerous, and it’s just damn wrong.”

And Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.) noted that the strategy could also lead to these candidates ultimately holding office: “Not only do I think it sends the wrong message, but it’s substantively risky.”

Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.), one of two Republicans on the Jan. 6 committee, offered his own choice words Tuesday: “Don’t come to me after having spent money supporting an election denier in a primary, and then come to me and say, ‘Where are all the good Republicans?’ ”

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

You took a lot of time to compose a post with much useful information...and many valid viewpoints.
I find myself agreeing with many things but I'll key in on paragraph 4....beginning with "In these happy days Americans saluted the flag, ...etc. etc. "
I was not born until 1962 but that's close enough. I can relate to folks that feel that way.
Most people focus on what would bring THEM happiness....what would make THEIR life feel comfortable and content. That's human nature correct?
Saluting the flag...Faith in God....Respecting the Police...etc., etc...I admit that I am in favor of all those things. I'd like to see an America where the majority of my fellow citizens want those things for themselves as well.
So I'd suggest that I am PRO those things....but NOT wishing ill to or even to marginalize others who are not in my political party or sharing other characteristics that make me me.
Is that helpful to have a glimpse into my thinking?
Some people want to condemn and want me to condemn. I'm not interested in that....but I'm me and they are who they are. Somehow we all have to coexist.
Is there a candidate in either party who could step forward and get things done without being far left or far right?

I didn't write that article

But this point you made:

"Saluting the flag...Faith in God....Respecting the Police...etc., etc...I admit that I am in favor of all those things. I'd like to see an America where the majority of my fellow citizens want those things for themselves as well."

Wanting an America where the majority wants those things is the point of the article

What about the people who think it's silly to salute the flag if you aren't in the military?

What about the people who believe in a different God? or No God at all?

What about the people who have been humiliated, antagonized, abused and brutalized by the police? Should George Floyd's daughter have to respect the police?

People want to return to a time when men were men, women were women, men did manly things and women did lady things. There was a place for minorities (and they damn well better stay in it) and homosexuals and transgendered were not to be seen at all

You say you don't wish ill on those who disagree and I'll choose to believe that and give you credit for it

Plenty of people don't feel this way.

They feel that what other groups call progress they call a betrayal and deterioration of what "America is supposed to be" and as 'progress' continues they are getting angrier and angrier and more and more desperate (and don't get me started on those who deliberately feed that anger, not for any real conviction or belief, but just for clicks, money and votes)