Understanding The Conservative Mindset (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

Obviously, I am not conservative. I have been struggling with the way a lot of conservatives are responding to the election. I do not understand their willingness to go along with obvious lies by Trump sycophants at all, and their willingness to undermine a presidential election, and by doing so, undermine our very form of government. This thread is from a former conservative journalist, well, he’s still conservative I think, but has left his positions in traditional conservative organizations. It’s a long thread but fascinating.

 

[MT15]

And, as long as we’re being honest, large swaths of rural america are roughly as desolate and depressed as any inner city. Theres a whole lot of poverty and despair.

 

[DaveXA]

And, as long as we’re being honest, large swaths of rural america are roughly as desolate and depressed as any inner city. Theres a whole lot of poverty and despair.

For sure. There has been as much, if not more rural decay as anywhere else. Kinda sad really. I used to drive a lot in those rural areas to visit churches and those small towns are very often a mess. Nature is beautiful out there, but people are living in some pretty desperate circumstances there more often than not. There's understandably a lot of resentment at being left behind economically in a lot of ways. Poverty and despair indeed.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[superchuck500]

 

[DaveXA]

Unreal.

 

[zztop]

There was an article that I read some years ago, I wish I could find it again b/c it would do a much better job explaining this. Essentially what it said was that for most republicans, it a BELIEF-based way of thinking, and on top of that, those beliefs are just as strong as their religious beliefs. It doesn't matter if facts are presented, all that matters is what they BELIEVE (even if their belief is wrong, inaccurate etc). In addition to this, there is a lot of stubbornness because if they are given facts that go against what they BELIEVE all that happens is they just dig their heels in even more and keep believing.

I'll give an example. My parents are Trump supporters. One day I asked my dad why he was voting for him "because he is a great businessman!" and I countered with "but he declared bankruptcy 5 times" and it didn't matter. He just BELIEVED he was a great businessman, and nothing I presented as evidence to the contrary would be considered.

 

[dtc]

I just read 5 pages of this thread hoping that somewhere there was a punch line.

When I read the thread title, "Understanding The Conservative Mindset" I knew someone was going to post the link to the Jack Nicholson line from "as good as it gets"

"How do you write conservatives so well?"

"I think of a liberal and take away logic, reason and accountability"

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

There was an article that I read some years ago, I wish I could find it again b/c it would do a much better job explaining this. Essentially what it said was that for most republicans, it a BELIEF-based way of thinking, and on top of that, those beliefs are just as strong as their religious beliefs. It doesn't matter if facts are presented, all that matters is what they BELIEVE (even if their belief is wrong, inaccurate etc). In addition to this, there is a lot of stubbornness because if they are given facts that go against what they BELIEVE all that happens is they just dig their heels in even more and keep believing.

I'll give an example. My parents are Trump supporters. One day I asked my dad why he was voting for him "because he is a great businessman!" and I countered with "but he declared bankruptcy 5 times" and it didn't matter. He just BELIEVED he was a great businessman, and nothing I presented as evidence to the contrary would be considered.

I mean, I get it on a psychological level
you intuit the belief system and you realize that most everything you think is based on the belief system. You then realize that pulling on any random thread or Jenga bar or card could be the one that brings the whole system down
why risk it? Over a mere thing like ‘truth’? not worth it

 

[SystemShock]

I mean, I get it on a psychological level
you intuit the belief system and you realize that most everything you think is based on the belief system. You then realize that pulling on any random thread or Jenga bar or card could be the one that brings the whole system down
why risk it? Over a mere thing like ‘truth’? not worth it

... and so, I fight on

 

[wardorican]

More "Facebook Adventures with Trump-Conservatives":

This is my wife's friend from growing up, I know her quite well. She has a Masters in Psychology from a fairly well regarded state university. In more recent years, especially after a serious health scare with her second child (post-birth issue that did not resolve for several years), she has become very evangelical. And in those circles, she has become fully politicized and a strong Trump supporter.

Her: Posts what appears to be a Tik-Tok video of young adult male in a yellow safety vest in a nondescript white room happily showing paper to the camera that looks like ballots, marked as Trump votes, and then ripping them up. Her tagline says something to the effect of "Can't believe this is America #allvotescount" or similar. I just happened to see it within a couple minutes of her posting it. The post immediately gets two shares and a comment like "Disgusting! So blatant!"

Me: You don't honestly think that's credible do you?

Her: Yep. And I have seen others. But then again, I'm one of those people who will believe anything!" (This is a distorted reference to a conversation we had last week where I countered her "media censorship" with a comment about the fact that the right-wing media and social media base is so widespread and strong that it gets many in its audience to believe pure nonsense).

- - - So I fire up google and find the Politfact entry debunking it, which includes a statement from the man saying that he was just joking, he's actually an Amazon worker and he was just trying to get Tik-Tok views. He has since turned his account to private.

Me: Well that took all of six minutes of research: https://www.politifact.com/factchec...-show-election-worker-destroying-tr/?src=ilaw

Her: (Right away): Ha! I don't believe fact checker sites!

Me: How about basic common sense:
Clue #1: There is nothing to suggest this man is a genuine post office or election worker. He's not a nondescript vest on and it's a close up shot in a white room. There's nothing to evidence that he's actually doing what he says he's doing.

Clue#2: People don't typically post public videos of themselves committing simultaneous federal election, post, and property felonies along with various state crimes associated with the most high-profile public event in the world right now."

Her: Yes they do, people are stupid. But I agree that this one is fake, you're right. But there are others.

Me: Okay, can you share them and let's take a look.

Her: Not on Facebook.

Her: *deletes post
__________________________________

A few observations here. One, this person clearly has no quality filter. It was obvious to me at first glance that the video was highly suspect. She had no problem posting it with some disgusted comment - but even worse, backed it up by claiming to believe it was true when I questioned it.

Another is how quickly it was shared. It had two shares almost instantaneously and a third by the time she deleted it (maybe 15 minutes after posting it). Three shares of pure junk.

Then upon my presentation of a fairly well regarded fact checking site that included a statement from the man himself that it was just a joke for views her response is "I don't believe fact checker sites."

Finally, upon realizing that it actually was fake (she's not an unintelligent person after all), she claims to have other evidence that she can't share.

I don't care whether you're right or left, conservative or liberal, Trumper or Never-Trumper, information quality is essential to public debate and without quality information there can be no credibility.

Along with some other serious concerns, I think one of the most dangerous developments in the past decade has been the overall deterioration of both the quality of information that people use in the public discourse but also the degraded appreciation of even the need for quality information the first place . . . perhaps even a true inability to judge what information is quality and what isn't. It's frightening because it moves us away from a common reality, and that's where things get really precarious.

There are many reasons for this, including the merging of news media with opinion media, and the politicization of news no matter its source. I think that, coupled with the paradox of the information age (as volume of information increases, quality of information decreases) and the overall negative trend of education in America, are the primary factors that have influenced where we are right now.

This completely resonates with me.

And let me guess, you're the butt crevasse for pointing it out.

 

[wardorican]

Thanks for starting a new conversation this - it totally merits it. I posted this tweet/thread the other day in another thread but it got lost there for the most part.

I do, however, think it's more about the mindset of conservative media and leadership rather than broadly applicable to American conservatives in general. But the power of that mindset (it's a psychosis of sorts, really) is difficult to avoid and it seeds how their supporters think and interpret events.

But what I like about his message is that is isn't conservatism that is the problem - conservatism can be "saved" from the current delusion, the willful detachment from reality, that plagues the movement in the Trump/Rush Limbaugh/QAnon era.

Too much profit in telling folks want they want to hear. Distorting facts to sell your point isn't going away any time soon.

 

[superchuck500]

This completely resonates with me.

And let me guess, you're the butt crevasse for pointing it out.

Not so much a butt crevasse but a flaming liberal.

That's actually becoming a part of American politics - demanding quality information is somehow liberal. That's fine for rhetoric or talk shows, but you see that when it matters . . . like in a courtroom . . . simply saying the same bullshirt that you say in your rhetoric or evening talkshows isn't going to be persuasive in a professional context.

 

[Taurus]

Not so much a butt crevasse but a flaming liberal.

That's actually becoming a part of American politics - demanding quality information is somehow liberal. That's fine for rhetoric or talk shows, but you see that when it matters . . . like in a courtroom . . . simply saying the same bullshirt that you say in your rhetoric or evening talkshows isn't going to be persuasive in a professional context.

Unless you're in front of a Trump-appointed judge.

 

[DaveXA]

Unless you're in front of a Trump-appointed judge.

The thing is, even the Trump appointed judges are finding Trump's claims laughable. At least it seems that way so far.

 

[wardorican]

Not so much a butt crevasse but a flaming liberal.

That's actually becoming a part of American politics - demanding quality information is somehow liberal. That's fine for rhetoric or talk shows, but you see that when it matters . . . like in a courtroom . . . simply saying the same bullshirt that you say in your rhetoric or evening talkshows isn't going to be persuasive in a professional context.

Or in engineering, design, failure analysis, accident investigation...

 

[MT15]

Matthew Sheffield gave a recent interview, here are some excerpts

 

[MT15]

And I like this commentary from Obama’s new book

 

[zztop]

And I like this commentary from Obama’s new book

Yep. I remember back then John Boehner and company raking Obama over the coals every chance they got. At the time I thought he was a loathsome piece of garbage, and thought it possible couldn't get any lower than what he was doing. Then ol' turtle Mitch said "hold my beer"