This is why I am finding it hard to vote either party (1 Viewer)

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Krodwhodat

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Conversations like this are happening a lot more often on social media and this is the mindset of the progressive left. I’m thinking I need to reevaluate my voting this election.

 

Ayo

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A couple of odd things I am trying to reconcile in/about this thread.

First the title says “either party” when you talk about finding it difficult to vote but the OP only talks about the progressive left. So it seems that it’s more about how you can’t bring yourself to vote for the left.

fair enough but it’s like half of what I expected when I clicked the thread

secondly, you say the dilemma is voting for policies you don’t agree with vs a person you don’t like. Does that mean you like trumps policies? Maybe developing some detail around that would help people understand better the nature of your personal conflict?
 

efil4

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Hi guys...long time lurker, 2nd time poster (apparently 9th). I don't usually speak on politics because I'm not all that versed in all of the nuances of policy and so on, but Krod, if that one little twitter exchange has you questioning whether "libs" are extreme, then I invite you to venture on over to the political board on Tiger----- to get an idea of what the "other" side looks like. Read some of the stuff over there and really, really think about if you have more in common w/ them or...the seemingly normal people over here.
Its pretty bad on TD. I havent been back in 4 years.
 

efil4

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A couple of odd things I am trying to reconcile in/about this thread.

First the title says “either party” when you talk about finding it difficult to vote but the OP only talks about the progressive left. So it seems that it’s more about how you can’t bring yourself to vote for the left.

fair enough but it’s like half of what I expected when I clicked the thread

secondly, you say the dilemma is voting for policies you don’t agree with vs a person you don’t like. Does that mean you like trumps policies? Maybe developing some detail around that would help people understand better the nature of your personal conflict?

Im still waiting for "american dream " and "family values" to be defined.

Its hard to figure out where some come from with only half info.
 

Ayo

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Its pretty bad on TD. I havent been back in 4 years.
i got banned for making a joke about QAnon in their thread of thousands of pages. I said something about it being a place to post our “fan fiction”

been a member there for like a decade and that’s what got me banned lol

it’s a racist cesspool
 

BayouSAINTJoe

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Its pretty bad on TD. I havent been back in 4 years.
i got banned for making a joke about QAnon in their thread of thousands of pages. I said something about it being a place to post our “fan fiction”

been a member there for like a decade and that’s what got me banned lol

it’s a racist cesspool
I go over every once in a while to get my anti GOP booster shot...that place smacks me in the face w/ the reality that there isn't a place for me anywhere in the political party that gives safe harbor to the mindset that runs rampant over there.
 

efil4

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i got banned for making a joke about QAnon in their thread of thousands of pages. I said something about it being a place to post our “fan fiction”

been a member there for like a decade and that’s what got me banned lol

it’s a racist cesspool

I was there a month. couldnt take it. I think some just go there to spew what they cannot ( in public ) and it quickly developed "herd mentality".
 

MT15

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Thanks for calling us “seemingly normal”. I sincerely got a chuckle out of that.
 

BayouSAINTJoe

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Thanks for calling us “seemingly normal”. I sincerely got a chuckle out of that.
You're welcome...I used "seemingly normal" because of the level headed nature of most of the discussion here sans a few outliers...or outliars :) . but then again, frothing from the mouth extremism is more normal than anything in 2020...so I take that back, you guys are hella abnormal.
 

V Chip

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So let me ask you guys, do you vote based on whether you like a candidates personality or based on where they stand on political issues that mean the most to you?
Political issues mostly. I mean, if someone stands the same as me on political issues but also espouses a whole lot of things I cannot in good conscience support as well I’m not going to vote for that person. If Elizabeth Warren was actively trying to disenfranchise Republican voters and calling them terrorists or traitors just for trying to vote or assemble, or saying she sexually harasses people and brags about that then I couldn’t in good conscience vote for her no matter how much she aligns with me on the political issues.
 

zztop

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Hi guys...long time lurker, 2nd time poster (apparently 9th). I don't usually speak on politics because I'm not all that versed in all of the nuances of policy and so on, but Krod, if that one little twitter exchange has you questioning whether "libs" are extreme, then I invite you to venture on over to the political board on Tiger----- to get an idea of what the "other" side looks like. Read some of the stuff over there and really, really think about if you have more in common w/ them or...the seemingly normal people over here.
You should venture here more often, we could use some different voices/thoughts around here. Also, cool avatar :cool:
 

zztop

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I disagree with this, I think extremist are the loudest in each party but not the majority. I think that there are things the dems support that I just can get behind. I think that to come here and give bible quotes and discuss Christian beliefs and then turn around and vote for a party that believe in killing babies would fall right under the hypocrisy you speaking about correct?
I see your "killing babies" and raise you:

"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is."
 

SaulGoodmanEsq

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I’m not nor have ever been ashamed to vote for someone or to explain why I have. No American should be or feel like they should be. I’m not a Trump supporter and I have been honest about how I felt about him on here and in my personal life. The more I read about Biden and Harris the less I believe in what direction they want to take the country. So now I am caught in a dilemma, do I vote for policies I don’t believe in, do I vote for a person I don’t like, do I vote third party or do I not vote. I live in CT now so at this point it’s a given Biden is winning by more than 70% here.
That's a question only you could answer. It's easy for me because Biden's policies more closely align with mine than Trump's policies (or lack thereof). That Trump has actively been sabotaging institutional norms and lowering the political discourse dovetails nicely with my policy reasoning.

If the situations were reversed and Hillary was in office sabotaging the same institutional norms that Trump is currently doing, then I would probably vote for a third-party candidate unless the GOP nominated a fairly moderate person like John Kasich or even Mitt Romney.

Keep in mind that everything Trump and the GOP has been doing over the last couple of years simply lays the groundwork for the Democrats to do the exact same thing, i.e., power does what it wants, thus regardless of your policy views, there is still an argument to be made that protection of the system should be given consideration.

In sum: If you don't think Trump has been sabotaging institutional norms and like his policy positions, then you should vote for Trump. If you do think he's been sabotaging institutional norms and that it lays a dangerous precedent for future administrations to do the same, then consider voting third-party.

I think that to come here and give bible quotes and discuss Christian beliefs and then turn around and vote for a party that believe in killing babies would fall right under the hypocrisy you speaking about correct?
Only if you think there is one interpretation of religion (never mind the countless other religions on this planet) and that life begins at conception. Given the vast number of religions and multiple interpretations thereof -- I choose not to give religion any sway in making policy decisions. One person's belief in Jesus or the Buddha is no more or less objectively provable than a belief in Rusty the Talking Wonder Llama.
 
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The moose

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That's a question only you could answer. It's easy for me because Biden's policies more closely align with mine than Trump's policies (or lack thereof). That Trump has actively been sabotaging institutional norms and lowering the political discourse dovetails nicely with my policy reasoning.

If the situations were reversed and Hillary was in office sabotaging the same institutional norms that Trump is currently doing, then I would probably vote for a third-party candidate unless the GOP nominated a fairly moderate person like John Kasich or even Mitt Romney.

Keep in mind that everything Trump and the GOP has been doing over the last couple of years simply lays the groundwork for the Democrats to do the exact same thing, i.e., power does what it wants, thus regardless of your policy views, there is still an argument to be made that protection of the system should be given consideration.

In sum: If you don't think Trump has been sabotaging institutional norms and like his policy positions, then you should vote for Trump. If you do think he's been sabotaging institutional norms and that it lays a dangerous precedent for future administrations to do the same, then consider voting third-party.



Only if you think there is one interpretation of religion (never mind the countless other religions on this planet) and that life begins at conception. Given the vast number of religions and multiple interpretations thereof -- I choose not to give religion any sway in making policy decisions. One person's belief in Jesus or the Buddha is no more or less objectively provable than a belief in Rusty the Talking Wonder Llama.

Rusty the Talking Wonder Llama.

You got my attention now. Been searching my whole life just maybe Rusty is who I am looking for.

I take it when Rusty spits on you it is a good thing!
 

SystemShock

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I’m not nor have ever been ashamed to vote for someone or to explain why I have. No American should be or feel like they should be. I’m not a Trump supporter and I have been honest about how I felt about him on here and in my personal life. The more I read about Biden and Harris the less I believe in what direction they want to take the country. So now I am caught in a dilemma, do I vote for policies I don’t believe in, do I vote for a person I don’t like, do I vote third party or do I not vote. I live in CT now so at this point it’s a given Biden is winning by more than 70% here.

on a side noteit’s ashame that we as Americans are so ugly to one another that we are name calling people who don’t vote the way we do should be a serious wake up call.
Who you vote for, it is your business. But given what you have posted on this thread, it is obvious to me you are looking for validation to vote for the GOP's candidate. Otherwise, why even post some random tweet that probably was shared with you from an echo chamber? And really, have you not read anything from QAnon, or what's posted on Tiger Droppings?

I was going to reply to other posts you made about "family values" and "the party who wants to kill babies", but frankly, just reading those comments you made, there really is no use.

So just go ahead and vote for Trump, and be part of the attempt at normalizing the GOP's behavior the last 4 years.
 

Yggdrasill

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I’m not nor have ever been ashamed to vote for someone or to explain why I have. No American should be or feel like they should be. I’m not a Trump supporter and I have been honest about how I felt about him on here and in my personal life. The more I read about Biden and Harris the less I believe in what direction they want to take the country. So now I am caught in a dilemma, do I vote for policies I don’t believe in, do I vote for a person I don’t like, do I vote third party or do I not vote. I live in CT now so at this point it’s a given Biden is winning by more than 70% here.

on a side noteit’s ashame that we as Americans are so ugly to one another that we are name calling people who don’t vote the way we do should be a serious wake up call.
Thanks for saying this. I agree with your thoughts about voting, respect and civility, though I viscerally oppose Trump. I have never been ashamed to vote for someone in the moment but have felt retrospective shame. For me it was Clinton, who was far more corrupt and plutocratic than I understood at the time. But I was younger and naive.

The invective in the tweets you posted can be seen from the other side if you go to conservativepoliticalforum.com. There, Democrats are referred to as Dims and Marxist Liberals, and I read a number of posts by people advocating (literally) purges of political opponents. It was horrifying, anti-democratic anti-American vitriol, and I know it is just a fringe group spouting off. But is scary because so it feels like a lot of people in this country feel that this election is too important to lose.

I would call myself a progressive and I have never heard anyone in politics in this country, Democrat or otherwise, advocate infanticide. One of the fastest ways to slow one's heartbeat and lower the blood pressure is to avoid easy slogans like "baby killers" that demonize others and eviscerate meaningful conversation. Issues are complex and nuanced, and over-simplification leads to misunderstanding.

I'd be curious to know what direction you're concerned that Biden would take the country. For my part, I am afraid that Biden will return us to corporatist, status-quo middle of the road Democratic politics which, though preferable to what we have today is in part to blame for so many people feeling alienated from politics.
 

Foreign National

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Conversations like this are happening a lot more often on social media and this is the mindset of the progressive left. I’m thinking I need to reevaluate my voting this election.

Does this mean you were planning to vote for Mr Biden before you came across this tweet? Others have addressed why this tweet should not be changing anyone’s mind. Even if two real life people sat down in front of you to have the same conversation I don’t see how that could be enough to change your mind.

You are free to change your mind about who you vote for but please don’t change it over this.
 

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