The Impeachment Process Has Officially Begun (23 Viewers)

[Andrus]

By Laura Bassett

After months of internal arguing among Democrats over whether to impeach President Donald Trump, the dam is finally breaking in favor of trying to remove him from office. The Washington Post reported that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would announce a formal impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, following a bombshell report that Trump illegally asked Ukraine’s government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, one of his political opponents. (He essentially admitted to having done so over the weekend.)

“Now that we have the facts, we’re ready,” Pelosi said Tuesday morning at a forum hosted by The Atlantic. At 5 p.m. the same day, she was back with more. "The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the constitution, especially when the president says Article Two says I can do whatever I want," referring to the segment of the Constitution that defines the power of the executive branch of the government. Pelosi's message was that checks and balances of those branches are just as central to the Constitution. And one more thing: "Today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry," she said at a conference broadcast on Twitter by the Huffington Post. ...

Read the Full Story - InStyle

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

It's amazing that the average American's attention span is so short that if you can't have a trial, vote and move forward within a day or two, they're off to the next shiny object. Trump has done countless things that would have absolutely destroyed any other president or presidential candidate, yet our attention span is so short and in need of excitement, that it no longer bothers us as a whole group. We're outraged for a day or two, then we go back to apathy, then something else happens and we're outraged, then back to apathy. For each lull in our outrage over things that previously would have been the end of someone's political career, we seem to forget or dismiss what happened previously.

I was having dinner with my mother the other night and the impeachment topic came up. Now, she's in general a Republican voter, but can be moved from time to time to vote other if the candidate isn't right. When we discussed the impeachment, her thoughts were that it's been going on for too long now and that she just rather them drop the whole thing because she's tired of hearing about it. I asked if that meant she was fine with what Trump did and she stated no, she thought it was something really corrupt to do, but she still just didn't care enough to be bombarded daily with new information. She'd rather just go about her daily routine, watch her shows, get more "happy" related news and live her life. Since this isn't something directly affecting her, and they can't just open/shut case this thing and move forward, there's no need to even have the hearings/trial anyway. I've seen several people on this forums and heard other people personally discussing this same idea. "Why should I care? This doesn't affect me. If he had done something really bad, they'd already been done." People seem to forget that the Clinton impeachment process started in October and ended in February.

I don’t think it’s attention
It’s literacy - the inability to distinguish signal from noise

 

[Joe Okc]

The real point is to root out corruption.

haha.. right... As long as we don;t investigate former Vice President Biden and his conduct with any Ukrainian Officials.

The question was asked... What's the reason?

To keep pressure on Trump and to take away from any possibility of Biden getting investigated. I heard a good one.. What if the Whistleblower was involved in corruption with Biden... IF an investigation was started into Biden he might also get implicated.. So this whole thing was started to keep him from being involved in scandal.

But I really feel it's just a pre-election Campaign smear.. Democrats are getting million upon millions of free press right now attacking Trump and not a single penny is coming out of there Democratic campaign funds to do so.. Talk about trying to swing last minute undecided voters while using a free press...

 

[superchuck500]

haha.. right... As long as we don;t investigate former Vice President Biden and his conduct with any Ukrainian Officials.

The question was asked... What's the reason?

To keep pressure on Trump and to take away from any possibility of Biden getting investigated. I heard a good one.. What if the Whistleblower was involved in corruption with Biden... IF an investigation was started into Biden he might also get implicated.. So this whole thing was started to keep him from being involved in scandal.

But I really feel it's just a pre-election Campaign smear.. Democrats are getting million upon millions of free press right now attacking Trump and not a single penny is coming out of there Democratic campaign funds to do so.. Talk about trying to swing last minute undecided voters while using a free press...

The Joe Biden / Ukraine theory is junk. It doesn't make sense.

I don't know enough about Hunter Biden's activities, but the Justice Department is certainly capable of investigating him without Trump having to send his personal lawyer to Kiev to make arrangements.

 

[insidejob]

The Joe Biden / Ukraine theory is junk. It doesn't make sense.

I don't know enough about Hunter Biden's activities, but the Justice Department is certainly capable of investigating him without Trump having to send his personal lawyer to Kiev to make arrangements.

Wasn't Hunter Biden's being on the board of Burisma already investigated and nothing illegal was found to have occurred?

ETA:

2. What role did Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden play in Ukraine?

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In the spring of 2014, as Joe Biden began his trips to Ukraine, Hunter Biden took a position on the board of the country's largest private gas company, Burisma. He was reportedly paid up to $50,000 a month.

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The question of a possible conflict of interest — with Hunter Biden profiting in a country where his father was actively working with the government — was raised publicly at the time.

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Politics

Democrats Intensify Calls For Potential Impeachment Over Whistleblower Complaint​

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Joe Biden said that he followed government ethics regulations and that his son was a private citizen who made his own decisions.

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Also, the Obama administration actually supported investigations into corruption. This included looking into the gas company because the owner, Mykola Zlochevsky, was close to the ousted president and they had both fled the country before the Bidens became regular visitors.

After Biden got the corrupt prosecutor fired, Ukraine investigated Hunter Biden and found he'd done nothing illegal nor did Joe is the understanding I have. Trump wanted Ukraine to re-open the investigation that was already closed.

 

[JRad]

haha.. right... As long as we don;t investigate former Vice President Biden and his conduct with any Ukrainian Officials.

The question was asked... What's the reason?

To keep pressure on Trump and to take away from any possibility of Biden getting investigated. I heard a good one.. What if the Whistleblower was involved in corruption with Biden... IF an investigation was started into Biden he might also get implicated.. So this whole thing was started to keep him from being involved in scandal.

But I really feel it's just a pre-election Campaign smear.. Democrats are getting million upon millions of free press right now attacking Trump and not a single penny is coming out of there Democratic campaign funds to do so.. Talk about trying to swing last minute undecided voters while using a free press...

Literally no one is stopping an investigation into Joe Biden. You'd be doing Democratic voters a favor.

 

[superchuck500]

Wasn't Hunter Biden's being on the board of Burisma already investigated and nothing illegal was found to have occurred?

I don't know about that, but the Burisma investigation in Ukraine stemmed from the company's principle's (Zlochevsky) alleged money laundering and other shady business - and was already underway by the time Hunter Biden joined the board. The UK was pushing for more to be done in Ukraine to investigate Zlochevsky and Ukraine Chief Prosecutor Viktor Shokin had effectively turned the investigation off - nothing was happening.

Cast against a bigger picture of corruption in Ukraine that was threatening the country's ability to continue to receive support form the UK, the IMF, and ultimately the US, it became official US policy to join the UK and IMF in demanding Shokin's removal. Joe Biden became the White House's representative on that matter and he pressured for (and used leverage in the form of loan guarantees) to have Shokin removed.

The UK and IMF praised Shokin's removal as a step toward cleaning up Ukraine - and, if anything, actually raised the likelihood of reinvigorating the Zlochevsky/Burisma investigation. The idea that Joe Biden was actually working on a personal mission to alleviate his son from investigation just doesn't make sense - it's the kind of conspiracy theory hatched by minor facts and background associations that, if amplified without reference to the major facts and actual context, appears to suggest corrupt motives. That's exactly what John Solomon did in his book that launched Rudy G's alleged crusade last December. Of course, that whole thing is a dirty mess (Solomon's work is paid-for by Ukraine interests that are also caught up in the Rudy / Lev Parnas investigation that has led to multiple arrests including Parnas who is supposedly now cooperating with DOJ).

 

[brandon]

haha.. right... As long as we don;t investigate former Vice President Biden and his conduct with any Ukrainian Officials.

I’ve said this over and over.

We’re perfectly fine with investigating the Bidens if there’s cause to do so. If a crime was committed, put them on trial and put them in jail.

You absolutely can’t say the same about Trump, can you?

 

[N.O.Bronco]

haha.. right... As long as we don;t investigate former Vice President Biden and his conduct with any Ukrainian Officials.

The question was asked... What's the reason?

To keep pressure on Trump and to take away from any possibility of Biden getting investigated. I heard a good one.. What if the Whistleblower was involved in corruption with Biden... IF an investigation was started into Biden he might also get implicated.. So this whole thing was started to keep him from being involved in scandal.

But I really feel it's just a pre-election Campaign smear.. Democrats are getting million upon millions of free press right now attacking Trump and not a single penny is coming out of there Democratic campaign funds to do so.. Talk about trying to swing last minute undecided voters while using a free press...

Why didn’t they investigate the Biden’s?

That is the question, isn’t it Joe?

Because if foreign corruption and corrupt practices were such a concern of Republicans and the Trump administration, if Hunter’s alleged improprieties so obviously or likely criminal, how come they never pursued investigations or criminal charges it in the two years they held majorities in every chamber? How come they made no attempt to pass any laws that would correct for the sort of corrupt practices they now want to claim without evidence Hunter engaged in? How come they still don’t want to take up this sort of legislation?

Why did Trump not inform or relay to ANY of his top career ambassadors about his desire to root out corruption in Ukraine broadly? Why did Trump instead complain to people like Rex Tillerson that laws like the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act was an annoyance to him because it prevented him from bribing foreign official to get deals done he wanted for his business? Why did Trump only seem to care about announcements of investigations into his political rival and rival’s party? And never once stated he personally had an interest in broader Ukrainian corruption?

There are a lot of questions here Joe, you just aren’t asking them.

 

[Joe Okc]

You absolutely can’t say the same about Trump, can you?

We just got through three years of Mueller with no Russian Collusion... Now we are going through this with no Quid Pro Quo.

I think we been getting more than enough Trump investigations... Need to just leave the guy alone and let him do his job that he was voted in to do.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

haha.. right... As long as we don;t investigate former Vice President Biden and his conduct with any Ukrainian Officials.

The question was asked... What's the reason?

To keep pressure on Trump and to take away from any possibility of Biden getting investigated. I heard a good one.. What if the Whistleblower was involved in corruption with Biden... IF an investigation was started into Biden he might also get implicated.. So this whole thing was started to keep him from being involved in scandal.

But I really feel it's just a pre-election Campaign smear.. Democrats are getting million upon millions of free press right now attacking Trump and not a single penny is coming out of there Democratic campaign funds to do so.. Talk about trying to swing last minute undecided voters while using a free press...

What if Putin is the whistleblower- can’t believe y’all haven’t trotted that one out yet

And as the above post points out the Hunter Biden stuff has already been picked over
I know y’all while keep benghazing this until you get a counterfactual answer
But even if Hunter Biden is making $ off his last name, Joe is not implicated at all outside of Trump/Giulliani’s fever dreams

But Joe as an exercise maybe we can compare The Biden kid to the Trump kids and weigh in on nepotism

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Literally no one is stopping an investigation into Joe Biden. You'd be doing Democratic voters a favor.

I’ve said this before- I’d have very little problem with low key getting Biden off the board

 

[superchuck500]

Why didn’t they investigate the Biden’s?

That is the question, isn’t it Joe?

Because if foreign corruption and corrupt practices were such a concern of Republicans and the Trump administration, if Hunter’s alleged improprieties so obviously or likely criminal, how come they never pursued investigations or criminal charges it in the two years they held majorities in every chamber? How come they made no attempt to pass any laws that would correct for the sort of corrupt practices they now want to claim without evidence Hunter engaged in? How come they still don’t want to take up this sort of legislation?

Why did Trump not inform or relay to ANY of his top career ambassadors about his desire to root out corruption in Ukraine broadly? Why did Trump instead complain to people like Rex Tillerson that laws like the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act was an annoyance to him because it prevented him from bribing foreign official to get deals done he wanted for his business? Why did Trump only seem to care about announcements of investigations into his political rival and rival’s party? And never once stated he personally had an interest in broader Ukrainian corruption?

There are a lot of questions here Joe, you just aren’t asking them.

Why Ukraine didn't launch a new investigation of Joe Biden is obvious. The reason has been stated by the Zelensky administration and confirmed by testimony in the House hearings including from members of the US diplomatic team in Ukraine and the White House Eastern Europe expert.

Ukraine saw that it was obviously a demand to engage in a US domestic political matter.
Ukraine saw it as potentially damaging to Ukrainian interests to join such an effort.
Zelensky saw it as potentially damaging to his administration vis-a-vis Ukrainian domestic politics to appear to be Trump's political errand boy.
US policy experts and diplomats agreed that it would be potentially damaging to US interests to demand this of Zelensky.

Why isn't DOJ/FBI investigating Biden's activities regarding Viktor Shokin? I suspect it's because most of the officials that would supervise such an investigation know its a bunk theory. Why isn't DOJ/FBI investigating Hunter Biden? I suspect they actually might be.

 

[superchuck500]

We just got through three years of Mueller with no Russian Collusion... Now we are going through this with no Quid Pro Quo.

I think we been getting more than enough Trump investigations... Need to just leave the guy alone and let him do his job that he was voted in to do.

That job doesn't include the ability to leverage official US foreign aid to demand a precarious ally engage in activity intended to aid the political interests of the present.

As far as I can tell, there has been no investigation of Trump doing things the president is supposed/allowed to do. The trade war has been a mess but I haven't seen any hearings to challenge the president's activity. He pardoned alleged war criminals - haven't seen any hearings about that. He's removed most reference to climate change in the executive branch, haven't seen any hearings about that. He completely undermined a long-standing Korean ally to try to make headway with the DPRK - haven't seen any hearings about that.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

We just got through three years of Mueller with no Russian Collusion... Now we are going through this with no Quid Pro Quo.

I think we been getting more than enough Trump investigations... Need to just leave the guy alone and let him do his job that he was voted in to do.

So that answer is no?

Since I know you are politically attune enough to remember the president was all but found guilty on up to ten counts of obstruction(which affected critical pathways of the core investigation), and I know I have mentioned to you several times about his involvement directing the commission of felony campaign finance violations, that’s executioner is going to jail for.

To which I am almost positive you have no interest in holding him to account for those crimes. Correct??

 

[coldseat]

We just got through three years of Mueller with no Russian Collusion... Now we are going through this with no Quid Pro Quo.

I think we been getting more than enough Trump investigations... Need to just leave the guy alone and let him do his job that he was voted in to do.

The quid pro quo was as explicit as any that's ever come to light.

You live in fantasy land when you can't accept simple, provable facts!

The leave the guy alone line it tired and useless. Come up with something better.

 

[coldseat]

The destruction of this country is taking place at the hands of right wing media. These people do not care about America, just their cause.

After Fiona Hill dismantles conspiracy theories, right-wing media goes on the attack

Appearing before Congress Thursday, Fiona Hill deflated right-wing conspiracy theories that Ukraine, and not necessarily Russia, meddled in the 2016 election.

www.cnn.com

 

[buzd]

We just got through three years of Mueller with no Russian Collusion... Now we are going through this with no Quid Pro Quo.

I think we been getting more than enough Trump investigations... Need to just leave the guy alone and let him do his job that he was voted in to do.

Actually, in a sense, there was Russian collusion. The Trump campaign knew the email leaks were coming, and tailored their campaign strategy around it. The actual crime, though, is conspiracy, and since Mueller didn't find evidence that they were actually working in concert with the Russians, he felt there wasn't enough to charge. And a bunch of people went to jail and there was plenty of obstruction.

There was definitely quid pro quo, and QPQ is not necessarily illegal. The fact is, Trump used public funds mandated by Congress to (try to) leverage a foreign country to do something for him personally. That is both unethical, highly illegal, and in direct violation of the Constitution.

Words matter.

 

[wardorican]

We just got through three years of Mueller with no Russian Collusion... Now we are going through this with no Quid Pro Quo.

I think we been getting more than enough Trump investigations... Need to just leave the guy alone and let him do his job that he was voted in to do.

He could also stop breaking the law, or bending it so much to invite investigations.

A scene from Liar Liar comes to mind..