The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (5 Viewers)

[Lapaz]

There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.

Stanford study: Mail voting doesn't benefit one party over another

Coronavirus-spurred limits have intensified a push to allow more mail balloting in November.

www.politico.com

Voting Outside the Polling Place: Absentee, All-Mail and other Voting at Home Options

Most states offer at least one method for any eligible voter to cast a ballot before Election Day. While some states provide early in-person voting, this webpage addresses absentee voting and all-mail voting.

www.ncsl.org

Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.

 

[Nebaghead]

Anyone that wants to vote can still vote. Just like last the last election and the primaries and your trips to the store.

No not like last election. I voted by mail because I don’t have 2 hours to wait in line to vote, much less in a pandemic. Your lack of concern is pitiful.

 

[nolaspe]

Save The Post Office | American Postal Workers Union

www.apwu.org

 

[efil4]

Anyone that wants to vote can still vote. Just like last the last election and the primaries and your trips to the store.

Here comes the Russi....err Republican talking points.

The pattern you guys follow is to the tee. Dont engage immediately - give it a day or so. Wait for the argument to morph and then enter the conversation with platitudes that deflect from the actual issue.

Every. single.time.

 

[Dragon]

Anyone that wants to vote can still vote. Just like last the last election and the primaries and your trips to the store.

No apparently they can only vote by mail if they are republican. How can you even justify something like this ?

The Trump campaign, the RNC, and other GOP groups have also sued “two Democratic-leaning Iowa counties that are making it easy to vote by mail during the coronavirus pandemic, seeking to invalidate tens of thousands of voters' absentee ballot applications,” Foley reported yesterday.

• “At issue are absentee ballot request forms that the counties are sending to registered voters with personal information already filled in, including their names, dates of birth and voting pin numbers. Voters just have to review, sign and return the forms to get ballots in October that they can mail back or drop off, avoiding crowded polling places.”
• “The Trump campaign and GOP groups did not sue Republican-leaning Woodbury County, where the auditor sent prepopulated forms to 57,000 registered voters this month. Trump carried that county by 8,500 votes in 2016.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...litics1-8-12_powerup-915am:homepage/story-ans

 

[insidejob]

How can you even justify something like this ?

By being excited to be a part of a fascist movement in this country to set it back to pre-1960's America?

 

[zztop]

What the heck is happening with the Postal Service?

As November nears, the Postal Service is facing a crisis that could interfere with the election.

www.vox.com

pretty good (but long) summary, and also answers my question.
" Postmaster General DeJoy took office in mid-June. It’s worth pointing out that DeJoy was not appointed by President Trump. He was appointed by the six members of the Postal Service Board of Governors, all of whom were appointed by Trump. "

 

[bdb13]

And this is exactly why this is occurring:

Among Trump supporters, 80 percent said that they prefer to vote in-person. By contrast, 58 percent of Biden supporters said they prefer to vote by mail.

Pew poll finds Biden with 8-point lead on Trump

Former Vice President Joe Biden holds an 8-point lead over President Trump in a new national survey from the Pew Research Center.The poll, released Thursday, shows Biden leading…

thehill.com

 

[insidejob]

And this is exactly why this is occurring:

Pew poll finds Biden with 8-point lead on Trump

Former Vice President Joe Biden holds an 8-point lead over President Trump in a new national survey from the Pew Research Center.The poll, released Thursday, shows Biden leading…

thehill.com

Among Trump supporters, 80 percent said that they prefer to vote in-person. By contrast, 58 percent of Biden supporters said they prefer to vote by mail.

I actually saw a poll the other day that said completely the opposite and I found it strange because, typically, don't more republicans vote by mail than democrats? That's what I've always been told.

Pretty nice coincidence too that sorting machines were removed in 12 counties that lean heavily democrat. (Just heard that on a news report talking about the Postmaster's/Trump's dismantling of the USPS on NPR.)

 

[insidejob]

" Postmaster General DeJoy took office in mid-June. It’s worth pointing out that DeJoy was not appointed by President Trump. He was appointed by the six members of the Postal Service Board of Governors, all of whom were appointed by Trump. "

This is so ridiculous you just have to laugh. No, it wasn't Trump who installed this dude after donating a ton to Trump and the RNC, it was just six hand picked members who'd not have the position if it weren't for Trump. I'm sure they'd push back on whoever Trump wanted to put in that spot.

 

[bdb13]

I actually saw a poll the other day that said completely the opposite and I found it strange because, typically, don't more republicans vote by mail than democrats? That's what I've always been told.

Pretty nice coincidence too that sorting machines were removed in 12 counties that lean heavily democrat. (Just heard that on a news report talking about the Postmaster's/Trump's dismantling of the USPS on NPR.)

Yeah, hadn't heard that but don't doubt it, I knew they were going to be targeting Democratic areas... that was just obvious.

This simply wouldn't be occurring if the Trump administration believed Trump had the advantage with mail-in-voting in battleground states.

 

[JRad]

Anyone that wants to vote can still vote. Just like last the last election and the primaries and your trips to the store.

It is absolutely not like the last election. In the last election, the USPS was able to carry out their task of delivering absentee ballots on time. In the last election, the USPS wasn't so stripped down and overburdened they could confidently deliver the ballots of deployed military on time. In the last election, the USPS wasn't telling us they may not be able to deliver the ballots of the hospital bound on time.

I'm not one to go with the alarmist response, but this whole situation is messed up (and that word is still underselling). I know you don't want universal mail-in, but that's not what this is about. You're acting like nothing changes, but you're totally crapping on the voting rights of every American citizen who literally cannot go to a voting booth. Those American citizens are having their voting rights taken from them, but you're going to sit here and tell us the voting access is the same as 2016?

 

[Lapaz]

I was a big proponent of mail-in voting due to the risk of Covid, but since Trump and his minions will and are doing everything in their power to undermine mail-in ballots, I hope the vast majority of non-Trump voters are willing to risk their health to vote him out in person. This will be like doing your patriotic duty to risk your life to save the country. I'm definitely going to vote in person, despite having some pre-existing conditions. I'll keep my distance, wear my mask, and then disinfect afterwards, but my vote will count. It won't change anything, since I live in deep red Alabama, but I'm not going to ask anyone to take any risk that I'm not willing to do. I hope that message gets out for those that haven't already mailed in their ballots, and aren't at high risk, that we have to vote in person to assure our votes get counted.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

So the current IG was appointed prior to DeJoy's appointment (and house-clearing) and has been in the office since 2011. How long before Trump gets at her and has her kicked to the curb?

Exclusive: Postal service inspector general reviewing DeJoy’s policy changes and potential ethics conflicts | CNN Politics

The internal watchdog at the United States Postal Service is reviewing controversial policy changes recently imposed under Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, and is also examining DeJoy’s compliance with federal ethics rules, according to a spokeswoman for the USPS inspector general and an aide to...

www.cnn.com

 

[stevo3]

It is absolutely not like the last election. In the last election, the USPS was able to carry out their task of delivering absentee ballots on time. In the last election, the USPS wasn't so stripped down and overburdened they could confidently deliver the ballots of deployed military on time. In the last election, the USPS wasn't telling us they may not be able to deliver the ballots of the hospital bound on time.

I'm not one to go with the alarmist response, but this whole situation is messed up (and that word is still underselling). I know you don't want universal mail-in, but that's not what this is about. You're acting like nothing changes, but you're totally crapping on the voting rights of every American citizen who literally cannot go to a voting booth. Those American citizens are having their voting rights taken from them, but you're going to sit here and tell us the voting access is the same as 2016?

This is just false and exactly the kind of hyperbole that takes these kinds of discussions into a place where rational conversation can be had.

American citizens who cannot go to a voting booth can request an absentee ballot just as they always have. Nobody is trying to end the absentee ballot program. Nobody's right to vote is being taken away. The problem is the blanket mail in policy that those on the left are calling for.

It's undeniable fact that there are only a few states equipped and prepared for total mail-in ballot elections because they have put the quality systems in place, over years and worked out the kinks, to ensure there are minimal hiccups.

If all states attempt to do this in just the 3 months before the election, the result would be disastrous. Just look at Virginia and its attempt for the primaries.

 

[JRad]

This is just false and exactly the kind of hyperbole that takes these kinds of discussions into a place where rational conversation can be had.

American citizens who cannot go to a voting booth can request an absentee ballot just as they always have. Nobody is trying to end the absentee ballot program.

Who handles the absentee ballots? How are they delivered? What’s currently happening to that organization? I’m not being hyperbolic, you’re being obtuse.

 

[MT15]

This is just false and exactly the kind of hyperbole that takes these kinds of discussions into a place where rational conversation can be had.

American citizens who cannot go to a voting booth can request an absentee ballot just as they always have. Nobody is trying to end the absentee ballot program. Nobody's right to vote is being taken away. The problem is the blanket mail in policy that those on the left are calling for.

It's undeniable fact that there are only a few states equipped and prepared for total mail-in ballot elections because they have put the quality systems in place, over years and worked out the kinks, to ensure there are minimal hiccups.

If all states attempt to do this in just the 3 months before the election, the result would be disastrous. Just look at Virginia and its attempt for the primaries.

I think there is only one state attempting to do the entire election by mail for the first time, I think it’s Nevada. The other states are just experiencing a huge increase in requests for mail in ballots because A. There is a deadly pandemic that hasn’t been controlled and B. due to said uncontrolled pandemic, polling places have been cut down to next to nothing, leading to obscenely long lines in a lot of places during the primaries. Everyone saw those people standing in line for 4 hours or more to vote. It was terrible.

So the USPS is now suddenly undergoing vast changes, eliminating overtime, allowing mail to sit for days, taking away sorting machines, and they were removing mail drop boxes before everyone raised a big stink about it. This is leading the USPS to warn 46 states that they may not be able to deliver the absentee ballots in time for the election. I suppose you could say these changes are all unrelated to the election, except for the fact that Trump just called in to Fox and said he was going to withhold any money from the Post Office in order to affect the election.

Makes it kinda hard to give him the benefit of the doubt, don’t you think?

Its not like we didn’t know that there would be a huge increase in requests for mail in ballots, during a deadly pandemic. Any public servant worth spit would have been giving the post office what it needs in order to handle this entirely expected increase. But all Trump does is lie about widespread voter fraud by mail, which isn’t a thing. It’s pretty easy to believe that he would like to suppress the votes of as many democrats as he can get away with. It’s not like he hasn’t proven to be a liar and a cheat his whole freaking life or anything, right?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Its not like we didn’t know that there would be a huge increase in requests for mail in ballots, during a deadly pandemic. Any public servant worth spit would have been giving the post office what it needs in order to handle this entirely expected increase. But all Trump does is lie about widespread voter fraud by mail, which isn’t a thing. It’s pretty easy to believe that he would like to suppress the votes of as many democrats as he can get away with. It’s not like he hasn’t proven to be a liar and a cheat his whole freaking life or anything, right?

Especially with WH economic advisor Larry Kudlow's recent comments on CNBC that I am re-posting for the benefit of @stevo3

"They are asking too much money, $3.5 trillion, we have already spent over $3 trillion,” Kudlow said. “So much of the Democratic asks are really liberal left wish lists — voting rights and aid to aliens and so forth.”

And Trump himself on Fox News said this:

"They want $25 billion — billion — for the post office. Now they need that money in order to have the post office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots," Trump said. "Now, in the meantime, they aren't getting there. By the way, those are just two items. But if they don't get those two items, that means you can't have universal mail-in voting ... because they're not equipped."

Given everything that is happening in regards to the post office and the quotes above from President Trump and Larry Kudlow, do you believe that this is an effort to suppress votes?

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]