The Impeachment Process Has Officially Begun (2 Viewers)

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    By Laura Bassett

    After months of internal arguing among Democrats over whether to impeach President Donald Trump, the dam is finally breaking in favor of trying to remove him from office. The Washington Post reported that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would announce a formal impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, following a bombshell report that Trump illegally asked Ukraine’s government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, one of his political opponents. (He essentially admitted to having done so over the weekend.)

    “Now that we have the facts, we’re ready,” Pelosi said Tuesday morning at a forum hosted by The Atlantic. At 5 p.m. the same day, she was back with more. "The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the constitution, especially when the president says Article Two says I can do whatever I want," referring to the segment of the Constitution that defines the power of the executive branch of the government. Pelosi's message was that checks and balances of those branches are just as central to the Constitution. And one more thing: "Today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry," she said at a conference broadcast on Twitter by the Huffington Post. ...

    Read the Full Story - InStyle
     
    MT15 said:
    You seem to think that Mitch is the judge in this case, which isn’t true. Mitch is supposed to be on the jury, maybe the jury foreman. He doesn’t get to decide on a directed verdict.

    As the jury foreman, he takes an oath to impartially view the evidence before he makes his verdict. What Mitch said on Fox the other day makes a mockery of the entire US criminal justice system, in a roundabout way.

    At the very least, it shows that he doesn’t take his oath seriously. It’s a dereliction of duty. I think he knows he will be defeated in the election and this is his last term in office, in my opinion.
    Click to expand...
    It may be a decent analogy to say McConnell is the jury foreman but it is incorrect to see him as JUST the jury foreman.

    This is where I don't understand the claims that he is derelict in his duty or somehow violating the Constitution. Just like the Constitution gives the House the sole power in matters of impeachment - the Senate is the sole power in matters of the impeachment trial.
     
    Intensesaint said:
    Welp...

    www.cnn.com

    New Jersey Democrat outspoken against Trump impeachment expected to switch parties, sources say | CNN Politics

    A freshman Democrat, who strongly opposes House Democrats’ impeachment of President Donald Trump, is expected to switch to the Republican Party and is telling colleagues his intentions, according to two sources.
    www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
    Click to expand...
    It will be interesting to watch seats like this. Can Democrats hang on to them - and what does impeachment do in such places - if anything?
     
    JimEverett said:
    It will be interesting to watch seats like this. Can Democrats hang on to them - and what does impeachment do in such places - if anything?
    Click to expand...

    Cuts both ways.

    By every historical metric we have, it will largely come down to who wins the presidency.


    If a Democrat wins it is likely going to be in conjunction with a holding pattern in the House and gains in the Senate and vice versa if it is Republicans. Who would likely take back seats in both houses.
     
    Beach Friends said:
    Personally, I don't think a trial in the Senate is the best method to drill down to the root of the issues I mentioned. But there are going to be plenty of people who are disappointed. I think we need to have patience.

    I really didn't expect you to accept what I wrote, but perhaps it will give you some food for thought. Do you really think that Trump is the only person who should be nervous about fully exploring the questions that would be raised by fully exploring the issues? I feel strongly that Joe Biden doesn't want to hear a lot of questions about the money laundering associated with foreign aide, but I doubt he is the only one who is squirming. I think it's a widespread problem that reaches across both sides of the aisle.
    Click to expand...

    Theres no way I’m going to follow you down your delusional rabbit hole. You have zero proof for any of it, and it furthermore makes no sense. Show me one indication that Biden has done anything unethical or illegal, I’ve asked it before. I have heard former senators say there are a handful of senators from both parties who haven’t really done the sort of stuff that makes someone rich simply by being in the Senate. (Stuff that McConnell has probably done, IMO.) And Joe Biden is one of those people.

    Trump, on the other hand, has been unethical his entire life. He used to brag about his dealings with the Mafia in NYC. He is most probably up to his ears in Russian money laundering, and we have some good indications that this is more than just idle speculation. We have some really good indications about bank fraud and tax fraud.
     
    JimEverett said:
    It may be a decent analogy to say McConnell is the jury foreman but it is incorrect to see him as JUST the jury foreman.

    This is where I don't understand the claims that he is derelict in his duty or somehow violating the Constitution. Just like the Constitution gives the House the sole power in matters of impeachment - the Senate is the sole power in matters of the impeachment trial.
    Click to expand...

    But he will certainly be violating the oath he has to take as a member of the jury in the senate, correct?
     
    Though it becomes confusing, is Van Drew now allowed to criticize the president? Or does he immediately become a never-Trumper because
    MT15 said:
    Theres no way I’m going to follow you down your delusional rabbit hole. You have zero proof for any of it, and it furthermore makes no sense. Show me one indication that Biden has done anything unethical or illegal, I’ve asked it before. I have heard former senators say there are a handful of senators from both parties who haven’t really done the sort of stuff that makes someone rich simply by being in the Senate. (Stuff that McConnell has probably done, IMO.) And Joe Biden is one of those people.

    Trump, on the other hand, has been unethical his entire life. He used to brag about his dealings with the Mafia in NYC. He is most probably up to his ears in Russian money laundering, and we have some good indications that this is more than just idle speculation. We have some really good indications about bank fraud and tax fraud.
    Click to expand...
    As of Wednesday Trump officially paid back 2 million in damages and agreed to being barred from operating a charity without specific supervision for the next ten years because he admitted he used donations to the charity to funnel money to his campaign and pay off business debts.


    I am still waiting for a single one of the conservatives that claim to care about corruption and point to Biden constantly to make that thread.


    ....I also suspect I will die before that thread is actually made though....And I suspect I probably have several good decades left before that happens.
     
    Last edited:
    I found this one, released 1 day ago, not sure if this is correct or not.

    The Senate Rules provide the oath to be sworn by each Senator: “I solemnly swear (or affirm) that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of President Donald John Trump, now pending, I will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws: So help me God.”

    here is the link to the document that specifies the form for the oath:

     
    Last edited:
    MT15 said:
    I found this one, released 1 day ago, not sure if this is correct or not.

    The Senate Rules provide the oath to be sworn by each Senator: “I solemnly swear (or affirm) that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of President Donald John Trump, now pending, I will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws: So help me God.”
    Click to expand...
    But that Oath has not been adopted in this Impeachment. Nor have any of the Senators been sworn on it. The Senate does not even have the case before it.

    There is no way that that Oath or any Oath will be administered before the Rues of Impeachment are adopted, right? And certainly not before the case is sent to the Senate where the Senate is acting as a juror (apart from its other duties).

    The notion that Senators should not act in a political interest before the actual trial seems like an extremely odd position and one that I find no textual support for in the Constitution. Even after the rules are set, I am not sure there is support for such an argument - but certainly not before.
     
    The document I found was dated 1986, I believe. It looks to me like they may have codified it.
     
    MT15 said:
    The document I found was dated 1986, I believe. It looks to me like they may have codified it.
    Click to expand...
    Maybe. I think the Senate has free reign over each Impeachment. But it doesn't matter. They will not take the Oath before making the rules, will they?
    Remwmber, the Senate is more than just a jury.
     
    MT15 said:
    Show me one indication that Biden has done anything unethical or illegal, I’ve asked it before.
    Click to expand...

    With respect to Biden and his son, I have seen plenty of people make the argument that there is nothing illegal there. I can't recall anyone go so far as there is no indication that Biden has done anything unethical.

    Before you take too much refuge in that this apparent foreign aid may be legal, take a moment to take into consideration who makes the rules. Personally, I think that the fact that they all know and / or participate in these schemes but choose not to make them illegal is unethical in itself. If one is truly concerned about corruption, it's kind of easy to see these politicians had a choice between serving D.C. and America and they choose D.C.

    MT15 said:
    I have heard former senators say there are a handful of senators from both parties who haven’t really done the sort of stuff that makes someone rich simply by being in the Senate. (Stuff that McConnell has probably done, IMO.) And Joe Biden is one of those people.
    Click to expand...

    That's the point I have been trying to convey. Trump has been rattling the sword about bringing in witnesses to show Biden doing the same thing many of them have been doing. Do you really think that it too much of a stretch of the imagination to see that these Senators fear that they are going to eventually be exposed as hypocrites if they stand up accuse Biden of what they have been doing? I am pretty comfortable with my intuition that people in that position would have a strong preference in not going down that path. No testimony, no fuss would be just fine with them.

    I don't think any of them want to go back home and try out how the "but everybody else is going it' defense flies when they run for reelection. You wanna know how I know they don't really believe it's a good excuse? As you pointed out, all but a few do the same, and not one Senator, Republican or Democrat, has stood up to use their own reception of kickbacks and influence peddling as evidence that we should all lay off Joe. I think if you want to get an idea of how fully politicians appreciate that this is wrong, just watch how Biden reacts when he gets even one question about the topic.
     
    JimEverett said:
    Maybe. I think the Senate has free reign over each Impeachment. But it doesn't matter. They will not take the Oath before making the rules, will they?
    Remwmber, the Senate is more than just a jury.
    Click to expand...

    agreed, but it doesn’t bother you that McConnell is bragging about the verdict being a foregone conclusion before they even get the articles? I feel certain you wouldn’t like it if a Democrat were the one going to trial. It just doesn’t seem right in any way shape or form.
     
    Beach Friends said:
    With respect to Biden and his son, I have seen plenty of people make the argument that there is nothing illegal there. I can't recall anyone go so far as there is no indication that Biden has done anything unethical.

    Before you take too much refuge in that this apparent foreign aid may be legal, take a moment to take into consideration who makes the rules. Personally, I think that the fact that they all know and / or participate in these schemes but choose not to make them illegal is unethical in itself. If one is truly concerned about corruption, it's kind of easy to see these politicians had a choice between serving D.C. and America and they choose D.C.



    That's the point I have been trying to convey. Trump has been rattling the sword about bringing in witnesses to show Biden doing the same thing many of them have been doing. Do you really think that it too much of a stretch of the imagination to see that these Senators fear that they are going to eventually be exposed as hypocrites if they stand up accuse Biden of what they have been doing? I am pretty comfortable with my intuition that people in that position would have a strong preference in not going down that path. No testimony, no fuss would be just fine with them.

    I don't think any of them want to go back home and try out how the "but everybody else is going it' defense flies when they run for reelection. You wanna know how I know they don't really believe it's a good excuse? As you pointed out, all but a few do the same, and not one Senator, Republican or Democrat, has stood up to use their own reception of kickbacks and influence peddling as evidence that we should all lay off Joe. I think if you want to get an idea of how fully politicians appreciate that this is wrong, just watch how Biden reacts when he gets even one question about the topic.
    Click to expand...

    There is no real factual indication that Joe Biden has done anything improper. There are all sorts of rumors about Clinton and Trump and McConnell and “fill in the blank”. Well, Trump has actually had to close his charity for egregious self dealing and close his university because he was defrauding the students, so there’s more than rumors there.

    But there hasn’t been anything about Joe Biden. The most I have heard is that he should have tried harder to convince his son not to sit on that board, but at the time his son did it, Joe was grieving the death of his other son, and Hunter was a grown man who didn’t need his father’s permission to do what he did.

    Here‘s a synopsis of Biden’s net worth: this shows that he didn’t become wealthy until after he left the WH, when he signed a lucrative book deal.

    “Joe Biden Wealth Details: When his term as Vice President ended, Joe Biden's latest financial disclosure pegged his net worth at $1.5 million. For many years before becoming VP, he would frequently refer to himself as one of the "poorest" members of congress with a net worth less than $500,000. After leaving the White House, Biden and his wife signed an $8 million joint book deal covering three deals (of which two have been written as of this writing). Soon after signing that deal, Joe and his wife purchased a $2.7 million vacation home in Delaware. He also has become an in-demand public speaker who can command hundreds of thousands of dollars for a single speech.

    According to Joe's tax returns, the Bidens earned the following amounts in various years:

    2016: $400,000

    2017: $11 million

    2018: $4.6 million”

    www.celebritynetworth.com

    Joe Biden Net Worth

    What is Joe Biden's net worth?
    www.celebritynetworth.com www.celebritynetworth.com
     

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