The Impeachment Process Has Officially Begun (1 Viewer)

[Andrus]

By Laura Bassett

After months of internal arguing among Democrats over whether to impeach President Donald Trump, the dam is finally breaking in favor of trying to remove him from office. The Washington Post reported that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would announce a formal impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, following a bombshell report that Trump illegally asked Ukraine’s government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, one of his political opponents. (He essentially admitted to having done so over the weekend.)

“Now that we have the facts, we’re ready,” Pelosi said Tuesday morning at a forum hosted by The Atlantic. At 5 p.m. the same day, she was back with more. "The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the constitution, especially when the president says Article Two says I can do whatever I want," referring to the segment of the Constitution that defines the power of the executive branch of the government. Pelosi's message was that checks and balances of those branches are just as central to the Constitution. And one more thing: "Today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry," she said at a conference broadcast on Twitter by the Huffington Post. ...

Read the Full Story - InStyle

 

[cuddlemonkey]

That's a very complete timeline, but it misses two very important (in my opinion) events.

Sometime in May DOD completes an investigation and certifies that Ukraine has taken the required steps to address corruption in their country.
May-July On at least 50 different occasions, the White House signed off on releasing the aid to Ukraine

I think those two events are critical, because they show that the White House (if they bothered to read the reports) was aware that Ukraine had taken the required steps to address corruption, and that the White House (from May - July) was willing to release the aid. The idea that the White House was only concerned with corruption in Ukraine falls apart with these two events included.

Might also be worth it to add this from July 2018, when the U.S. sent $200 million in aid to Ukraine.

US releases $200 million in defensive aid to Ukraine as Moscow seeks better ties | CNN Politics

In a move likely to irk Moscow, the Pentagon has released $200 million in security assistance to Ukraine just days after the Russian Ministry of Defense said it was ready to work with the US Department of Defense on a range of security issues following a meeting between President Donald Trump...

www.cnn.com

 

[Intensesaint]

The threshold for you labeling someone a racist needs to be raised significantly.

The significance of the video of Rashida Tlaib gleefully going to vote on impeachment is that it highlights the hypocrisy of the Democratic leadership, who have repeatedly claimed that this is a "somber" occasion.

BTW, at the same time I posted the Tlaib video I posted in the media literacy thread a picture of a group of white journalists from the WaPo celebrating impeachment. I will post it here for easy reference.

It's the new theme of the day, if you don't support impeachment you are racist.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

It's the new theme of the day, if you don't support impeachment you are racist.

It's about as valid as saying that the entire point of impeachment is to overturn the results of the 2016 election and/or the will of the people.

 

[JimEverett]

It's about as valid as saying that the entire point of impeachment is to overturn the results of the 2016 election and/or the will of the people.

Except no one has made that point.

 

[Beach Friends]

I see they deleted the tweet. I guess someone realized that they don't need to advertise who they actually are.

 

[JimEverett]

I've never understood how we decide which party to blame for a lack of bipartisanship.

The Republicans were the only party yesterday to vote completely down party lines.

Does a couple of democrats voting the other way mean that the democrats were the ones toeing the party line?

But the Republicans who voted 100% the same way are somehow not toeing the party line?

The burden should fall on the ones bringing the charges. Its an impeachment after all, hence the importance of making Democrats look like they are taking it seriously. But the facts show it is mostly just political theater.

 

[Intensesaint]

I see they deleted the tweet. I guess someone realized that they don't need to advertise who they actually are.

 

[samiam5211]

The burden should fall on the ones bringing the charges. Its an impeachment after all, hence the importance of making Democrats look like they are taking it seriously. But the facts show it is mostly just political theater.

What burden? The burden of proof? I agree. The fact that no Republicans voted for it could just as likely be evidence of Republicans toeing the party line as the democrats not making a sufficient case.

Which facts show that it is mostly political theater?

Do you believe that Trump withheld aid from Ukraine because he wanted an announcement of an investigation into the Bidens?

 

[Nebaghead]

The delay of the articles is a bargaining ploy to have more input into the Impeachment Trial in the Senate. They are saying it will most likely be delayed a couple weeks into January. As mentioned earlier, they could wait till the subpoenas go through the court system and decision is made.

 

[JimEverett]

What burden? The burden of proof? I agree. The fact that no Republicans voted for it could just as likely be evidence of Republicans toeing the party line as the democrats not making a sufficient case.

It is more than just the legal threshold of a burden of proof. Impeachment is a political mechanism as much, if not more so, than a legal one. Whether you are wanting to call it "overturning the results of the last lection," "removing a duly a elected President," whatever - it is a very serious matter and the ones bringing the charges have many burdens - one being that the actions they are alleging rise to the serious nature impeachment calls for, another being that they are not just playing politics. You do this by garnering substantial public support and/or inter-party support. The Democrats are treating this less serious than they do a budget resolution.

 

[samiam5211]

It is more than just the legal threshold of a burden of proof. Impeachment is a political mechanism as much, if not more so, than a legal one. Whether you are wanting to call it "overturning the results of the last lection," "removing a duly a elected President," whatever - it is a very serious matter and the ones bringing the charges have many burdens - one being that the actions they are alleging rise to the serious nature impeachment calls for, another being that they are not just playing politics. You do this by garnering substantial public support and/or inter-party support. The Democrats are treating this less serious than they do a budget resolution.

You aren't really answering my question about how do you determine that the Democrats are responsible for the lack of bipartisanship. Of the two political parties, the democrats are the only one that had members vote against their party.

The Democratic vote was bipartisan. The Republican vote was not.

You can say the Democrats moved forward without seeking bipartisan support, or you could say that the Republicans refused to be honest brokers and were never going to vote yes.

I don't see how you can give one theory more weight than the other.


Also: Do you believe that Trump withheld aid from Ukraine because he wanted them to announce an investigation into the Bidens?

 

[JimEverett]

The delay of the articles is a bargaining ploy to have more input into the Impeachment Trial in the Senate. They are saying it will most likely be delayed a couple weeks into January. As mentioned earlier, they could wait till the subpoenas go through the court system and decision is made.

What subpoenas are working their way through the courts? Is it just the subpoena for McGahn to testify or are there more?

 

[samiam5211]

The delay of the articles is a bargaining ploy to have more input into the Impeachment Trial in the Senate. They are saying it will most likely be delayed a couple weeks into January. As mentioned earlier, they could wait till the subpoenas go through the court system and decision is made.

I hope they hold them until we get at least Bolton to testify.

I suppose it's not out of the question that they hold them for months and even add a couple of new articles of impeachment if Trump continues his path of corruption. I doubt they would add new articles, but i don't think it's impossible.

 

[JimEverett]

You aren't really answering my question about how do you determine that the Democrats are responsible for the lack of bipartisanship. Of the two political parties, the democrats are the only one that had members vote against their party.

The Democratic vote was bipartisan. The Republican vote was not.

You can say the Democrats moved forward without seeking bipartisan support, or you could say that the Republicans refused to be honest brokers and were never going to vote yes.

I don't see how you can give one theory more weight than the other.

I said why - the Democrats are the ones impeaching a President of an opposition party.

Also: Do you believe that Trump withheld aid from Ukraine because he wanted them to announce an investigation into the Bidens?

I have answered and discussed this question multiple, multiple times. In fact, have discussed it with you.

 

[Joe Okc]

Really why?

They don't like happy women?

Or is it they don't like women of color?

Come on try just a bit to not look so racist.

Ahhh. The old "your a racist" game... How original...

That's pretty sorry.. Before I report this post... I have to say... If this is your argument.. Your not even worth debating with... Typical Leftist bullshirt... I argued with women that have a better game than this. And they say: "Nothing, I'm fine."

 

[Nebaghead]

What subpoenas are working their way through the courts? Is it just the subpoena for McGahn to testify or are there more?

Mulvaney, Bolton and Kupperman plus the documents that were requested.

 

[JimEverett]

Mulvaney, Bolton and Kupperman plus the documents that were requested.

I am not asking this to be snarky - all I can find is that the McGahn subpoena is working its way through the courts. Do you have links to reporting on those cases? For example - I know Mulvaney had filed something in Court asking to get out from the subpoena, but then dropped that case and can find nothing else - no move filed by Congress to compel or something like that.

 

[reubenray]

Isn't this all a waste of time when the Senate finds Trump not guilty?