Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (2 Viewers)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[bdb13]

I do not expect this to stop anytime soon. Many socially progressive viewpoints were advanced in the 90's and early 2000's; however the left pushed a bit too much after that and added fuel to propagandists like Limbaugh, Carlson and Hannity that paved the way for more propagandists like Shapiro. Eventually what they were selling was bought by independents. The reversal of Roe is only the first tip of the far right's hand. It's going to take more for independents to wake up and start reevaluating their positions.

And paired with that, it's important for the Democratic party to focus on winning independents. That continues to be where it's all won and lost.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

All I gotta say is... Manchin 2024!

 

[bdb13]

All I gotta say is... Manchin 2024!

He would undoubtedly defeat Trump imo.. no one else can come close to saying that.

I'm sure he won't be running.. but that's a heck of a claim.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

He would undoubtedly defeat Trump imo.. no one else can come close to saying that.

I'm sure he won't be running.. but that's a heck of a claim.

That's the Catch 22 for Dems in 2024. I doubt anyone that can win the party nomination could beat Trump or DeSantis. Maybe someone like Arizona Senator Mark Kelly.

 

[Saintamaniac]

And paired with that, it's important for the Democratic party to focus on winning independents. That continues to be where it's all won and lost.

Unfortunately, that's where it used to be won or lost. Moving forward, it's going to be won or lost depending on if the state secretary of state is anything other than a Trumplican. 2020 set the stage for elections at the state level moving forward. Democratic candidates in those states won't get a fair shot at winning no matter how many independents they win over. Republicans will simply repeat their 2020 tried and tested strategy of lying and when caught in the lie, continue to lie. Manchin saw to it that voting rights got flushed right down the toilet with truth.

 

[SystemShock]

You are not alone. I only hope that this backfires in spectacular fashion much like the Satanic Temple using laws that these so-call "Christians" pass forcing their beliefs on everyone else. However, if a Republican teenager got pregnant, their parents would do what Republicans do and just keep it hush as they travel to a state that allows abortions and then turn around to the first mic put in their face and proclaim how much they are in favor of banning abortions.

... or go abroad to "take a course on _________" ... or a "vacay" in Cancun.

 

[superchuck500]

Then why the Mitch McConnell statement that he thinks a national ban is possible? Is it because he wants to fire up his voters? I think it has more of an effect on the suburban women than the R base.

Yes definitely. They’re now going to say that they need a pass a national ban to get the vote out again.

Though a national ban shares the same federalism problem that a national protection would.

 

[zztop]

However, if a Republican teenager got pregnant, their parents would do what Republicans do and just keep it hush as they travel to a state that allows abortions and then turn around to the first mic put in their face and proclaim how much they are in favor of banning abortions.

I came across this, some experiences some doctors had with just these types of people (or similar, since some are from other countries)

“The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”

When the Anti-Choice Choose By Joyce Arthur Copyright © September, 2000 Available in a French translation Available in a German translation Available in a Russian translation Abortion is a highly p…

joycearthur.com

basically (in my opinion) a lot of people are hypocrites

 

[bdb13]

Unfortunately, that's where it used to be won or lost. Moving forward, it's going to be won or lost depending on if the state secretary of state is anything other than a Trumplican. 2020 set the stage for elections at the state level moving forward. Democratic candidates in those states won't get a fair shot at winning no matter how many independents they win over. Republicans will simply repeat their 2020 tried and tested strategy of lying and when caught in the lie, continue to lie. Manchin saw to it that voting rights got flushed right down the toilet with truth.

Not defending Manchin because he's as ingenuine as anyone else in this stuff.. but like with almost everything else they've done - and considering we're talking about West Virginie Manchin as the decisive vote - Democrats overreached with an expansive bill reaching out in a multitude of areas in lieu of a bill much more narrowly focused upon preventing the very real situation you've described there that's going to play out.

Manchin and Sinema may not have gone for anything.. I don't know, like I said they're as full of shirt as anyone else.. but it was just dumbassed strategy after dumbassed strategy imo with way too much time pushing stuff we knew Manchin wasn't inclined to deal on.


So what the fork was the point of it then? I've said it before but as someone who's fairly in the middle.. if I didn't know any better I'd say it looks as if they've screwed themselves with horrific strategy and have decided they now have to just ride it out.. and they're just hoping that somehow someway that wall they see in front of them will be forgiving. It won't be.

They're all to blame, and from top to bottom they've squandered this.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Yes definitely. They’re now going to say that they need a pass a national ban to get the vote out again.

Though a national ban shares the same federalism problem that a national protection would.

It would just end up back at the supreme court where, short of a Pelican Brief style reduction of the court, they would just vote in favor of keeping abortion illegal.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Manchin and Sinema may not have gone for anything.. I don't know, like I said there as full of shirt as anyone else.. but it was just dumbassed strategy after dumbassed strategy imo with way too much time pushing stuff we knew Manchin wasn't inclined to deal on.

I'm going to call BS on this and not in a confrontational way. Manchin was presented with a number of compromises, some of which he brokered, and still came out against it. Right and wrong no longer matter. The only thing that matters is re-election and if your people back home believe a lying incest-craving twice impeached traitor ex president, then you're conscience no longer matters. Your honor no longer matters. Your pride no longer matters. The only thing that matters is staying in power.

 

[SystemShock]

That's the Catch 22 for Dems in 2024. I doubt anyone that can win the party nomination could beat Trump or DeSantis. Maybe someone like Arizona Senator Mark Kelly.

If recent history is any indication, the Dems will try to out-woke and out-left each other, and the last person standing will be unpalatable to independents, and in the process, dilute the vote count as the followers of Bern... one of the candidates will throw a massive tantrum because their candidate wasn't nominated, and waste their vote on the Green Party candidate.

All while Reps will march down to vote for DeSantis.

 

[bdb13]

I'm going to call BS on this and not in a confrontational way. Manchin was presented with a number of compromises, some of which he brokered, and still came out against it. Right and wrong no longer matter. The only thing that matters is re-election and if your people back home believe a lying incest-craving twice impeached traitor ex president, then you're conscience no longer matters. Your honor no longer matters. Your pride no longer matters. The only thing that matters is staying in power.

That's fair enough.. just curious genuinely out of the sake of curiosity and I know I can look it up, but do you have an idea of what Manchin turned down in the end?

 

[J-DONK]

If recent history is any indication, the Dems will try to out-woke and out-left each other, and the last person standing will be unpalatable to independents, and in the process, dilute the vote count as the followers of Bern... one of the candidates will throw a massive tantrum because their candidate wasn't nominated, and waste their vote on the Green Party candidate.

All while Reps will march down to vote for DeSantis.

You never blame the voters for the candidates flaws. It outs you as someone who can't rationalize why candidates actually lose elections. Biden, and Obama both got progressives to vote for them when HRC couldn't. Why was that?

 

[bdb13]

You never blame the voters for the candidates flaws. It outs you as someone who can't rationalize why candidates actually lose elections. Biden, and Obama both got progressives to vote for them when HRC couldn't. Why was that?

Independents/moderates didn't vote for her either. She would have easily won if they had.

 

[zztop]

she lacked charisma for one thing.

 

[Taurus]

You never blame the voters for the candidates flaws. It outs you as someone who can't rationalize why candidates actually lose elections. Biden, and Obama both got progressives to vote for them when HRC couldn't. Why was that?

Because she's as genuine as a Times Square Rolex and has all the personal magnetism of aluminum.

 

[SystemShock]

You never blame the voters for the candidates flaws. It outs you as someone who can't rationalize why candidates actually lose elections. Biden, and Obama both got progressives to vote for them when HRC couldn't. Why was that?

I certainly can blame the voters for the flaws of elected officials.

The time to throw tantrums is during the primaries, not after your candidate (who didn't even belong to the party to begin with) loses the nomination, and your refusal to vote on election day helps someone like Trump reach the presidency.

Oust myself as someone who can't rationalize.... that's funny right there.

Learn to attack the argument, not the person making the argument, because when you do the latter, it doesn't make you sound like you think it makes you sound.