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    EmBeeFiveOhFour

    EmBeeFiveOhFour

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    The football board had the very useful Daily Trump Tracker thread, which was a good place to briefly discuss the latest ridiculous thing that might have ended 97% of prior Presidential administrations even if it didn't necessarily justify an entire thread devoted to it in 2017-2019 (because of the sheer volume of these things). Since I don't see anything like that here already, I'll add one myself.
     
    Dadsdream said:
    I'm familiar with it. Camp Cook is in Ball, LA, which is not in the Sparta Aquifer's coverage area.
    Ball, LA gets most of its water from a surface water treatment plant, not wells.
    1577471426089.png

    Ground-Water Models of the Alluvial and Sparta Aquifers: Management Tools for a Sustainable Resource

    Ground-Water Models of the Alluvial and Sparta Aquifers: Management Tools for a Sustainable Resource
    pubs.usgs.gov

    I took my showers at home. It was the 200 troops coming in from a week of living in the woods that suffered.
    The inspection which mandated that we install water saver shower heads was roughly 1994 - 1995.
    Click to expand...

    I’ve spent my share of time at Beauregard. So, i’m familiar with Ball.

    Even the map you posted places Ball within spitting distance of the aquifer’s service area.

    Maybe low flow shower heads weren’t necessary at Camp Cook, but it’s not a good example of regulation run amuck. That general area benefitted from water conservation efforts.
     
    Dadsdream said:
    If properly supplemented with Atlas Shrugged . . . if you can manage to keep them awake.
    Click to expand...

    I remember reading Atlas Shrugged in high school and thinking it was brilliant.

    Read it again about 15 years later and realized how stupid and naive I was back then.

    Owners are not producers.
     
    samiam5211 said:
    I remember reading Atlas Shrugged in high school and thinking it was brilliant.

    Read it again about 15 years later and realized how stupid and naive I was back then.

    Owners are not producers.
    Click to expand...
    same, I read Ayn Rand bc of Rush
    i started on Anthem and liked it - i then moved on to Atlas Shrugged sr year in HS
    one of the priests saw it and mentioned, 'you know that's kind of the opposite of what we're teaching here, right?'
    i mumbled an indication that i did, but i really wasn't getting much of the broader context
    now i know what he was talking about
     
    Dadsdream said:
    In this case, he's right.

    True story: $10,000 absolutely wasted because of government over-regulation.

    At a barracks at Camp Cook, the federal government made the Louisiana National Guard install water saver shower heads in all the showers. I was there when the inspectors from Washington D.C. found us guilty of not following federal guidelines to have water saver shower heads.

    There was no water shortage. We're talking about Louisiana here. Hell, we had just dumped 30,000 gallons and from the swimming pool and refilled it so it would be clean for the inspection and these morons want us to save 1 gallon per soldier per shower?

    Regulations are regulations, so we hired a contractor and replaced all the shower heads.

    Soldiers came in from spending a week in the woods fighting war games at Camp Livingston. A light mist of water would not do the job. Not even close. At first they got water hoses and ran them in from outside.

    But, most soldiers these days have multi-tools, so they disassembled $10,000 worth of water saver shower heads and removed the diffusion plates. I found the parts in the trash cans. They'd been careful not to damage the outsides of the shower shower heads, so you couldn't tell.

    But, the formalities of following federal water saving regulations had been applied in Louisiana in a place and time where there was no shortage of water at all . . . $10,000 literally down the drain.

    Yes, DJT's example is disjointed. But, that doesn't make him wrong, at least not in this case.
    Click to expand...

    There are probably a few examples of poorly designed water saving appliances. But there are far more good examples. Heck, the low flow showers our town gave out for free are just as good as the regular shower
    heads we had when we moved here.

    Lower energy using and lower water using dishwashers and laundry washers, are from my educated guess, more likely to be misused rather than ineffective. The problem is so many devices nowadays are over complicated. Too many buttons, dials, and options for grandma and grandpa to run the machine.

    The toilets with two buttons, one for less water (urine) the other for more water for bigger jobs.

    I think auto flushing toilets likely waste a lot of water. Move a little and you may get extra flushes.

    Poor maintenance is a big factor when you add it all up.

    In your example, if the regulation was that every single military installation get those installed, it's not just about water conservation, but saving money. If you can save 1 gallon for every soldier/sailor/airmen/marine per day, that's millions of gallons saved a day.
     
    wardorican said:
    There are probably a few examples of poorly designed water saving appliances. But there are far more good examples. Heck, the low flow showers our town gave out for free are just as good as the regular shower
    heads we had when we moved here.

    Lower energy using and lower water using dishwashers and laundry washers, are from my educated guess, more likely to be misused rather than ineffective. The problem is so many devices nowadays are over complicated. Too many buttons, dials, and options for grandma and grandpa to run the machine.

    The toilets with two buttons, one for less water (urine) the other for more water for bigger jobs.

    I think auto flushing toilets likely waste a lot of water. Move a little and you may get extra flushes.

    Poor maintenance is a big factor when you add it all up.

    In your example, if the regulation was that every single military installation get those installed, it's not just about water conservation, but saving money. If you can save 1 gallon for every soldier/sailor/airmen/marine per day, that's millions of gallons saved a day.
    Click to expand...
    Cost per 10,000 gallons of water from the surface water treatment plant run by Rapides Parish Water Works District # 3 (a political subdivision of the State of Louisiana) at rates charged to our state-owned facility meant that the $10,000 investment in water saver shower heads would not be recouped within my lifetime, we calculated.

    But, if all you want is feel good mandatory spending, it's a winner, I guess.
     
    Last edited:
    Dadsdream said:
    Cost per 10,000 gallons of water from the surface water treatment plant run by Rapides Parish Water Works District # 3 (a political subdivision of the State of Louisiana) at rates charged to our state-owned facility meant that the $10,000 investment in water saver shower heads would not be recouped within my lifetime, we calculated.

    But, if all you want is feel good mandatory spending, it's a winner, I guess.
    Click to expand...
    What is or was the cost?

    We get charged per 1k gallons here residential...
     
    wardorican said:
    What is or was the cost?

    We get charged per 1k gallons here residential...
    Click to expand...
    State of Louisiana water district charging a State of Louisiana installation? At cost.

    Looking at their website, residential rates just went up from $14 per 2,000 gal to $16.50 per 2,000 recently. Anything over 2,000 gallons is $4.35 more.

    At 200 soldiers, occupying the barracks roughly 200 days per year, the annual savings with water saver shower heads was 40,000 gallons, which we calculated at $50 per year, which would require 200 years to break even financially. Adjusting for inflation, you never break even. It's a net loss.

    I'm the guy who was taking notes when the inspectors walked through.
    I'm the guy who priced the shower head installation and brought in the contractor.
    I'm the guy who wrote the justification letter to the state auditors (they laughed and signed off, just to keep the federal dollars flowing through the state-owned institution).
    I'm the guy who found the disassembled shower head parts in the trash cans when the soldiers took matters into their own hands after spending a week in the Louisiana pine woods and trying to get their bodies clean using just a light mist.
    I'm the guy who put the parts on the commander's desk and informed him of what had taken place.
    I'm the guy who took the parts off the commander's desk and disposed of them, with the understanding that we would never speak of it again.

    Just trust me.
     
    Last edited:
    Dadsdream said:
    State of Louisiana water district charging a State of Louisiana installation? At cost.

    Looking at their website, residential rates just went up from $14 per 2,000 gal to $16.50 per 2,000 recently. Anything over 2,000 gallons is $4.35 more.

    At 200 soldiers, occupying the barracks roughly 200 days per year, the annual savings with water saver shower heads was 40,000 gallons, which we calculated at $50 per year, which would require 200 years to break even financially. Adjusting for inflation, you never break even. It's a net loss.

    I'm the guy who was taking notes when the inspectors walked through.
    I'm the guy who priced the shower head installation and brought in the contractor.
    I'm the guy who wrote the justification letter to the state auditors (they laughed and signed off, just to keep the federal dollars flowing through the state-owned institution).
    I'm the guy who found the disassembled shower head parts in the trash cans when the soldiers took matters into their own hands after spending a week in the Louisiana pine woods and trying to get their bodies clean using just a light mist.
    I'm the guy who put the parts on the commander's desk and informed him of what had taken place.
    I'm the guy who took the parts off the commander's desk and disposed of them, with the understanding that we would never speak of it again.

    Just trust me.
    Click to expand...

    I essentially work in quality control and verification. I don't trust anyone fully.

    Trust, but verify. Those water rates are crazy cheap. So much more expensive here.

    btw, glad you reported it to your commander. That was the right thing to do. And I don't mind that he just made it go away, if they really were that ineffective.

    However, I'm not aware of any high efficiency dish washers that do a crappy job. Every once in a while, you get some baked on stuff that just won't come off, without elbow grease. Odds are it is user error or a maintenance issue (like clogged or the user never runs a clean cycle with vinegar and baking soda).

    Sometimes the dollars and cents make sense and give an added incentive, sometimes the incentive is just using less of our natural resources.
     
    wardorican said:
    I essentially work in quality control and verification. I don't trust anyone fully.

    Trust, but verify. Those water rates are crazy cheap. So much more expensive here.

    btw, glad you reported it to your commander. That was the right thing to do. And I don't mind that he just made it go away, if they really were that ineffective.

    However, I'm not aware of any high efficiency dish washers that do a crappy job. Every once in a while, you get some baked on stuff that just won't come off, without elbow grease. Odds are it is user error or a maintenance issue (like clogged or the user never runs a clean cycle with vinegar and baking soda).

    Sometimes the dollars and cents make sense and give an added incentive, sometimes the incentive is just using less of our natural resources.
    Click to expand...
    Cool. Yes, even though it was a net loss, the state auditors signed off on it because, well, the feds were pumping a few $ million through the place because of the federal missions conducted there. The state simply sliced $10K off of that for the shower heads as the cost of doing business with the feds.

    Yes, when the soldiers ran a water hose in through the window, that told us all we needed to know about how ineffective the showers were.

    Euphemistically speaking, my role was that of an arms bearer on safari. Carry the rifles and ammo for the boss. Keep them cleaned and dry and ready. Acquire target and inform the boss. Load the rifle and hand it to the boss. The boss takes the shot and hands the rifle back and tells me to check the kill. It's the boss's kill, not mine. I just carry the rifles and ammo and inform regarding the effectiveness of the shot! :9:
     
    Dadsdream said:
    Cost per 10,000 gallons of water from the surface water treatment plant run by Rapides Parish Water Works District # 3 (a political subdivision of the State of Louisiana) at rates charged to our state-owned facility meant that the $10,000 investment in water saver shower heads would not be recouped within my lifetime, we calculated.

    But, if all you want is feel good mandatory spending, it's a winner, I guess.
    Click to expand...

    That's the direct cost of the water coming from a subsidized entity. It's not the complete cost and it isn't a very good indicator of potential savings over an entire nation. More importantly, the investment in policy over a national entity isn't tailored to unique localities and the waste of time and resources necessary to avoid this one colloquial example you've cited would be orders more and inconsistent to the point of being ridiculous.
     
    Optimus Prime said:
    The Trump administration is seeking to delay a Democratic effort to require the Secret Service to disclose how much it spends protecting President Trump and his family when they travel — until after the 2020 election, according to people familiar with the discussions......

    Click to expand...
    No matter how blatant he is at hiding things from the American people, his supporters still won't find any problem with it.
     
    samiam5211 said:
    To them, he’s only hiding it from the liberal witch hunters.

    He’s not hiding it from them because they don’t care. If fact, he’s hiding it for them.
    Click to expand...
    Democrats suck at playing this political game against Republicans. If they want to keep it from the populace until after the election, Democrats should simply estimate a number as fact and go with it, repeating it daily and accusing them of getting fat off the taxpayer. Make them deny it and prove them wrong. If they won't, then the number being repeated becomes the number that was spent unless and until shown to be wrong. It's the trumplican way.
     
    Saintamaniac said:
    Democrats suck at playing this political game against Republicans. If they want to keep it from the populace until after the election, Democrats should simply estimate a number as fact and go with it, repeating it daily and accusing them of getting fat off the taxpayer. Make them deny it and prove them wrong. If they won't, then the number being repeated becomes the number that was spent unless and until shown to be wrong. It's the trumplican way.
    Click to expand...
    You're right. This kid gloves approach allows him to continue to control the entire narrative. Just how the whistle blower forced him to release the funds for Ukraine and that "transcript" of his perfect phone call, put some inflated number out there and keep repeating it until he disproves it.
     
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