Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[UriUT]

Sorry, but no, Jan 6, as terrible as it was didn't almost destroy the country. That's just a gross exaggeration of what Jan 6 was. It was certainly an attempted coup and Trump should have been charged with inciting an insurrection and treason, but it didn't come close to overthrowing the government, and I don't buy that it would happen even if Trump is in office. There's no mechanism by which he could do that. He'd need enough supporters in both houses of Congress, and a SCOTUS ignoring law and precedent for that to happen.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but highly unlikely.

All that said, it's probably moot because I'm not seeing Trump getting elected again.

you do understand that pence was the only reason we had a peaceful transition of power? They had fake electors lined up. Trump had an acting sec of def that for some reason cannot immediately respond to the “rioters” that threatened our elected leaders. There was a report that had there been a counter protest, the national guard was to be deployed to protect maga “rioters”. And this was documented; had the case been accepted at the Supreme Court, trump had a justice in his pocket. This was from interviews with his lawyers. I don’t think you understand the magnitude and how close we were to losing our constitutional republic.

 

[Booker]

 

[UriUT]

If Trump somehow steals the election - concerns over voting access and integrity - we are going to need a senate that is a firewall between the administration and our country. Trump will assuredly surround himself with sycophants enabling his malicious intentions. Those people are out there and they aren’t hiding their fealty.

There are still many people who need to take these threats to our country far more seriously.

Sorry, but Trump makes a mockery of our constitution. Our senate did nothing when he raised a middle finger to their consent when he installed all those acting cabinet posts. Wolf, sec def, nearly a attorney general that will not abide by the law until the doj revolted. Remember this is to replace his sycophant Barr. Many many more. If he somehow wins, we are forked.

 

[UriUT]

Speaking of wolf and the abundance of lack of shame for living in an alternative reality, in his hearing recently, Chad wolf denies there was a child separation policy when clearly we have migrant children separated from their parents.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I’m about to slit my wrists with Occam’s Razor.

I regret if my posts have a negative effect on you. I appreciate that you are willing to interact with me, having previously vowed not to.

Sorry, but Trump makes a mockery of our constitution. Our senate did nothing when he raised a middle finger to their consent when he installed all those acting cabinet posts. Wolf, sec def, nearly a attorney general that will not abide by the law until the doj revolted. Remember this is to replace his sycophant Barr. Many many more. If he somehow wins, we are forked.

The DOJ revolted against the president? I've very interested to know enough details that I can look that up.

 

[Lapaz]

I think the jury nullification factor is overblown. It might possibly happen, but i believe it's pretty rare. This being what it is probably makes it more likely, but I still don't think it's all that likely to affect the trial if there is one.

I think that is wishful thinking. I think it is highly likely. Watch for the Vegas odds. I bet the odds are more likely then not. Then the concern will be the ripple effect. Also, will Trump deploy that weapon to help his allies. If so, how does the rest of civil society react? Will laws have to be changed to counteract the lone nullifiers? It is dangerous.

 

[Incumbent]

Sorry, but Trump makes a mockery of our constitution. Our senate did nothing when he raised a middle finger to their consent when he installed all those acting cabinet posts. Wolf, sec def, nearly a attorney general that will not abide by the law until the doj revolted. Remember this is to replace his sycophant Barr. Many many more. If he somehow wins, we are forked.

Not sure what you’re sorry about, we’re in agreement. A Trump win and a flipped senate would be a disaster for this country. I should have been more clear; the senate as firewall is under democratic leadership.

 

[DaveXA]

What if the rioters had actually killed Pence? What if they had actually succeeded in preventing the transition of power? What if they had taken hostages and called in other Trump acolytes? We weren’t far from that. The coup almost succeeded. Also, Trump can lead nullifications to undermine the Justice system whether he is president or not. That has the potential to destroy the country more slowly due to the corruption that won’t be preventable.

It didn't happen, and considering he was protected by layers of security, it's unlikely that would have happened even if they tried to. And Congressional members were escorted to a secure part of the Capitol before the rioters made their way to the legislative chambers.

And how exactly would they have prevented the transfer of power without any sort of military and government backing?

Taking hostages wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Maybe a few dead people, but if that happens, you'd have the national guard surrounding the building, then they would just sweep the building and probably arrest or kill anyone not surrendering after taking people hostage. It would have been tragic, but ultimately pointless.

And no, it didn't almost succeed. Not even close. Even had Pence gone along with Trump, that would have gone nowhere since it would have technically been invalid and would certainly have been challenged in the courts. There was no legal precedent for Pence to do what Trump wanted, and Pence understood that.

And again, you're making it sound like Trump can game the system to his advantage via jury nullification. It didn't work in the Carroll sexual abuse case and I tend to think it won't work in the current case. I think it's a long shot at best.

 

[UriUT]

Not sure what you’re sorry about, we’re in agreement. A Trump win and a flipped senate would be a disaster for this country. I should have been more clear; the senate as firewall is under democratic leadership.

I don’t think we will survive unless there is a strong 2/3 majority in the senate. He will just do what he did at the tail end and put his yes men in acting power.

 

[Taurus]

Not sure what you’re sorry about, we’re in agreement. A Trump win and a flipped senate would be a disaster for this country. I should have been more clear; the senate as firewall is under democratic leadership.

I think his argument is that a Dem Senate isn't really a firewall. They'll just roll over again.

 

[MT15]

I think the jury nullification factor is overblown. It might possibly happen, but i believe it's pretty rare. This being what it is probably makes it more likely, but I still don't think it's all that likely to affect the trial if there is one.

There was one trial (at least) where the jury contained at least one Trump supporter and she voted for the prosecution because she believed they proved their case. It was probably a civil trial, I’m having trouble remembering the exact one. We only know about this because she voluntarily said so.

I’ve served on two juries, although it was long ago, and in both cases the juries took their instructions very seriously. We didn’t talk about those things we were instructed not to consider.

I think jury nullification being brought up by our Trump supporter is a bit of wishcasting, and maybe a bit of a tell about the integrity of Trump supporters, lol.

 

[Incumbent]

I think his argument is that a Dem Senate isn't really a firewall. They'll just roll over again.

A Democratic senate isn’t going to approve wholly unqualified officials.

(Edited for correction)

 

[DaveXA]

Didn’t even have to be that serious with regards to Pence. If he followed instructions to get in the car, certification is halted. He knew that and did the right thing. That’s how close we were to ending up in a real crisis.

Eh, not really, they just postpone the certification and go back to it the following day or whenever. There was discussion among Congressional leaders on whether to postpone the certification, and they decided to complete it that evening after they were sure the Capitol was secured.

 

[UriUT]

A Democratic senate is going to approve wholly unqualified officials.

I am sure you meant won’t approve. But that won’t stop trump as he has already placed “acting” secretaries in position of power despite the senate, a republican one not approving his choice.

 

[DaveXA]

I don’t think we will survive unless there is a strong 2/3 majority in the senate. He will just do what he did at the tail end and put his yes men in acting power.

It will be ugly, absolutely, but we'll survive. It just seems silly to me to say we won't. People are more resilient than that.

And again, I think it's a moot discussion because I doubt Trump can win the general election.

The attempted coup didn't work, and Trump probably won't get elected. Not the end of the world.

 

[Booker]

I think his argument is that a Dem Senate isn't really a firewall. They'll just roll over again.

A Democratic senate is going to approve wholly unqualified officials.

It's not that they'd approve them, it's just that he'd place them as "acting" and not bother with getting approval. His whole term was "I'm not supposed to do that? Here, watch me." Dems protested, and Republicans either laughed and said "he's the president, what are you gonna do about it?" or just kept quiet and let it happen.

 

[DaveXA]

I think his argument is that a Dem Senate isn't really a firewall. They'll just roll over again.

Yeah, unless the Democrats have a 2/3rds majority, it will be more of the same.

 

[MT15]

It might possibly destroy the country, but I think we're resilient enough to weather 4 years of Trump. We survived the 4 years of his Administration and weaponizing the DOJ is nothing new for Trump. Remember, he said he'd go after Hillary in 2016 and "lock her up" became a mantra for his supporters. He's gonna take the same approach with Biden.

All that said, I don't think we're making the mistake of a Trump Administration again, and if we do, we deserve whatever comes of it.

I think what concerns most people is that the institutions held against Trump during his first term, but just barely and thanks in large part to the judiciary, whereas Rs in the Legislative basically aided and abetted or silently permitted his worst abuses. In a second term, he will not be less constrained.

I agree that a second term is unlikely.