The Impeachment Process Has Officially Begun (4 Viewers)

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    Andrus

    Andrus

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    By Laura Bassett

    After months of internal arguing among Democrats over whether to impeach President Donald Trump, the dam is finally breaking in favor of trying to remove him from office. The Washington Post reported that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would announce a formal impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, following a bombshell report that Trump illegally asked Ukraine’s government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, one of his political opponents. (He essentially admitted to having done so over the weekend.)

    “Now that we have the facts, we’re ready,” Pelosi said Tuesday morning at a forum hosted by The Atlantic. At 5 p.m. the same day, she was back with more. "The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the constitution, especially when the president says Article Two says I can do whatever I want," referring to the segment of the Constitution that defines the power of the executive branch of the government. Pelosi's message was that checks and balances of those branches are just as central to the Constitution. And one more thing: "Today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry," she said at a conference broadcast on Twitter by the Huffington Post. ...

    Read the Full Story - InStyle
     
    donato said:
    Apologies on my end for coming off offensive, but just as an idea, maybe provable falsehoods should also be moderated. I think it’s damaging to say lies are ok.
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    I agree. Lies are not ok, but one cannot simply count on the staff to recognize them as lies, or even see the posts in question. Understand that we cannot display anything that would create a perception of not being impartial here. So I think that the best solution is to report the post, cite the alleged lie, send us links to any proof substantiating that it is in-fact, a lie, and we will deal with it as long as we are in full agreement with the source.


    superchuck500 said:
    Just throwing this out there - but it's also possible to just ignore posts that you don't think are worth responding to on the substance.
    Click to expand...

    I would highly advise that members here do exactly that. If the post lacks substance, ignore it, and consider placing the poster on your ignore list.

    I would also advise that everyone be mindful that the MCB requirements are going to be too restrictive for some, that some of the members here won't make the cut and will eventually be removed for reasons ranging from rude/malicious/insulting behavioral issues as well as issues including, but not limited to deceitful, disingenuous, disruptive, propagandist, dishonest, militant, subversive, or staff undermining posting practices. In the meantime it's about trying to get everyone on the right track and used to the decorum here in the hope that the more edgy members can conform without our having to take such action. For some, I can see that happening, for others, not so much.
     
    Andrus said:
    I agree. Lies are not ok, but one cannot simply count on the staff to recognize them as lies, or even see the posts in question. Understand that we cannot display anything that would create a perception of not being impartial here. So I think that the best solution is to report the post, cite the alleged lie, send us links to any proof substantiating that it is in-fact, a lie, and we will deal with it as long as we are in full agreement with the source.




    I would highly advise that members here do exactly that. If the post lacks substance, ignore it, and consider placing the poster on your ignore list.

    I would also advise that everyone be mindful that the MCB requirements are going to be too restrictive for some, that some of the members here won't make the cut and will eventually be removed for reasons ranging from rude/malicious/insulting behavioral issues as well as issues including, but not limited to deceitful, disingenuous, disruptive, propagandist, dishonest, militant, subversive, or staff undermining posting practices. In the meantime it's about trying to get everyone on the right track and used to the decorum here in the hope that the more edgy members can conform without our having to take such action. For some, I can see that happening, for others, not so much.
    Click to expand...

    basically I interpreted this as BobE is sooooooooooooooo screwed.
     
    Andrus said:
    I agree. Lies are not ok, but one cannot simply count on the staff to recognize them as lies, or even see the posts in question. Understand that we cannot display anything that would create a perception of not being impartial here. So I think that the best solution is to report the post, cite the alleged lie, send us links to any proof substantiating that it is in-fact, a lie, and we will deal with it as long as we are in full agreement with the source.




    I would highly advise that members here do exactly that. If the post lacks substance, ignore it, and consider placing the poster on your ignore list.

    I would also advise that everyone be mindful that the MCB requirements are going to be too restrictive for some, that some of the members here won't make the cut and will eventually be removed for reasons ranging from rude/malicious/insulting behavioral issues as well as issues including, but not limited to deceitful, disingenuous, disruptive, propagandist, dishonest, militant, subversive, or staff undermining posting practices. In the meantime it's about trying to get everyone on the right track and used to the decorum here in the hope that the more edgy members can conform without our having to take such action. For some, I can see that happening, for others, not so much.
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    This post has high reaction metrics among the Chuck demographic.
     
    Joe Okc said:
    I think we been getting more than enough Trump investigations... Need to just leave the guy alone and let him do his job that he was voted in to do.
    Click to expand...

    so, is the/a primary contention that Trump isn't doing his job because the Democrats aren't "leaving him alone"?

    There are other things that relate to his job not getting done. All of the time (on taxpayer money) that's spent golfing, instead of doing his job. The light days and largely empty schedules (these are a matter of public record if you want to find them) that Trump routinely has. The rallies that he decides to hold instead of executing the responsibilities of his office. All of the vacancies and removals of posts and bureaus that facilitate the functional operation of various departments and offices of the government (I can speak to one federal judicial office in relative disarray entirely due to Trump). The apparent refusal to hold press briefings, a key way that Presidents are accountable to the American people (tweeting isn't really the same thing).

    The distinction, of course, is that some of these are out of the President's control and in the hands of the Democrat while others are entirely in the control of the President.

    But if the problem is Trump's inability to be a functional President, then Trump ought to be a bigger focus of disapproval vis a vis "doing the job he was voted in to do." Trump not doing his job isn't only - or even primarily, I'd argue - the fault of the Democrats. Of course. this also should take into consideration that part of the reason this inquiry is being pursued is because he wasn't doing his job properly - had he, then this would be moot and would neuter your argument on that count, too. And it's really the only leg to stand on, and even that wound is also largely self-inflicted.
     
    Interesting poll numbers from Independents on Impeachment.

    The second factor is the view among Independents that impeachment reflects the agenda of the political establishment and the media. Regardless of what they think about Trump’s behavior, Independents see impeachment as a continuation of the partisan bickering and media excess that began even before his inauguration. By massive margins, Independents say that the impeachment issue is “more important to politicians than it is to me” (62% to 22%) and “more important to the media than it is to me” (61% to 23%). It is hard to read this as anything but a warning to the Democratic leadership and candidates: Stop talking about issues that matter to you, not to me. Impeachment proceedings are viewed as bread and circuses for the anti-Trump crowd in Washington and the media—or, as Stanford political science professor Morris Fiorina described it to me, “entertainment and confirmation.” That’s a dangerous perception as Democrats approach one of the most consequential and fraught elections of our times.

    www.vanityfair.com

    New Polling Suggests Democrats’ Impeachment Push Could Alienate Key Voters

    Data exclusive to Vanity Fair shows impeachment could be a losing issue for Democrats hoping to recruit Independents in 2020. “Lots of people who don’t like Trump who are still prepared to vote for him,” says one political science expert.
    www.vanityfair.com www.vanityfair.com
     
    SaintForLife said:
    Interesting poll numbers from Independents on Impeachment.

    The second factor is the view among Independents that impeachment reflects the agenda of the political establishment and the media. Regardless of what they think about Trump’s behavior, Independents see impeachment as a continuation of the partisan bickering and media excess that began even before his inauguration. By massive margins, Independents say that the impeachment issue is “more important to politicians than it is to me” (62% to 22%) and “more important to the media than it is to me” (61% to 23%). It is hard to read this as anything but a warning to the Democratic leadership and candidates: Stop talking about issues that matter to you, not to me. Impeachment proceedings are viewed as bread and circuses for the anti-Trump crowd in Washington and the media—or, as Stanford political science professor Morris Fiorina described it to me, “entertainment and confirmation.” That’s a dangerous perception as Democrats approach one of the most consequential and fraught elections of our times.

    www.vanityfair.com

    New Polling Suggests Democrats’ Impeachment Push Could Alienate Key Voters

    Data exclusive to Vanity Fair shows impeachment could be a losing issue for Democrats hoping to recruit Independents in 2020. “Lots of people who don’t like Trump who are still prepared to vote for him,” says one political science expert.
    www.vanityfair.com www.vanityfair.com
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    If Democrats don’t enforce the rules than we end up with anarchy. If Republicans and Independents don’t want to enforce the rules then they all can piss off.
     
    Here is another poll with results that are probably not what the Democrats were hoping for.
    thehill.com

    Poll finds sharp swing in opposition to impeachment among independents

    A new national survey finds independent voters leading a sharp swing in opposition to impeachment, the second major poll to produce those findings this week.The latest national poll from Emerson Co…
    thehill.com
     
    Do news organizations have talking points or meetings about the phrases they will use to describe a specific situation? Why do they all tend to use the same phrases?
     
    SaintForLife said:
    Interesting poll numbers from Independents on Impeachment.
    Click to expand...
    I think it's important to recognize that the source is an opinion piece in which the author subjectively interprets the objective data from a poll. There's nothing in the actual objective poll data that supports or refutes the author's subjective interpretations.

    The objective, uninterpreted results of the poll can be found here.

    Let's look at on example of how the author presents accurate data and then offers their subjective opinion about what the data shows. The author said:
    ...Independents say that the impeachment issue is “more important to politicians than it is to me” (62% to 22%) and “more important to the media than it is to me” (61% to 23%). It is hard to read this as anything but a warning to the Democratic leadership and candidates: Stop talking about issues that matter to you, not to me.
    Click to expand...
    This first part is accurately quoted from the poll and objectively true:
    ...Independents say that the impeachment issue is “more important to politicians than it is to me” (62% to 22%) and “more important to the media than it is to me” (61% to 23%).
    Click to expand...
    However, this part is a completely subjective interpretation of the objective data.
    It is hard to read this as anything but a warning to the Democratic leadership and candidates: Stop talking about issues that matter to you, not to me.
    Click to expand...
    This is merely the author's opinion and the polling data actually refutes their interpretation of the polling data.

    First, both questions were framed as "more important to media/politicians, than it is to me." A person can believe that an issue is important to themselves and also more important to others. Saying the issue is more important to others is not the same as saying the issue is not "important to me."

    Second, the author actually reveals a partisan bias in their interpretation of the data. The question was:
    Do you agree or disagree with the following statements? The impeachment inquiry is more important to politicians than it is to me.
    Click to expand...
    There's nothing in the poll that supports the author's assumption that the participants think impeachment is only more important to Democrats or only a Democratic issue.

    Third and most important, the poll actually asked participants if the impeachment inquiry was important to them. 56% said that the impeachment inquiry was important to them and 58% said they were following the media coverage of the impeachment inquiry.

    This is just one example of how the author's subjective interpretations of the polling data are not actually supported by the polling data. There's nothing in the polling data that suggests "this is ... a warning to the Democratic leadership and candidates: Stop talking about issues that matter to you, not to me."

    I think it's important that we actively recognize and separate what is opinion from what is fact as we read and listen to things.
     
    Last edited:
    SaintForLife said:
    Here is another poll with results that are probably not what the Democrats were hoping for.
    Click to expand...
    This poll and the other poll you cited disagree on how many independents support impeachment.

    Which of the two polls do you think is more accurate and why do you think that?
     

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