Understanding The Conservative Mindset (1 Viewer)

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MT15

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Obviously, I am not conservative. I have been struggling with the way a lot of conservatives are responding to the election. I do not understand their willingness to go along with obvious lies by Trump sycophants at all, and their willingness to undermine a presidential election, and by doing so, undermine our very form of government. This thread is from a former conservative journalist, well, he’s still conservative I think, but has left his positions in traditional conservative organizations. It’s a long thread but fascinating.

 

wardorican

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I am worried that we will have this issue for a long time to come in this country.

Yup.

It's simple math.

Look, about 70 million people voted for him.

I think I heard that the number of folks outside the capitol was in the thousands. let's say 10k. I also heard reports that the number of people that breached the Capitol and got inside was maybe in the hundreds or less. And once it got stupid, even the outside crowd shrunk fast.

0.014% of GOP voters were at the Capitol. 0.00014% of GOP voters likely stormed the Capitol.

They really can't just see that any group can easily have 0.00014% of their group be total nut jobs? Nope, it has to be 'someone else that did it'
 

Incumbent

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They really can't just see that any group can easily have 0.00014% of their group be total nut jobs? Nope, it has to be 'someone else that did it'
Sure, and the push back to that is publicly announced charges and the disclosure of identities. Blast these people far and wide.
 
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MT15

MT15

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I did read that the one tattoo on a guys hand that all of MAGA is calling a hammer and sickle and thus proof of antifa (i know, 🤷‍♀️) is actually a symbol from a video game. It stands for The Outsider and he’s a right wing radical.
 

DaveXA

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I know quite a few have been identified. It will come out. Probably today or tomorrow as arrests are made.
Not only that, they're going to be prosecuted and probably jailed for a while. They should get the 10 years at least for destroying/damaging federal property.
 

wardorican

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Not only that, they're going to be prosecuted and probably jailed for a while. They should get the 10 years at least for destroying/damaging federal property.
It will very depending on who did what, and the cost.

1666. DESTRUCTION OF GOVERNMENT PROPERTY -- 18 U.S.C. § 1361

"...As amended on September 13, 1994, if the damage exceeds $100, the defendant is subject to a fine of up to $250,000, ten years imprisonment, or both. See Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, Pub. L. 103-322, § 330016, 108 Stat. 1796, 2146-47 (1994). When property damage does not exceed $100, the offense is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $100,000, one year imprisonment, or both. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 3559(a), 3571. "
 

DaveXA

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It will very depending on who did what, and the cost.

1666. DESTRUCTION OF GOVERNMENT PROPERTY -- 18 U.S.C. § 1361

"...As amended on September 13, 1994, if the damage exceeds $100, the defendant is subject to a fine of up to $250,000, ten years imprisonment, or both. See Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, Pub. L. 103-322, § 330016, 108 Stat. 1796, 2146-47 (1994). When property damage does not exceed $100, the offense is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $100,000, one year imprisonment, or both. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 3559(a), 3571. "
Don't forget Trump's own executive order. That's where the 10 years comes from. Or they can be charged with sedition or treason which have far more severe consequences.

That said, since all of them were unarmed, I'm not sure that would hold up in court.
 

brandon

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Don't forget Trump's own executive order. That's where the 10 years comes from. Or they can be charged with sedition or treason which have far more severe consequences.

That said, since all of them were unarmed, I'm not sure that would hold up in court.
Nothing about the definitions of treason or sedition requires arms.
 

DaveXA

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Nothing about the definitions of treason or sedition requires arms.
No, but common sense would be that an unarmed group of people are not going to come close to effecting a coup. Real coups usually involves guns, tanks and other military hardware.

The terrible security decisions had a lot to do with people getting into the Capitol yesterday.
 

brandon

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No, but common sense would be that an unarmed group of people are not going to come close to effecting a coup. Real coups usually involves guns, tanks and other military hardware.

The terrible security decisions had a lot to do with people getting into the Capitol yesterday.
Well yea, but that's not what we were talking about. We don't have to charge them with attempted coup (is that even a thing?). But what many did yesterday absolutely falls within the realms of sedition and treason, including POTUS.
 

DaveXA

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Well yea, but that's not what we were talking about. We don't have to charge them with attempted coup (is that even a thing?). But what many did yesterday absolutely falls within the realms of sedition and treason, including POTUS.
Agreed. I'm just posing the question about whether a court/judge would see it that way. If they would, go for it then. Whatever happens, those idiots in the Capitol need to be held accountable for what they did.
 

brandon

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Agreed. I'm just posing the question about whether a court/judge would see it that way. If they would, go for it then. Whatever happens, those idiots in the Capitol need to be held accountable for what they did.
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons...conspire to..by force...prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

I'll be glad to argue this in front of a judge. Kinda seems like a slam dunk to me. Somebody get me a bar exam.
 
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MT15

MT15

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Don't forget Trump's own executive order. That's where the 10 years comes from. Or they can be charged with sedition or treason which have far more severe consequences.

That said, since all of them were unarmed, I'm not sure that would hold up in court.
they weren’t unarmed. There’s at least one Capitol police officer in critical condition and lots more were injured. Mostly by being hit with metal pipes, if I heard it correctly. There was a news conference a while ago.
 

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No, but common sense would be that an unarmed group of people are not going to come close to effecting a coup. Real coups usually involves guns, tanks and other military hardware.

The terrible security decisions had a lot to do with people getting into the Capitol yesterday.
More accurately, it doesn't appear that anybody was brandishing firearms. In one image I saw, a man appears to have a rather long knife sheathed on his torso. In other images, people can be seen with what appears to be plastic hand ties. We don't actually know if people were armed, and I'm not sure that making the assumption they weren't should satisfy a dismissal of the intentions of a mob who forced entry into the Capitol.
 
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MT15

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I saw other images of people with what looked to be concealed handguns also. Those people were completely unscreened. There were three explosive devices found. Some of them were no doubt just goofy idiots, but some were very businesslike in their terroristic intentions.
 

J-DONK

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I saw other images of people with what looked to be concealed handguns also. Those people were completely unscreened. There were three explosive devices found. Some of them were no doubt just goofy idiots, but some were very businesslike in their terroristic intentions.
There was also this guy, who judging from the zipties in his hand, planned on taking prisoners.

 

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There was also this guy, who judging from the zipties in his hand, planned on taking prisoners.

I've seen the picture before and just now noticed what looks like a holstered gun on his hip. Leaving room for consideration that the photo has been manipulated - though I've seen the hand ties from other sources.
 

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