Understanding The Conservative Mindset (1 Viewer)

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MT15

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Obviously, I am not conservative. I have been struggling with the way a lot of conservatives are responding to the election. I do not understand their willingness to go along with obvious lies by Trump sycophants at all, and their willingness to undermine a presidential election, and by doing so, undermine our very form of government. This thread is from a former conservative journalist, well, he’s still conservative I think, but has left his positions in traditional conservative organizations. It’s a long thread but fascinating.

 

Complex Kid

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I did read that the one tattoo on a guys hand that all of MAGA is calling a hammer and sickle and thus proof of antifa (i know, 🤷‍♀️) is actually a symbol from a video game. It stands for The Outsider and he’s a right wing radical.
Yep. Antifa famous for having uhhh nazi record labels...

 

DaveXA

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Ridiculous assumption. You can't arrest for concealed carry if you can't see it. They weren't patting anyone down, and they obviously weren't checking for weapons while the building was being overrun.

There was no way they were able to actually determine who was concealed carry in that crowd and who wasn't. Remember, this is the 2nd Amendment crowd being told they're going to civil war. Even if 10% of that mob was packing, you're talking hundreds of people.
Then explain why USCP hasn't reported that anyone who got into the Capitol were armed? That would be all over the news if that was the case. There were 60+ arrested. I don't know how many were arrested for weapons possession, but it would have to be a decent percentage is your assertion is true.
 

DaveXA

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Most of the people I've seen had on jackets and were wearing and carrying other gear. It wouldn't be difficult at all to conceal a gun.

And carrying guns wherever and whenever is a fundamental part of the ethos of many of these people.

I realize it's all speculation about the extent to which people might have been armed, but I don't find it implausible that there could have been a fair amount of guns and other weapons in that mob. We aren't talking about a group of people who are likely going to care much what DC laws are beyond taking basic precautions to not get caught. Hell, newly elected Lauren Boebert ran on being armed and has insisted she's going to carry in DC. All part of that stream of information making these people believe they can do what they want. I mean, they stormed the Capitol and that's not legal, either. They don't care the way you and I do.
I agree with all of that. But surely most of the leaders who have experience doing this know the gun laws in DC and they're not gonna risk losing their guns and getting a felony on their record because of it. Unless the person going into the city is a moron (well yeah, they are anyway) they're not bringing a gun there.

And I know this because I personally know a few gun nuts, and they talk a lot about where they can and can't bring their guns, and DC is one of those places that gets talked about quite a bit.

Fwiw, the couple of friends I know who went to the rally don't own guns and went.

I'm not saying there weren't any, but I don't think there were many with guns there. It's hard to tell either way. I just think we would have heard more about it if that were the case.
 

Incumbent

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Then explain why USCP hasn't reported that anyone who got into the Capitol were armed? That would be all over the news if that was the case. There were 60+ arrested. I don't know how many were arrested for weapons possession, but it would have to be a decent percentage is your assertion is true.
There are a lot of questions about what exactly the police did and didn't do. There are videos of them opening barricades, taking selfies with rioters inside the Capitol, and escorting people out and down stairs.

I was initially responding to the point that this was an unarmed mob and so that wouldn't rise to the level of insurrection.
 

Incumbent

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I agree with all of that. But surely most of the leaders who have experience doing this know the gun laws in DC and they're not gonna risk losing their guns and getting a felony on their record because of it. Unless the person going into the city is a moron (well yeah, they are anyway) they're not bringing a gun there.

And I know this because I personally know a few gun nuts, and they talk a lot about where they can and can't bring their guns, and DC is one of those places that gets talked about quite a bit.

Fwiw, the couple of friends I know who went to the rally don't own guns and went.

I'm not saying there weren't any, but I don't think there were many with guns there. It's hard to tell either way. I just think we would have heard more about it if that were the case.
They risked getting a felony the moment they forced entry into the Capitol.

Look, if you're talking about the larger crowd that was at the rally, sure, that would have been comprised of a broader mix of people. I'm talking about the people who stormed the Capitol and I think you are being far too generous in your assumptions about them.
 

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And if it's not already clear from my comments today, I think there was a substantial group of people who went there planning to overrun the Capitol. These mob attacks on government buildings aren't unprecedented.
 

DaveXA

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They risked getting a felony the moment they forced entry into the Capitol.

Look, if you're talking about the larger crowd that was at the rally, sure, that would have been comprised of a broader mix of people. I'm talking about the people who stormed the Capitol and I think you are being far too generous in your assumptions about them.
Maybe I am, but again, my point stands. Wouldn't the police find weapons on them when they were arrested? This, I would think, would be all over the news. I haven't heard anything about anyone who got in the Capitol having weapons, other than the one pictured earlier.

I wonder how he managed to not get arrested? Or maybe he did and we haven't heard about out. I could be wrong, but I'd imagine there would be reports of weapons being found when they were arrested.
 

DaveXA

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And if it's not already clear from my comments today, I think there was a substantial group of people who went there planning to overrun the Capitol. These mob attacks on government buildings aren't unprecedented.
No, but I can't remember this ever happening at the Capitol specifically. The one friend I know who went to the rally said they weren't aware of plans to march to the Capitol. But, yeah, they probably weren't all part of the same group of people.
 

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Maybe I am, but again, my point stands. Wouldn't the police find weapons on them when they were arrested? This, I would think, would be all over the news. I haven't heard anything about anyone who got in the Capitol having weapons, other than the one pictured earlier.

I wonder how he managed to not get arrested? Or maybe he did and we haven't heard about out. I could be wrong, but I'd imagine there would be reports of weapons being found when they were arrested.
How many people were arrested within the Capitol? It wasn't many, and it's why the FBI is apparently engaged in a widescale effort to identify participants.

The initial number I heard was fewer than 20, which was a number that grew into the night, as I understood it, and I don't know what the range of charges were.

Honestly, whether there were guns and how many isn't that important of a point to me because I already believe a mob storming the Capitol, armed with guns, knives, pepperspray, pipes, zipties, or whatever else, or for that matter, nothing at all (but indications are that wasn't the case) already fits the definition of insurrection - "a violent uprising against an authority or government." There simply isn't some alternate acceptable justification for them being there.
 

DaveXA

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How many people were arrested within the Capitol? It wasn't many, and it's why the FBI is apparently engaged in a widescale effort to identify participants.

The initial number I heard was fewer than 20, which was a number that grew into the night, as I understood it, and I don't know what the range of charges were.

Honestly, it's not even that important of a point to me because I already believe a mob storming the Capitol, armed with guns, knives, pepperspray, pipes, zipties, or whatever else, or for that matter, nothing at all (but we already know that isn't the case) already fits the definition of insurrection - "a violent uprising against an authority or government." There simply isn't an acceptable justification for them being there.
No doubt. Agreed.
 
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MT15

MT15

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Then explain why USCP hasn't reported that anyone who got into the Capitol were armed? That would be all over the news if that was the case. There were 60+ arrested. I don't know how many were arrested for weapons possession, but it would have to be a decent percentage is your assertion is true.
They announced a couple arrests today that were made inside the Capitol and one of the two was carrying a gun, it was loaded and there was a bullet in the chamber. Most of the earlier announced (the 60 or so) were arrested after curfew outside.
 

DaveXA

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They announced a couple arrests today that were made inside the Capitol and one of the two was carrying a gun, it was loaded and there was a bullet in the chamber. Most of the earlier announced (the 60 or so) were arrested after curfew outside.
Interesting. Seems like there should have been at least a dozen arrests inside the Capitol. Only thing I can think of is that there were not enough police on hand to effectively arrest everyone who made their way in. Which wouldn't be too surprising. The Capitol building is huge and is a maze in the office areas.
 
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MT15

MT15

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There may have been more, they were announcing names and charges for these.
 

Yggdrasill

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NEVER MIND my post below. This turned out to be a video from Michigan. Sorry! Too bad, though, because I mightily impressed by the civility and restraint on everyone's part.

I saw a video on youtube of people, a few with AK47s (I'm pretty sure), in a small foyer of the House Chamber chanting arguing with red coated ushers and a handful of police. There were definitely unconcealed weapons.

Check out the dude with the flak vest over a floral print shirt!

 
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J-DONK

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I still don't see how Republicans land this plane. My hope is the event at the capitol wakes up some fraction, and they leave the party, or at least get out of their feedback loops. Most of us are from the south, we all know a relative who watches foxnews, newsmax, and their facebook feed. Unless these people unplug, I don't see how they snap back to reality. What was more shocking? A coup, or that 6 senators, and 100+ GOP reps still went along with Trump after the coup?

I know Joe is talking about working with Republicans, but it's not going to happen. The two parties are for two different forms of government at this point. It's either democracy, or authoritarian kleptocracy.
 

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