Trump’s decision on Syria (1 Viewer)

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MT15

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Yes, and the immediate scheduling of a WH visit for Erdogan today just looks bad. The optics are terrible.
 

crosswatt

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Yes, and the immediate scheduling of a WH visit for Erdogan today just looks bad. The optics are terrible.
To who? Until conservative elected officials and voters start to push back on his unacceptable actions, this guy is going to keep acting in his own personal financial interests unencumbered.
 
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Well, I guess it looks bad to all people who aren’t all-in for Trump? It’s getting to be a larger number all the time. 👍🏻
 

Beach Friends

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To who? Until conservative elected officials and voters start to push back on his unacceptable actions, this guy is going to keep acting in his own personal financial interests unencumbered.
Push back? I think his support among his base has never been stronger. - I know a lot of people who are like me, they either didn't support him at all or only reluctantly pulled the lever for him in 2016 but now are definitely in his corner.
 

crosswatt

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Push back? I think his support among his base has never been stronger. - I know a lot of people who are like me, they either didn't support him at all or only reluctantly pulled the lever for him in 2016 but now are definitely in his corner.
So you support his pulling troops out of Syria? You support him doing so seemingly at the behest of Turkey's president, for reasons that certainly appear to be for his own financial gain?
 

DJ1BigTymer

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Push back? I think his support among his base has never been stronger. - I know a lot of people who are like me, they either didn't support him at all or only reluctantly pulled the lever for him in 2016 but now are definitely in his corner.
That was the point watt was making. You couldn't care less about how trump's actions are at best unacceptable or at worse, criminal.
 
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N.O.Bronco

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Some details on Trump's conflict of interest in Turkey. Apparently, Trump already caved once due to financial pressure from Turkey when he was implementing the muslim travel ban and Turkey objected. He is totally compromised.

Without some Simon Biles' level of mental gymnastics, I honestly don't know how anyone can call themselves a constitution rooted patriot, like many in this country like to loudly identify as, and support this president? I really can't.

The same group of founders that sanctioned Ben Franklin for accepting a dang locket from France because they were so petrified of America becoming like England and their rulers becoming corrupted by conflicts of interest like the monarchy. To then vote and endlessly defend a president who is so far beyond that pale compared to any president in history is simply mindboggling when juxtaposing the positions to me. You almost can't step into any of our most contentious or sacred foreign relationships and not find a direct or indirect conflict of interest with our president. A perception that by itself threatens the integrity in our system because it leaves room for justifiable doubt and disillusion. Or at worse, is actively compromising it in that very way.

And even when there isn't a conflict of interest he is simply breaking the soul of the presidency in other ways, like soliciting foreign powers to interfere in our democratic processes on his behalf by leveraging his office.
 

Beach Friends

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So you support his pulling troops out of Syria? You support him doing so seemingly at the behest of Turkey's president, for reasons that certainly appear to be for his own financial gain?
"Certainly appear?" That seems like a jump from the term that was littered throughout that article - ostensibly. I realize that far a left writer came up with a theory, but that doesn't make it so. Kinda numb from all the "if true" reporting we have seen.

I am not immediately appalled by moves to get out our troops out of harm's way, but I am not locked down in support of the move either.
 

crosswatt

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"Certainly appear?" That seems like a jump from the term that was littered throughout that article - ostensibly. I realize that far a left writer came up with a theory, but that doesn't make it so. Kinda numb from all the "if true" reporting we have seen.

I am not immediately appalled by moves to get out our troops out of harm's way, but I am not locked down in support of the move either.
He has with his own words stated that there's a conflict of interest concerning the Istanbul Trump Towers. What has occurred to alleviate that conflict? To my knowledge, nothing.
 

buzd

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(Note: tweet is a twitter thread)

This all seems to be going well.

 

Archies Ghost

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If one takes Trump out of this equation, does it make sense to continue to support the mistakes of the past indefinitely?

The United States does not have the will to engage in the Total War required to completely remake a society.

The rehabilitation of Germany and Japan required horrific wars and authoritarian occupations in order to transform the aggressors into allies that could be trusted.

The US is not going to engage in that in the age of instant information.

So, knowing we will not fling the full power of the United States against a targeted country, we have engaged in endless brush fire wars with absolutely no exit possible.

Kids born after the 9/11 attacks are now serving in the US armed forces in support of these wars we never finish.

It would be my preference that we make no pretense of trying to fix what we break or what has been broken for centuries.
 
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If one takes Trump out of this equation, does it make sense to continue to support the mistakes of the past indefinitely?

The United States does not have the will to engage in the Total War required to completely remake a society.

The rehabilitation of Germany and Japan required horrific wars and authoritarian occupations in order to transform the aggressors into allies that could be trusted.

The US is not going to engage in that in the age of instant information.

So, knowing we will not fling the full power of the United States against a targeted country, we have engaged in endless brush fire wars with absolutely no exit possible.

Kids born after the 9/11 attacks are now serving in the US armed forces in support of these wars we never finish.

It would be my preference that we make no pretense of trying to fix what we break or what has been broken for centuries.
This is fine and I agree with it.

The objections are two fold and aren’t at odds with the overall point of your post.

First, it appears the president came to a pretty momentous decision in a frivolous manner and then announced it late at night by tweet. No discussion took place with allies, our military, or our own State Department. There seems to be confusion about the stated objective of this permission given to Turkey. It should have been a planned withdrawal coordinated with all parties.

Given the above point and Trump’s financial interests in Turkey paired with the subsequent scheduling of a WH visit with Erdogan, it’s fair to ask if the President had the country’s best interests or his own financial interests as the driving force in his decision.

We already see that this President has trouble separating his own interests from official business. He routinely spends time during official events discussing political matters. He has what people in the medical field call “poor impulse control”.
 

Archies Ghost

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This is fine and I agree with it.

The objections are two fold and aren’t at odds with the overall point of your post.

First, it appears the president came to a pretty momentous decision in a frivolous manner and then announced it late at night by tweet. No discussion took place with allies, our military, or our own State Department. There seems to be confusion about the stated objective of this permission given to Turkey. It should have been a planned withdrawal coordinated with all parties.

Given the above point and Trump’s financial interests in Turkey paired with the subsequent scheduling of a WH visit with Erdogan, it’s fair to ask if the President had the country’s best interests or his own financial interests as the driving force in his decision.

We already see that this President has trouble separating his own interests from official business. He routinely spends time during official events discussing political matters. He has what people in the medical field call “poor impulse control”.
If the decision is one you agree with, does it matter what the motivation for taking the decision is?

Our entire Congress enriches themselves by setting up foundations and consultancies that funnel huge amounts of cash to their families in exchange for influence. A lot of that money is coming from foreign governments for policy that is seriously detrimental to this country.

Trump's crime seems to be that he didn't pretend to be pure as the driven snow and divest himself from his legitimate businesses and participate in the DC grift with the rest of them.
 
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What matters in this case is the appearance of impropriety involving the president.

But what really matters is the clear signal to our allies that we cannot be trusted. We will not work with them or even give them a “heads up” when we make a major policy decision. We will announce major decisions by late night tweet and then follow up with some really crazy sounding tweets by the President with grandiose delusions about destroying the economy of Turkey.

It’s utter chaos when we should be the voice of reason and calmness.
 

Dragon

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So Trump ok'ed the attack on US Allies who has been a loyal support for US troops for years.
 

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