Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[UriUT]

I think what concerns most people is that the institutions held against Trump during his first term, but just barely and thanks in large part to the judiciary, whereas Rs in the Legislative basically aided and abetted or silently permitted his worst abuses. In a second term, he will not be less constrained.

I agree that a second term is unlikely.

I wish I had y’all’s certainty. In a popular vote yes. But the electoral system is far more finicky. Biden won by less than 100k votes.

 

[Incumbent]

I am sure you meant won’t approve. But that won’t stop trump as he has already placed “acting” secretaries in position of power despite the senate, a republican one not approving his choice.

I did and corrected it. He appointed acting secretaries during the upheaval of his final days in office. Secretaries eventually have to be approved but I guess we can debate how much damage can be done in the interim - and we probably won’t disagree.

 

[Booker]

Yeah, unless the Democrats have a 2/3rds majority, it will be more of the same.

Well that's not going to happen. With the 2024 elections they'll be lucky just to hold the seats they have. Meaning Joe Biden's electibility is basically our firewall against another term where Trump would surely try to go full third world.

 

[MT15]

In my opinion, Democrats crossed that bridge long ago under the Clinton administration, and then burned it when Trump came out of show biz to beat the presumptive next Democratic president.

I don't consider jury nullification a way to not fight fair. Not in every case, anyway. Maybe none.

In the Trump trial, if several jury members believe that Trump is guilty of the charges, but vote not guilty because of their perception that the government has been weaponized against him and that others equally guilty were not even prosecuted, I don't see any unfairness in that.

Whether Republicans on jury continue to apply such nullifications depends on whether the Democrats continue to prosecute members of the opposing party, following the examples of third world dictatorships.

If Republicans ever do the same, I would expect nullificaton to be expected of Democrats on juries, and that they be treated as heroes and given book deals.

Just as I postulated earlier, the rule of law in America means nothing to you. Whataboutism is no excuse to abandon the oath a juror swears and the entire American justice system.

 

[UriUT]

I think what concerns most people is that the institutions held against Trump during his first term, but just barely and thanks in large part to the judiciary, whereas Rs in the Legislative basically aided and abetted or silently permitted his worst abuses. In a second term, he will not be less constrained.

I agree that a second term is unlikely.

Trump has already said he will transform the doj and fbi if he’s elected. Fire those who won’t agree with him. He even said he will go after his political opponents using this new law enforcement.

 

[Incumbent]

I wish I had y’all’s certainty. In a popular vote yes. But the electoral system is far more finicky. Biden won by less than 100k votes.

Don’t take anything I’m saying as optimistic or unconcerned.

 

[DaveXA]

Well that's not going to happen. With the 2024 elections they'll be lucky just to hold the seats they have. Meaning Joe Biden's electibility is basically our firewall against another term where Trump would surely try to go full third world.

Oh no doubt it's not happening. And I agree, pinning all our hope on Biden to get elected is definitely not a comfortable position to be in, but here we are.

 

[MT15]

I wish I had y’all’s certainty. In a popular vote yes. But the electoral system is far more finicky. Biden won by less than 100k votes.

I agree. I am concerned, I am maybe a bit too optimistic by nature, lol.

 

[DaveXA]

Trump has already said he will transform the doj and fbi if he’s elected. Fire those who won’t agree with him. He even said he will go after his political opponents using this new law enforcement.

He already did that when he was President. It would be nothing new if he somehow is President again.

 

[DaveXA]

I agree. I am concerned, I am maybe a bit too optimistic by nature, lol.

Yep, I'm not too concerned...yet. That might change as we get closer to the election, but right now, it's one day at a time.

 

[SFIDC3]

I wonder whether a Trump supporter on this board, freely expressing his or her views, could ever be safe from an accusation of lying about his or her own opinions.

Probably not, because most here are smart enough to realize that the one of the ways cult members rationalize being in a cult is to constantly lie to themselves (and others)....you are certainly no exception....congrats!!!!!

 

[Lapaz]

There was one trial (at least) where the jury contained at least one Trump supporter and she voted for the prosecution because she believed they proved their case. It was probably a civil trial, I’m having trouble remembering the exact one. We only know about this because she voluntarily said so.

I’ve served on two juries, although it was long ago, and in both cases the juries took their instructions very seriously. We didn’t talk about those things we were instructed not to consider.

I think jury nullification being brought up by our Trump supporter is a bit of wishcasting, and maybe a bit of a tell about the integrity of Trump supporters, lol.

Expecting normalcy is wishcasting. It is one thing for a Trump supporter to convict some random person. If is wholly different to convict Trump. Trump is their symbol of revolt. I don’t think there is much likelihood of one of his supporters convicting him. They don’t think rationally when he is involved. Look at Snarky’s comments. He has justified nullification. I also think they will follow his requests to nullify other cases to “help” the cause. The foundation of our Justice system is vulnerable and at stake.

 

[Lapaz]

It will be ugly, absolutely, but we'll survive. It just seems silly to me to say we won't. People are more resilient than that.

And again, I think it's a moot discussion because I doubt Trump can win the general election.

The attempted coup didn't work, and Trump probably won't get elected. Not the end of the world.

This is the optimistic and hopeful view, but it is also ignoring or minimizing the threat. We have strong institutions, but he weakened them when he had some deterrents. He will be much more emboldened if he gets back in. It’ll be another level of a test to the Republic. Many independents will minimize the threat to justify voting for Trump. People need to appreciate the threat that a 2nd Trump term poses. It’ll be worldwide disaster.

 

[Lapaz]

I did and corrected it. He appointed acting secretaries during the upheaval of his final days in office. Secretaries eventually have to be approved but I guess we can debate how much damage can be done in the interim - and we probably won’t disagree.

I didn’t know there was a constitutional requirement to replace acting leaders. Can you link the law?

 

[Snarky Sack]

Probably not, because most here are smart enough to realize that the one of the ways cult members rationalize being in a cult is to constantly lie to themselves (and others)....you are certainly no exception....congrats!!!!!

I have my answer then.

Rather, I have confirmation of the answer I already knew.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Is anyone considering supporting Newsome as the Democratic nominee?

I know it would be very painful to dump both Biden and Harris, but they may be band aids that need to be torn off sooner rather than later, if the primary goal is to defeat Trump.

I'm also wondering if anyone's thought process is: 'That would be giving into the Republicans and their fake accusations against Biden. That would only encourage more fake accusations.'

 

[brandon]

Is anyone considering supporting Newsome as the Democratic nominee?

I know it would be very painful to dump both Biden and Harris, but they may be band aids that need to be torn off sooner rather than later, if the primary goal is to defeat Trump.

I'm also wondering if anyone's thought process is: 'That would be giving into the Republicans and their fake accusations against Biden. That would only encourage more fake accusations.'

I am fascinated by all of our Republicans telling us who we should run.

 

[UriUT]

I didn’t know there was a constitutional requirement to replace acting leaders. Can you link the law?

They have time period when they can serve as acting secretaries/deputy etc. But trump knows litigation takes forever. Chad wolf is an example. He was ruled in 2020 that he was illegally placed. That didn't matter as he had already done trumps bidding. I forget how long he served. Over the allowed period...