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Neworleansfan

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I saw it explained as a common thing. Someone could easily come and sign in to vote, then the line is too long they run out of time and leave before voting. The city of Detroit had less “discrepancies“ than the nearby city of Livonia, I read. Wonder why they singled out Detroit? 🙄

Full clip:
No disagreement from me.
 

Brandon13

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I have difficulty believing that they're, in reality, that severely short-sighted.



Cowards and enablers? For sure. But for now I'm still believing that the Republicans in the Senate know that accepting a Biden presidency is the superior long-term decision for them rather than attempting to overturn a (not so close) election via an unprecedented use of selecting new electors. Even as shirtty as what they're currently doing is, blatantly going on and attempting to steal the election that way would still be a major escalation from where we are now.



I think it's pathetic but I think it's posturing mostly for the Georgia Senate race... But we do very much need to have more leaders in the party come forward this week and accept reality. Because at some point it does stop justbeing a posture.
I feel like I should probably amend this take already:

While I do still think that a lot of this from Republicans, at least the ones in the Senate, is happening because of the Georgia Senate races, it's also pretty clear that Trump has been testing to see who is willing to act as active co-conspirators in his attempt to overturn the voting will of only certain people in only certain states in order to steal the election.. and Lindsay Graham naturally has lept at this opportunity.

And that's where the real danger with this lies I think, and where I probably sounded a bit more flippant than intended in my earlier post.. that while you do have some important Republicans in this process like the Secretary of State in Georgia acting appropriately and with honor.. the silence and refusal to deal with the reality of the situation by Republicans who know better has only allowed Trump to drive the wedge even further and to push this actually real attempt to steal the election to such a ridiculous point that Rudy Giuliani is now heading up their lawsuits.. and yet they still won't acknowledge reality.

At some point here soon, probably even now, their refusal to acknowledge the truth regardless of their reasoning ultimately leads to them being complicit with Trump's blatant attempts here.
 

Saint by the Bay

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Thoughts?

Not a single ounce of sympathy. If you're an Esper or Mattis who refused to play the Dear Leader game, I see you. If you fiddled while our Constitution and institutions burned, well, what I have to say would be an infraction, but the second word is you.
 

DaveXA

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Well, with that in mind, I do not feel any anguish or sympathy for them at all. They have failed us all as well as themselves with their inactions.
Well I do. There is a dilemma many in those positions face. Do they up an leave and not participate in it and leaving a vacuum for someone with lesser ethics, or do they stay and try to be buffers that can potentially resist when the time comes? People in various positions can have different rationalizations about why/how they respond in different situations.

There's no easy way to navigate it, and it's very often not obvious what the right way is to handle a given situation. Until you're in the middle of it, you don't really know. I don't know how some of them sleep at night, and I suspect some don't. I wouldn't want to be in those shoes.
 

DaveXA

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Not a single ounce of sympathy. If you're an Esper or Mattis who refused to play the Dear Leader game, I see you. If you fiddled while our Constitution and institutions burned, well, what I have to say would be an infraction, but the second word is you.
I don't disagree, but not all positions are created equal. Some positions afford that ability, and others don't. The greater the responsibility, the greater the accountability should be. I don't have sympathy for those who are in positions to be able to do something about it. But I do have sympathy for those who are close to situations with no ability to hold someone accountable. Sometimes it's not obvious.
 

DJ1BigTymer

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Well I do. There is a dilemma many in those positions face. Do they up an leave and not participate in it and leaving a vacuum for someone with lesser ethics, or do they stay and try to be buffers that can potentially resist when the time comes? People in various positions can have different rationalizations about why/how they respond in different situations.

There's no easy way to navigate it, and it's very often not obvious what the right way is to handle a given situation. Until you're in the middle of it, you don't really know. I don't know how some of them sleep at night, and I suspect some don't. I wouldn't want to be in those shoes.
There is a third option, they could have spoken out by raising their concern to Congress instead of taking it upon themselves to be a "buffer" or "guardrails". They could have forced congressional Republicans to put the Country first instead of bending over for Dear Leader.
 

Saint by the Bay

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I don't disagree, but not all positions are created equal. Some positions afford that ability, and others don't. The greater the responsibility, the greater the accountability should be. I don't have sympathy for those who are in positions to be able to do something about it. But I do have sympathy for those who are close to situations with no ability to hold someone accountable. Sometimes it's not obvious.
It says, appointees. Those aren't folks in the bowels of the government just trying to eek out a living, this is the top of the political class. You don't get to that point if you don't have a voice and know how to play the game. Plus they all chose to accept the appointment, and they knew who he was. We all did. We all have since the 80's.

There were levers they could have pulled to raise alarms. There were moves that could have been made to force Republicans into pretending they cared about the country to save face. We saw many others walk out on that plank, people with courage. I can't feel sorry for those more concerned with having two nickels to rub together or more concerned with access to power than their country.
 

DaveXA

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Not a single ounce of sympathy. If you're an Esper or Mattis who refused to play the Dear Leader game, I see you. If you fiddled while our Constitution and institutions burned, well, what I have to say would be an infraction, but the second word is you.
And to be sure, there are more than a few Espers and Mattises out there. We just don't hear a lot about the ones who are doing their work well and with integrity.
 

DaveXA

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It says, appointees. Those aren't folks in the bowels of the government just trying to eek out a living, this is the top of the political class. You don't get to that point if you don't have a voice and know how to play the game. Plus they all chose to accept the appointment, and they knew who he was. We all did. We all have since the 80's.

There were levers they could have pulled to raise alarms. There were moves that could have been made to force Republicans into pretending they cared about the country to save face. We saw many others walk out on that plank, people with courage. I can't feel sorry for those more concerned with having two nickels to rub together or more concerned with access to power than their country.
Well, the list of appointees who have either been fired or resigned is quite long. I just saw a graphic and was kind of shocked at how long it was after less than 4 years.

And fwiw, pointing out about appointees is good. I was thinking in broader terms, so yeah.
 

DaveXA

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There is a third option, they could have spoken out by raising their concern to Congress instead of taking it upon themselves to be a "buffer" or "guardrails". They could have forced congressional Republicans to put the Country first instead of bending over for Dear Leader.
Some did go that route too, so indeed.
 

wardorican

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There is a third option, they could have spoken out by raising their concern to Congress instead of taking it upon themselves to be a "buffer" or "guardrails". They could have forced congressional Republicans to put the Country first instead of bending over for Dear Leader.
Those power hungry jackals would have just stabbed them in the back to curry favor with Trump. Congress isn't interested in collective power anymore.
 

wardorican

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It says, appointees. Those aren't folks in the bowels of the government just trying to eek out a living, this is the top of the political class. You don't get to that point if you don't have a voice and know how to play the game. Plus they all chose to accept the appointment, and they knew who he was. We all did. We all have since the 80's.

There were levers they could have pulled to raise alarms. There were moves that could have been made to force Republicans into pretending they cared about the country to save face. We saw many others walk out on that plank, people with courage. I can't feel sorry for those more concerned with having two nickels to rub together or more concerned with access to power than their country.
We all face times where we have to confront our management/leaders to urge certain decisions, especially when we feel like they aren't considering the right ethics, safety, or quality. Not everyone is up for that task.
 

DJ1BigTymer

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Those power hungry jackals would have just stabbed them in the back to curry favor with Trump. Congress isn't interested in collective power anymore.
Unfortunately, that is very true. It's also true that their voters are more to blame than those in congress, especially those in the House.
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.
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Now that I have read that last sentence, I have to take that back because the voters really didn't chose their representatives, the representatives choose them.
 

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