Trump floats claims for Canada, Greenland, and the Panama Canal (Update: Trump wants Gaza too) (6 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Oh, but he's only joking - well, maybe, so they say. Or sort of joking with Canada, and maybe not joking with Greenland - saying that "ownership and control of Greenland is an absolute necessity" doesn't sound like a joke . . . and um, not sure about what the about Panama Canal thing is?

Trump Jokes Canada Becoming 51st US State 'A Great Idea'

US President-elect Donald Trump said Wednesday it would be "a great idea" for Canada to become the 51st US state, teasing on social media that "many Canadians" welcome the idea, as Ottawa is wracked by a political crisis.

www.barrons.com

Trump threatens to try to take back the Panama Canal. Panama's president balks at the suggestion

Trump didn't explain how such a takeover would be possible, given that the U.S. relinquished control of the canal to Panama in 1999 under a treaty signed by President Jimmy Carter in 1977.

apnews.com

 

[SaintRob]

Occupying or "owning" Gaza. Calling Canada the 51st state. Threatening military action to take Greenland and the Panama Canal. Trade war tariffs with Canada, Mexico, and Colombia (and to a somewhat lesser extent, China).

Canada, Greenland, and Panama all hate this. The Gaza thing is appalling. Just the threat of this is going in inflame terrorists. Denmark and other European countries are taking stances against the US.

Then there is the pulling out of WHO, the Paris Agreement, the UN Human Rights Council, and I'm sure I'm missing others.

This is destabilizing the world and making the US an enemy of just about everyone. We're attacking our closest allies and making them almost enemies and making our current enemies bigger enemies.

This is insanity!

 

[RobF]

This sounds to me like an initial offer. It starts a conversation on the fate of Gaza.

I don’t believe the two state solution is viable any longer. So what happens next?

Gaza has been destroyed. I don’t know but I would bet that many Gaza residents would be open to resettling somewhere safe where they can make a living. I can’t see them living in Gaza for a decade while they rebuild. I also don’t think the Israelis are all that interested in things going back to where they were. So where do they go. Nobody wants them.

How do you get to a peaceful Gaza? Obviously the dynamic must be changed. But how?

So the conversation begins. It was inevitable. I think what Trump and BiBi are saying is that things aren’t going back to the two state solution. I think that is off the table.

It was never credible to begin with, but the above excuse for what is clearly a call for ethnic cleansing makes a complete mockery of your claim that:

I make no excuses for Trump.

 

[superchuck500]

one of us is an Attorney by trade. Care to guess who's who?

LOLOLOL.

The character count alone . . . lol

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

None of this Gaza stuff he’s bloviating about will ever come to pass.. feel free to quote me for posterity, i always leave open the possibility i may be wrong.. but the Gaza stuff is succeeding (mostly) in distracting attention while Musk and his bodyguards literally force their way into the treasury with a bunch of nerds and hack their way into all of our financial information.. they have sensitive info on all of us now.. if they want to stop payments on whatever, they can do it.. our country’s being hijacked and yes, the Gaza thing needs to be covered, but right now if the USA is a house, then the house is on fire .

 

[faceman]

Occupying or "owning" Gaza. Calling Canada the 51st state. Threatening military action to take Greenland and the Panama Canal. Trade war tariffs with Canada, Mexico, and Colombia (and to a somewhat lesser extent, China).

Canada, Greenland, and Panama all hate this. The Gaza thing is appalling. Just the threat of this is going in inflame terrorists. Denmark and other European countries are taking stances against the US.

Then there is the pulling out of WHO, the Paris Agreement, the UN Human Rights Council, and I'm sure I'm missing others.

This is destabilizing the world and making the US an enemy of just about everyone. We're attacking our closest allies and making them almost enemies and making our current enemies bigger enemies.

This is insanity!

Am I overreacting in believing this Gaza drama can lead to WW3? I'm serious.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Am I overreacting in believing this Gaza drama can lead to WW3? I'm serious.

It’s exactly what they want .

 

[efil4]

None of this Gaza stuff he’s bloviating about will ever come to pass.. feel free to quote me for posterity, i always leave open the possibility i may be wrong.. but the Gaza stuff is succeeding (mostly) in distracting attention while Musk and his bodyguards literally force their way into the treasury with a bunch of nerds and hack their way into all of our financial information.. they have sensitive info on all of us now.. if they want to stop payments on whatever, they can do it.. our country’s being hijacked and yes, the Gaza thing needs to be covered, but right now if the USA is a house, then the house is on fire .

while i would tend to agree about the diversion, it could very well be the sum of parts to equal whole. If you are busy wrapped up in domestic affairs, then your eyes arent on Gaza ( and vice versa )

This is a clear Trumpian tactic- he employed in 2016 campaign, his 1st tenure as POTUS ( but it wasnt as broad/blunt as now ) and his 2024 campaign. It was always evident that his main tactic is mass confusion and double-speak to accomplish what he sets out to accomplish. The thought is that he will have enough support from folks who lack critical thinking to pull off what he wants to pull off. ( or just support from genuine admirers of him/his status ) If folks ( opposition ) are too busy looking left, right, up and down, they are missing what is directly in front of them. The supporters? They dont care to look.

His sole goal is to be admired. Thats the driving force - and the ends justify the means by which he gets that admiration.

 

[RobF]

Am I overreacting in believing this Gaza drama can lead to WW3? I'm serious.

Well, it's not great.

But the Guardian has a roundup of international commentary - here - and it's pretty universally 'what, no, are you kidding'. He's unpredictable, but I'm not sure how far Trump will push it. He may just pivot to, "I'm just saying, it would be a great deal for them, if they don't want to take it, that's too bad for them," and not pursue it. For now. Because one of the things he does is drop something insane repeatedly until it becomes somehow relatively normalized and starts being taken seriously.

And if he did try to pursue it now, I'm not sure how successful that'd be. Obviously there'd be lots of internal opposition, and while he's clearly leading a fanatical cult, getting them to support that kind of overseas occupation while simultaneously pushing "America First" would still be a big ask.

So I think/hope this is more a, "The President of the USA is actively calling for ethnic cleansing in Gaza and that's bad," moment, not a, "The USA is actually going to start doing ethnic cleansing in Gaza," moment.

 

[SaintRob]

Am I overreacting in believing this Gaza drama can lead to WW3? I'm serious.

Maybe in the worst case scenario. It's definitely isolationist. We are separating from the rest of the world and that is frightening, especially coupled with what we're doing internally. The Musk/Treasury situation is enough on it's own, but we're likely going to have RFKjr as Health secretary, and all of the other horrendous cabinet members confirmed. The stage is being set internally for some sort of insurrection - maybe not physically violent, but legal fighting and maybe leading to some sort of civil war - again, maybe violent, maybe not. But isolating ourselves from the world and infighting within is not a good set up. I don't think this is hyperbole and I really don't want to think about where this leads.

 

[efil4]

Well, it's not great.

But the Guardian has a roundup of international commentary - here - and it's pretty universally 'what, no, are you kidding'. He's unpredictable, but I'm not sure how far Trump will push it. He may just pivot to, "I'm just saying, it would be a great deal for them, if they don't want to take it, that's too bad for them," and not pursue it. For now. Because one of the things he does is drop something insane repeatedly until it becomes somehow relatively normalized and starts being taken seriously.

And if he did try to pursue it now, I'm not sure how successful that'd be. Obviously there'd be lots of internal opposition, and while he's clearly leading a fanatical cult, getting them to support that kind of overseas occupation while simultaneously pushing "America First" would still be a big ask.

So I think/hope this is more a, "The President of the USA is actively calling for ethnic cleansing in Gaza and that's bad," moment, not a, "The USA is actually going to start doing ethnic cleansing in Gaza," moment.

the "stain" hasnt set just yet, so we still have the opportunity to wash it out.

albeit a very small opportunity.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Well, it's not great.

But the Guardian has a roundup of international commentary - here - and it's pretty universally 'what, no, are you kidding'. He's unpredictable, but I'm not sure how far Trump will push it. He may just pivot to, "I'm just saying, it would be a great deal for them, if they don't want to take it, that's too bad for them," and not pursue it. For now. Because one of the things he does is drop something insane repeatedly until it becomes somehow relatively normalized and starts being taken seriously.

And if he did try to pursue it now, I'm not sure how successful that'd be. Obviously there'd be lots of internal opposition, and while he's clearly leading a fanatical cult, getting them to support that kind of overseas occupation while simultaneously pushing "America First" would still be a big ask.

So I think/hope this is more a, "The President of the USA is actively calling for ethnic cleansing in Gaza and that's bad," moment, not a, "The USA is actually going to start doing ethnic cleansing in Gaza," moment.

We elected a child.. well not ‘we’ since ive never voted for him.. but my country elected a child .


My theory on the whole Maga thing is that most of the Maga crowd (not all, there are always exceptions)- but most of them are stone cold losers in life, miserable m***** f******s.. who are lazy and shiftless.. and, what can we all agree on , no matter who we voted for ? We can all agree that misery loves company.. so all these lazy, loser MAGA types, instead of trying to improve themselves and lift themselves up- no, they would rather ‘blow the whole thing up’ and drag everyone else down to their miserable level … which is how we got here.. i can hear them now: “That’s exactly why Trump won !”.. .. “You sound like an ELITIST”.. no, im not elite at all.. im just capable of recognizing a shyster and snake oil salesman like Trump when i see one .

 

[TampaJoe]

'you think a "peaceful Gaza" is brought about by the US OWNING the land and occupying it?

Land that is considered holy to those inhabitants of the ME. This isnt some tract of wetlands that he wants to occupy and develop....this is land that you cant even begin to understand the historical and religious significance for the people of the ME. Specific to Palestinians.

So you honestly think that having US presence, civilian and military, on this land, 6000+ miles from America, in the ME, promotes peace?

I said I don’t have the answer. And I don’t.

But the “two state solution” hasn’t worked and probably won’t ever work. Plus the fact that the infrastructure of Gaza has been destroyed. So these folks have nowhere to live until Gaza has been cleared and made safe. Finally, I highly doubt Israel will tolerate a hostile government in Gaza.

That’s where we are. So where do we go from here?

 

[efil4]

I said I don’t have the answer. And I don’t.

But the “two state solution” hasn’t worked and probably won’t ever work. Plus the fact that the infrastructure of Gaza has been destroyed. So these folks have nowhere to live until Gaza has been cleared and made safe. Finally, I highly doubt Israel will tolerate a hostile government in Gaza.

That’s where we are. So where do we go from here?

So you think the answer is US occupation? Simple question - yes or no.

 

[TampaJoe]

I would go one step further - it would not surprise me to learn that Bibi and Trump had been coordinating thru back channels for this very outcome. It was planned all along to decimate Gaza in order for the takeover to happen under the guise of " well we have to, they cant return because there is nothing to return to"

I think it goes without saying that the intent was to totally destroy Hamas and their ability to make war out of Gaza. They were prepared to do whatever that took. They still have not totally driven Hamas from Gaza.

 

[TampaJoe]

First of all, this idea that the Palestinians in Gaza wouldn't actually want to go back ignores thousands of years of human history. Much of Gaza was in horrible condition - they don't care. It's their home, and it is so at the core of their religious identity. It's wildly western-ignorant to say that they're just going to give up now that it has been destroyed. Even if, as you say, some would be open to re-settlement on some meaningful plan for them (there is none at the moment - nor any real momentum towards one). What about the rest?

But as to Trump, he unequivocally stated that the US will "own" Gaza. The Palestinians that lived there will "all" have to resettle somewhere else (no plan stated). And the US will then "develop" Gaza. Trump reiterated more than twice that he's talking about permanent US occupation . . . which is the correct term for "owning" Gaza because the US couldn't actually assert title to Gaza under international law. And this idea of "developing" Gaza - as if it were some seaside tract in Jersey - has been floating in the Kushner/Trump orbit for a while now.

But you're saying no, no - this was nothing more than a signal that things can't go back to the way they were. This is just a conversation the world has to have . . . and you're saying this with a straight face? Once again, one of the most fascinating things about Trump support is that people delude themselves to see exactly what they want to see - pretend to hear what they want to hear or believe is appropriate, regardless of what Trump actually does or says.

It would have been far less destructive and destabilizing for him to say "this can't go back to the way it was, and we're going to work with the Israelis and interests in the region" and state some plan - but that's very specifically not what he said. He unequivocally said US ownership. And he's now talking about why this shouldn't bother the Iranians. The Trump sycophants are posting about how this is great for US security because it will give us a base "of our own, right there in the middle east".

There's only so much stretching of reality that we can take here.

I don’t know what Trump’s ultimate objective is here. He says a lot of things and many never come to pass. That is how he operates. He said Mexico would pay for the wall.

That doesn’t change the fact that Gaza is decimated and millions of Palestinians have no where to live nor the resources to rebuild or survive.

So again. Sometime in the not too distant future, decisions will have to be made. It will come down to what the players in the region want and will tolerate. The Palestinians themselves are in the weakest position at the table.

 

[coldseat]

I said I don’t have the answer. And I don’t.

But the “two state solution” hasn’t worked and probably won’t ever work. Plus the fact that the infrastructure of Gaza has been destroyed. So these folks have nowhere to live until Gaza has been cleared and made safe. Finally, I highly doubt Israel will tolerate a hostile government in Gaza.

That’s where we are. So where do we go from here?

The "two state solution" has never been tried because of Israel's right wing obstructing it at every turn.

 

[coldseat]

I think it goes without saying that the intent was to totally destroy Hamas and their ability to make war out of Gaza. They were prepared to do whatever that took. They still have not totally driven Hamas from Gaza.

That was never a plausible outcome and everybody knew it. Just like the US occupying Gaza, resettling Palestinians and developing Gaza is a plausible way forward. The Palestinians are never going away to another land. Hamas will be around as Israel persist in its treatment of Palestinians.

 

[efil4]

That doesn’t change the fact that Gaza is decimated and millions of Palestinians have no where to live nor the resources to rebuild or survive.

Says who?