Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (6 Viewers)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Eh, authority has more to do with human nature than religion. It's one of the primary characteristics of any collective group, regardless of beliefs.

Any higher power that requires us to bow to their superiority and follow their rules to receive their approval is inherently authoritarian. I'm not assessing it as good or bad, wrong or right, but it is objectively authoritarian.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Well, Christianity was forced on what we know as the Western hemisphere through conquest, slavery, oppression, by 3 different empires, so...

Did you miss this part of my post that you quoted?

This is not a new problem either. Christofascism through the ages has been the cause of more mass murder and oppression than any other philosphy, religion or ideology.

 

[DaveXA]

Any higher power that requires us to bow to their superiority and follow their rules to receive their approval is inherently authoritarian. I'm not assessing it as good or bad, wrong or right, but it is objectively authoritarian.

And I'm saying people do that because it's learned behavior and has little to do with religion. I mean, some of the most authoritarian governments in the world are completely anti religious.

 

[LA - L.A.]

And I'm saying people do that because it's learned behavior and has little to do with religion. I mean, some of the most authoritarian governments in the world are completely anti religious.

Doesn't all of Christianity teach that people have to accept Christ as their savior and follow Christ's and God's rules to have peaceful eternal life?

 

[DaveXA]

Doesn't all of Christianity teach that people have to accept Christ as their savior and follow Christ's and God's rules to have peaceful eternal life?

Yes, and that doesn't make an individual an authoritarian, nor does it make them more inclined to follow an authoritarian. If anything, it actually is supposed to make one less inclined to trust authoritarians.

That's an entirely different thread though.

 

[MT15]

You think this has anything to do with the GOP stance on abortion? I do.

 

[DaveXA]

You think this has anything to do with the GOP stance on abortion? I do.

Yeah, that's not surprising.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Yes, and that doesn't make an individual an authoritarian, nor does it make them more inclined to follow an authoritarian. If anything, it actually is supposed to make one less inclined to trust authoritarians.

That's an entirely different thread though.

I understand the miscommunication now. Please understand that I'm speaking my truth and not discounting or dismissing you or anyone else's truth.

My problem with almost every religion is that the gods of almost every religion are authoritarian in nature. I'm not saying the followers of the gods are authoritarian by nature, I'm saying the gods that they follow are authoritarian by nature.

I think it's illogical and unbelievable that any god would actually demand worship and subservience and dole out favors on a strictly transactional basis. And if there is an actual god or gods that are that way, they can pound sand as far as I'm concerned. That's just my truth and my beliefs. I don't give in to bullying and extortion, not even from a god.

 

[DaveXA]

I understand the miscommunication now. Please understand that I'm speaking my truth and not discounting or dismissing you or anyone else's truth.

My problem with almost every religion is that the gods of almost every religion are authoritarian in nature. I'm not saying the followers of the gods are authoritarian by nature, I'm saying the gods that they follow are authoritarian by nature.

I think it's illogical and unbelievable that any god would actually demand worship and subservience and dole out favors on a strictly transactional basis. And if there is an actual god or gods that are that way, they can pound sand as far as I'm concerned. That's just my truth and my beliefs. I don't give in to bullying and extortion, not even from a god.

Sure, I get all that. I'm simply saying that authoritarian is a human construct. It has nothing to do with the deities and everything to do with how humans perceive things.

But I hear you. Your truth is your truth.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Sure, I get all that. I'm simply saying that authoritarian is a human construct. It has nothing to do with the deities and everything to do with how humans perceive things.

But I hear you. Your truth is your truth.

I think we are close in mindset. It sounds like you don't perceive of Christ and Yaweh as the authoritarians that they are mostly portrayed as being. I don't either. I respect and incorporate the core philosophy of Christ, as I read and understood them for myself from the New Testament, into my philosphy of life.

 

[SystemShock]

Did you miss this part of my post that you quoted?

No, I didn't. The point is, what you call christofascism, is not a subset of Christianity. It it the reason why Christianity spread across what we call the Western hemisphere. You can't have one without the other. Unlike Islam, Christianity has been forced from "the best heathen is a dead heathen" to "having a personal relation with Jesus" by the rise of secular humanism since the Age of Reason; it's just trying to go back to its roots.

 

[SystemShock]

And I'm saying people do that because it's learned behavior and has little to do with religion. I mean, some of the most authoritarian governments in the world are completely anti religious.

They have been anti-church, not anti-religion. There is a difference there. For example, in North Korea, the State is the religion, as it was in the U.S.S.R., or like old Japan, where the emperor was believed to be a god. But when churches start speaking against these States which are to be followed religiously, then they become enemies of the State, like you see today in places like Nicaragua, where Catholic priests are being jailed, but they are not being jailed for being Catholic, they are being jailed for their anti-State rhetoric, whether actual or perceived.

 

[DaveXA]

They have been anti-church, not anti-religion. There is a difference there. For example, in North Korea, the State is the religion, as it was in the U.S.S.R., or like old Japan, where the emperor was believed to be a god. But when churches start speaking against these States which are to be followed religiously, then they become enemies of the State, like you see today in places like Nicaragua, where Catholic priests are being jailed, but they are not being jailed for being Catholic, they are being jailed for their anti-State rhetoric, whether actual or perceived.

Sure, it's a distinction, but my core point stands that authoritarianism is a human construct/trait, whether it's religion or the state or something else, any society or collective is going to have some sort of authoritative structure to keep that group intact. And it isn't even unique to humans. Animals often have a hierarchy or power structure in groups.

 

[DaveXA]

Anyway, back to the thread topic, interestingly enough, now Nikki Haley is siding with the woman in Texas. Curious choice.

 

[SystemShock]

Sure, it's a distinction, but my core point stands that authoritarianism is a human construct/trait, whether it's religion or the state or something else, any society or collective is going to have some sort of authoritative structure to keep that group intact. And it isn't even unique to humans. Animals often have a hierarchy or power structure in groups.

Sure, but there is a substantial difference between the authoritative structure of Sweden and the authoritative structure of Afghanistan. History tells us that, every time religion is involved in the authoritative structure, whether it is the State as religion, a ruler considered a god, or a supernatural god, there will be at the very least oppression of certain groups of people.

Anyway, back to the thread topic, interestingly enough, now Nikki Haley is siding with the woman in Texas. Curious choice.

Well, the thread topic is deeply linked to religion, so religion is very much part of the topic.

 

[DaveXA]

Sure, but there is a substantial difference between the authoritative structure of Sweden and the authoritative structure of Afghanistan. History tells us that, every time religion is involved in the authoritative structure, whether it is the State as religion, a ruler considered a god, or a supernatural god, there will be at the very least oppression of certain groups of people.

Yes, but people being people, religion or not, tend to screw things up. Even the best of us. Authoritarians are always made up of flawed people, certainly not always equally so, but those flaws will always surface sooner or later.

Well, the thread topic is deeply linked to religion, so religion is very much part of the topic.

Well, there's a religion section for that discussion. I'm more interested in discussing the politics and legal aspect.

 

[MT15]

I have zero doubt we will eventually find out that one of the conservative justices leaked the Dobbs decision. They should be impeached.

 

[SFIDC3]

I understand the miscommunication now. Please understand that I'm speaking my truth and not discounting or dismissing you or anyone else's truth.

My problem with almost every religion is that the gods of almost every religion are authoritarian in nature. I'm not saying the followers of the gods are authoritarian by nature, I'm saying the gods that they follow are authoritarian by nature.

I think it's illogical and unbelievable that any god would actually demand worship and subservience and dole out favors on a strictly transactional basis. And if there is an actual god or gods that are that way, they can pound sand as far as I'm concerned. That's just my truth and my beliefs. I don't give in to bullying and extortion, not even from a god.

My feeling exactly, and why I believe organized religion does way more harm than good...."God fearing man" is one of my most hated expressions, it's moronic....