Understanding The Conservative Mindset (1 Viewer)

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MT15

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Obviously, I am not conservative. I have been struggling with the way a lot of conservatives are responding to the election. I do not understand their willingness to go along with obvious lies by Trump sycophants at all, and their willingness to undermine a presidential election, and by doing so, undermine our very form of government. This thread is from a former conservative journalist, well, he’s still conservative I think, but has left his positions in traditional conservative organizations. It’s a long thread but fascinating.

 

DaveXA

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More accurately, it doesn't appear that anybody was brandishing firearms. In one image I saw, a man appears to have a rather long knife sheathed on his torso. In other images, people can be seen with what appears to be plastic hand ties. We don't actually know if people were armed, and I'm not sure that making the assumption they weren't should satisfy a dismissal of the intentions of a mob who forced entry into the Capitol.
Yeah, we're talking maybe a handful of people out of thousands who had weapons. I'm speaking more towards whether a substantial enough number being armed to effectively be called an attempted coup. I think what those who broke into the Capitol should be charged with sedition or treason, but would it stick?
 

Taurus

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I've seen the picture before and just now noticed what looks like a holstered gun on his hip. Leaving room for consideration that the photo has been manipulated - though I've seen the hand ties from other sources.
Yeah, if that's legit, we can start using the term "armed insurrection". You'd hope the security cameras at the freaking Capitol would have decent resolution.
 

brandon

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Yeah, we're talking maybe a handful of people out of thousands who had weapons. I'm speaking more towards whether a substantial enough number being armed to effectively be called an attempted coup. I think what those who broke into the Capitol should be charged with sedition or treason, but would it stick?
I think sedition would stick. Treason would be a tougher sell.
https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/sedition.html#:~:text=Sedition%20is%20a%20serious%20felony said:
In order to get a conviction for seditious conspiracy, the government must prove that the defendant in fact conspired to use force. Simply advocating for the use of force is not the same thing and in most cases is protected as free speech under the First Amendment. For example, two or more people who give public speeches suggesting the need for a total revolution "by any means necessary" have not necessarily conspired to overthrow the government. Rather, they're just sharing their opinions, however unsavory. But actively planning such an action (distributing guns, working out the logistics of an attack, actively opposing lawful authority, etc.) could be considered a seditious conspiracy.

Sedition differs from treason (defined in Article III of the U.S. Constitution) in a fundamental way. While seditious conspiracy is generally defined as conduct or language inciting rebellion against the authority of a state, treason is the more-serious offense of actively levying war against the United States or giving aid to its enemies.
 
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MT15

MT15

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There’s nothing goofy about that guy. He either has military training or law enforcement training. He is wearing gloves and appears to have his face covered. He looks to be in good shape too. They will probably not be able to identify him, I think.
 

Incumbent

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There’s nothing goofy about that guy. He either has military training or law enforcement training. He is wearing gloves and appears to have his face covered. He looks to be in good shape too. They will probably not be able to identify him, I think.
He has some identifiable details on his gear so the key will be whether his image was captured anywhere when he was unmasked. Twitterverse's attempts at identifying his patches are The Punisher, a Thin Blue Line Tennessee patch, and a 'Come and Take It' decal on his hat.

With the reaches of modern technology, there's a realistic chance we'll find out who he is.
 

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Yeah, we're talking maybe a handful of people out of thousands who had weapons. I'm speaking more towards whether a substantial enough number being armed to effectively be called an attempted coup. I think what those who broke into the Capitol should be charged with sedition or treason, but would it stick?

I think if we're talking about a coup, and I missed that if it was part of the exchange, then I agree with you that this doesn't rise to that level.

Sedition and insurrection aren't synonymous with coup.
 
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MT15

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He has some identifiable details on his gear so the key will be whether his image was captured anywhere when he was unmasked. Twitterverse's attempts at identifying his patches are The Punisher, a Thin Blue Line Tennessee patch, and a 'Come and Take It' decal on his hat.

With the reaches of modern technology, there's a realistic chance we'll find out who he is.
i hope you’re right but those aren’t exactly rare patches.
 

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i hope you’re right but those aren’t exactly rare patches.
No. I mean matching the patches and their arrangement to any other images captured of him around the time of this event. Leaving a hotel, entering a restaurant, en route to the Capitol. Not meaning to imply the patches, alone, will reveal his identity.
 

SFIDC3

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Yeah, we're talking maybe a handful of people out of thousands who had weapons.
Really? You know that for sure? Because I suspect otherwise....
 

DaveXA

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Yea, that's a pretty unrealistic assumption.
No it's not. If police in DC saw someone armed, they'd be arrested on the spot. They don't tolerate open or concealed carry in DC surrounding federal buildings. I've seen hundreds of pictures, and the guy that was posted here was the closest thing I've seen to a gun. There were thousands surrounding the Capitol and I couldn't see any weapons in any of the pics or videos.

I've seen many armed to the teeth in other states, but in DC, unless they hid those weapons really well, I'm not seeing that happen.

That said, they're all idiots for rushing the Capitol and causing chaos, including causing the death of 4 people.
 

brandon

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No it's not. If police in DC saw someone armed, they'd be arrested on the spot. They don't tolerate open or concealed carry in DC surrounding federal buildings. I've seen hundreds of pictures, and the guy that was posted here was the closest thing I've seen to a gun. There were thousands surrounding the Capitol and I couldn't see any weapons in any of the pics or videos.

I've seen many armed to the teeth in other states, but in DC, unless they hid those weapons really well, I'm not seeing that happen.

That said, they're all idiots for rushing the Capitol and causing chaos, including causing the death of 4 people.
Ridiculous assumption. You can't arrest for concealed carry if you can't see it. They weren't patting anyone down, and they obviously weren't checking for weapons while the building was being overrun.

There was no way they were able to actually determine who was concealed carry in that crowd and who wasn't. Remember, this is the 2nd Amendment crowd being told they're going to civil war. Even if 10% of that mob was packing, you're talking hundreds of people.
 

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No it's not. If police in DC saw someone armed, they'd be arrested on the spot. They don't tolerate open or concealed carry in DC surrounding federal buildings. I've seen hundreds of pictures, and the guy that was posted here was the closest thing I've seen to a gun. There were thousands surrounding the Capitol and I couldn't see any weapons in any of the pics or videos.

I've seen many armed to the teeth in other states, but in DC, unless they hid those weapons really well, I'm not seeing that happen.

That said, they're all idiots for rushing the Capitol and causing chaos, including causing the death of 4 people.

Most of the people I've seen had on jackets and were wearing and carrying other gear. It wouldn't be difficult at all to conceal a gun.

And carrying guns wherever and whenever is a fundamental part of the ethos of many of these people.

I realize it's all speculation about the extent to which people might have been armed, but I don't find it implausible that there could have been a fair amount of guns and other weapons in that mob. We aren't talking about a group of people who are likely going to care much what DC laws are beyond taking basic precautions to not get caught. Hell, newly elected Lauren Boebert ran on being armed and has insisted she's going to carry in DC. All part of that stream of information making these people believe they can do what they want. I mean, they stormed the Capitol and that's not legal, either. They don't care the way you and I do.
 

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