The Impeachment Process Has Officially Begun (1 Viewer)

[Andrus]

By Laura Bassett

After months of internal arguing among Democrats over whether to impeach President Donald Trump, the dam is finally breaking in favor of trying to remove him from office. The Washington Post reported that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would announce a formal impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, following a bombshell report that Trump illegally asked Ukraine’s government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, one of his political opponents. (He essentially admitted to having done so over the weekend.)

“Now that we have the facts, we’re ready,” Pelosi said Tuesday morning at a forum hosted by The Atlantic. At 5 p.m. the same day, she was back with more. "The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the constitution, especially when the president says Article Two says I can do whatever I want," referring to the segment of the Constitution that defines the power of the executive branch of the government. Pelosi's message was that checks and balances of those branches are just as central to the Constitution. And one more thing: "Today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry," she said at a conference broadcast on Twitter by the Huffington Post. ...

Read the Full Story - InStyle

 

[MT15]

By contrast, as a member of the Senate, Mitch McConnell was worth $3 million before he married Elaine Chao. They are now worth over $30 million.

 

[Beach Friends]

By contrast, as a member of the Senate, Mitch McConnell was worth $3 million before he married Elaine Chao. They are now worth over $30 million.

I don't mean any disrespect, but it seems to me that you are so wrapped up in whose team looks worse, that you don't see that it doesn't really matter. The fact is Trump has made it very clear that he wants to make influence peddling an issue in this trial.

You suggest that Biden is not guilty, but perhaps McConnel is. Great, let's go with that. From McConnell's perspective, it's doesn't help him one bit if Biden is innocent but he (McConnell) is guilty. In fact, if McConnell accuses Biden under those circumstances then McConnell looks even worse.

If what you say is true, then it stands to reason that McConnell would want to avoid opening that can of worms.

I just don't know how you can simultaneously say that you believe that influence peddling/ money laundering schemes are widespread and that senators are indifferent to having that issue presented on the biggest of all stages.

 

[Saintamaniac]

The fact that Joe Biden and his son have been talked about over these last two pages tells me that Trump and republicans have been successful in their talking points and getting people to make some kind of equivalency between Biden and Trump. If you are talking about Biden, either you have fallen for the trap or you are part of the trap to get people talking about Biden. To hell with Biden.

Trump strong-armed an ally using federal money to do it. Trump had his associates and Guiliani make it known to our ally that the only way they would get the money that had been approved was to publicly state that a phony investigation was being opened on Biden. I don't give a damn if Biden got his whole damn family positions in the Ukranian government. Biden isn't the president and Biden didn't strong arm an ally to get dirt on his political rival. If Biden and his did anything wrong, republicans would have found it a long time ago.

Trump is the guilty one here. Not Biden. Any further discussion of Biden is doing nothing but playing along with the lies and obfuscation coming from republicans and conservatives.

 

[MT15]

I don't mean any disrespect, but it seems to me that you are so wrapped up in whose team looks worse, that you don't see that it doesn't really matter. The fact is Trump has made it very clear that he wants to make influence peddling an issue in this trial.

You suggest that Biden is not guilty, but perhaps McConnel is. Great, let's go with that. From McConnell's perspective, it's doesn't help him one bit if Biden is innocent but he (McConnell) is guilty. In fact, if McConnell accuses Biden under those circumstances then McConnell looks even worse.

If what you say is true, then it stands to reason that McConnell would want to avoid opening that can of worms.

I just don't know how you can simultaneously say that you believe that influence peddling/ money laundering schemes are widespread and that senators are indifferent to having that issue presented on the biggest of all stages.

That money laundering is widespread in the Senate is your contention, not mine. I was going along with your scenario.

Just know that Joe Biden is being viciously smeared by an unscrupulous group of people, including Rudy, some folks who carry a grudge against him in Ukraine for his earlier anti-corruption efforts, and Trump.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

I don't mean any disrespect, but it seems to me that you are so wrapped up in whose team looks worse, that you don't see that it doesn't really matter. The fact is Trump has made it very clear that he wants to make influence peddling an issue in this trial.

Can you just for once stop wrapping your Freudian projections about others into propaganda about the president’s obstructive behavior and his party’s complicity? This gaslighting is getting really old.

Opinion | Elaine Chao, Mitch McConnell and Questions of Conflict (Published 2019)

Congress wants answers from the transportation secretary, wife of the Senate majority leader, about the apparent mixing of public and family business.

www.nytimes.com

The President Just Admitted in Court He Ran a Crooked Charity and We're All Just Gonna Shrug It Off?

Who among us has not spent $20,000 in other people's charity money on a six-foot portrait of ourselves?

www.esquire.com

Also in 2010, the Department of Justice established an innovative kleptocracy asset recovery initiative, dedicated to seizing illicit funds laundered in the United States and returning them for the benefit of the public from whom they were stolen.


The United States, however, has retreated from this role under Trump, who once disparaged the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act as “ridiculous” and a “terrible law.” The Dodd-Frank transparency provision hasn’t yet gone into effect because Congress, with Trump’s support, repealed the federal rule creating the disclosure requirement and has yet to propose a replacement.

The Trump administration also withdrew the United States from the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative, a global standard for transparency around natural resources

America once led anti-corruption fight. Now self-dealing Trump is kleptocrats' role model.

Before Trump, America pioneered laws and diplomacy to curb corruption, and other countries followed our lead. Now we're a global model for kleptocrats.

www.usatoday.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/10/23/trump-administration-sought-billions-dollars-cuts-programs-aimed-fighting-corruption-ukraine-abroad/

The Many Red Flags of Trump’s Partners in India — ‘Trump, Inc.’ Podcast

The Trump Organization has five active projects in India, a country where corruption is common in the real estate industry.

www.propublica.org

Trump has never shown any concern for addressing political corruption, ever. He has proposed no laws to reform the system, he has put zero personal emphasis on strengthening its enforcement, he has even undermined it and shown disdain publicly and privately for it. So can we stop spewing the [mod edit - profanity] propaganda please?

 

[Beach Friends]

That money laundering is widespread in the Senate is your contention, not mine. I was going along with your scenario.

I am not sure what point you were making when you said:

I have heard former senators say there are a handful of senators from both parties who haven’t really done the sort of stuff that makes someone rich simply by being in the Senate. (Stuff that McConnell has probably done, IMO.) And Joe Biden is one of those people.

 

[samiam5211]

There is about the same amount of evidence that Joe Biden acted corruptly as there is Obama was born in Kenya.

Either Trump’s supporters haven’t learned their lesson, or they don’t care that Trump just makes stuff up.

Remember how confident Trump was when he promised that his guy in Hawaii was about to prove Obama wasn’t born in the US?

Now his guy in Ukraine (Rudy) is about to prove Biden is corrupt.

Bless their heart.

 

[MT15]

I am not sure what point you were making when you said:

getting rich doesn’t have to mean money laundering. People in Congress have many ways to make money and most of them aren’t illegal. Or they are just skirting the line. Biden did nothing wrong, at all, and the comparison to the birther conspiracy is apt. So I am done talking about it unless you can bring some real evidence.

 

[MT15]

Back on topic, Esper was interviewed on Fox, evidently, as I saw a tweet from a journalist pointing out a rather telling exchange.

 

[Lapaz]

Back on topic, Esper was interviewed on Fox, evidently, as I saw a tweet from a journalist pointing out a rather telling exchange.

I'm surprised that Mark Esper wouldn't answer whether there were political discussions surrounding the aid to Ukraine, because he wasn't under oath. Seems like many of the Trump administration have been willing to lie when not under oath, and then change their story under oath. Esper may have too much integrity, so good for him.

 

[Lapaz]

When the Senate acquits or let's Trump walk on pressuring foreign countries to attempt to influence our elections, how will we deal with Trump's future impeachable acts, let alone future presidents? What does that do to the Senate's ability to punish any president? If at the end of the Senate acquittal, Trump goes on the lawn and asks multiple countries to interfere, what can congress do? I believe this takes one more step towards a dictatorship, if not under Trump, then a future unchecked president.

 

[Lapaz]

Democrats should amend the impeachment articles to cite crimes, because I keep hearing Republicans saying that this is unprecedented, because no crime is cited. They can cite impoundment and bribery, because I think they have plenty of evidence for those. Keep the obstruction and abuse of power as well. I also believe they should include obstruction of justice from the Mueller report. They are making this way too easy for Trump.

 

[Intensesaint]

Democrats should amend the impeachment articles to cite crimes, because I keep hearing Republicans saying that this is unprecedented, because no crime is cited. They can cite impoundment and bribery, because I think they have plenty of evidence for those. Keep the obstruction and abuse of power as well. I also believe they should include obstruction of justice from the Mueller report. They are making this way too easy for Trump.

Oh that would be rich, since there are no crimes. Sure, go ahead and claim the word bribery when not a single witness used the word bribery in their testimony.

 

[Taurus]

Oh that would be rich, since there are no crimes. Sure, go ahead and claim the word bribery when not a single witness used the word bribery in their testimony.

It's not up to the witnesses to determine the charge.
Everything they've described amounts to solicitation of bribery.

As a counter to the ongoing gaslighting effort from Trumpco as a "Liberal witch hunt", we have an essay from The American Conservative.

The Case for Impeachment Is Overwhelming

It is clear that he used the powers of his office in an attempt to extract a corrupt favor for his personal benefit, and this is precisely the sort of offense that impeachment was designed to keep in check.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Like the Patriot Act, this isn't just about the guy on your team, but the precedent we set for future Presidents.

 

[MT15]

It’s hard to watch the way Republican senators have responded. McConnell and Graham in particular have already outright stated they are not taking this seriously and have no intent to uphold the oath they will swear to on the Senate floor. It’s just a further eroding of America’s system of government.

 

[MT15]

Oh that would be rich, since there are no crimes. Sure, go ahead and claim the word bribery when not a single witness used the word bribery in their testimony.

So, where do you fall on these charges? It’s okay for Trump to do what he did, or it’s not okay?

 

[Intensesaint]

So, where do you fall on these charges? It’s okay for Trump to do what he did, or it’s not okay?

What did he do what was illegal? We are talking about high crimes here. I still haven't seen the democrats prove anything. They have been wanting to try and impeach Trump on anything and this is their last grasp(at straws). The Muller report was a failure, they couldn't use that so this is what they had left before election year.

It's going to die in the senate and the country knows this was a political witch hunt. Even if the left wont be honest about it lol

 

[samiam5211]

What did he do what was illegal? We are talking about high crimes here. I still haven't seen the democrats prove anything. They have been wanting to try and impeach Trump on anything and this is their last grasp(at straws). The Muller report was a failure, they couldn't use that so this is what they had left before election year.

It's going to die in the senate and the country knows this was a political witch hunt. Even if the left wont be honest about it lol

“High crimes” doesn’t even have to mean illegal.