Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (2 Viewers)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

When will they all quit lying about “abortion up until nine months”? Nobody with half a brain believes that. It’s such a stupid, deliberate lie.

its the go to scare tactic...

 

[SFIDC3]

When will they all quit lying about “abortion up until nine months”? Nobody with half a brain believes that. It’s such a stupid, deliberate lie.

Spicer is an absolute liar and a moron, I sure hope those brave baby saving, mother witch burning idiots go on the "offensive" re: abortion.....it's like they can't believe the voting public sees through their obvious lies....what those idiots are experiencing is what happens when your "agenda" affects voters lives directly....

 

[MT15]

This will be the new play, deny the voters their voice:

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

This will be the new play, deny the voters their voice:

We know what you want better than you do... isn't that it in a nutshell?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Could this lead to a rift in the evangelical community?

If so it couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch





Or a good night for personal choice

these idiots dont realize pretty much everyone uses abortions. hell I have heard stores from people that work at abortion clinics of woman coming in for an abortion an the next day right back in the antiabortion picket line.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

these idiots dont realize pretty much everyone uses abortions. hell I have heard stores from people that work at abortion clinics of woman coming in for an abortion an the next day right back in the antiabortion picket line.

i have a co worker who used to post stuff all the time about how bad abortions were, etc.
His ex wife got pegnant by some piece of crap she was with and she wanted to get one, and he agreed because he didn't want his daughter they had together to be tied to that guy. She had to go to Shreveport, so he drove her and paid for the hotel room. Since then, i haven't seen him make a post or comment on others about the issue. But the fact that he was quickly 100% ok with it while previously making some pretty bad comments about the issue.

 

[coldseat]

Could this lead to a rift in the evangelical community?

If so it couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch

It's funny how as soon as a white-evangelical Christian doesn't vote they way the right wing political class demands, they become "so-called".

"Free will" really means "Our will" or else you become "so-called" and are excommunicated.

 

[Optimus Prime]

these idiots dont realize pretty much everyone uses abortions. hell I have heard stores from people that work at abortion clinics of woman coming in for an abortion an the next day right back in the antiabortion picket line.

There’s articles way earlier in this thread about exactly this

Back on the picket line without a shred of shame or remorse (for being a hypocrite not getting the abortion)

But like do many things when it affects them personally “that’s different”

 

[coldseat]

This can go in several threads, but it tracks with the ongoing conversation in this thread. Sufficed to say, No, we aren't brainwashed.

===============

The GOP should consider that its opponents aren’t simply brainwashed​

That Ohio residents voted Tuesday to encode access to abortion in their state constitution should not have come as much of a surprise. There had been six previous statewide initiatives centered on that question since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, and each of the six had been successful, including in states redder than Ohio.

That it passed with 57 percent of the vote was also seemingly predicted by opponents of the measure itself, who tried to pass a new requirement this summer that any constitutional amendment would need 60 percent of support statewide to go into effect. Ohio’s Issue 1 landed right where opponents were apparently afraid it would.

Yet its passage triggered another response. No surprise, since that’s an inevitable reaction to political loss. Instead, it was the idea that somehow Ohio voters had been snookered, that the vote was not a function of the sincere belief that abortion should be accessible, but instead that voters had somehow been tricked.

This is a piece of a common, though obviously not universal, rhetorical line on the right: The left is acting not out of principle, but confusion. Republican losses aren’t because of opposition to the right’s policies, but because some nefarious force is changing people’s minds. It’s a neat trick that simultaneously absolves the right for pushing unpopular ideas and portrays their opponents as gullible sheep.

The most concise form of the propaganda argument in Ohio came from right-wing chatterbox Mark Levin. On social media, he wrote that “Republicans will continue to lose on the abortion issue because the Democrat[ic] Party and their surrogates spend [far] more on TV ads than the GOP spends on this issue, and the Democrats use those funds to lie about their true policy” — which he then proceeded to misrepresent. “The point,” he continued, “is people are voting on the propaganda they are being fed not the actual issue.”

Polling has repeatedly shown that most people in most states, including in red states, support abortion access. There is dispute about the conditions under which abortion should be acceptable, but there’s a consistent majority belief that it should be accessible under at least some conditions, which Issue 1 ensures without mandating that abortion be available whenever, wherever.

...........

This betrays a staggering misunderstanding of the issue. Women who support access to abortion — if I, yet another dude, might speak on their behalf — often center their support on having autonomy over their own bodies. This has been the subject of political and even philosophical arguments for decades. Yet it strikes Huckabee as more likely that women choosing to have abortions are doing so because they are being convinced to by someone else.

Again, this pattern appears elsewhere in right-wing rhetoric. It is taken as an article of faith, for example, that young people are being indoctrinated by liberal college professors to embrace left-wing policies and practices. When Elon Musk offered this up back in March, I looked at research on the subject that found no significant effect. (College professors, meanwhile, are probably startled to learn about their overwhelming influence on students who have to be cajoled to do the reading in the first place.) It seems more likely that the general liberalism of college students is a function of things like generally congregating in diverse urban centers and in shifts in political belief over time.

..................
==============================

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/09/abortion-republican-elections/

 

[DaveXA]

these idiots dont realize pretty much everyone uses abortions.

Weird claim. No one in my family, aunts, uncles, parents, grandparents have ever needed or gotten an abortion. So, not close to pretty much everyone.

It's something like 25% of women who get an abortion at some point in their lifetime.

hell I have heard stores from people that work at abortion clinics of woman coming in for an abortion an the next day right back in the antiabortion picket line.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Weird claim. No one in my family, aunts, uncles, parents, grandparents have ever needed or gotten an abortion. So, not close to pretty much everyone.

It's something like 25% of women who get an abortion at some point in their lifetime.

or they had one and did not tell anyone who knows? and does it matter? its not someone else's choice.

 

[DaveXA]

or they had one and did not tell anyone who knows? and does it matter? its not someone else's choice.

Well, I mean, accuracy should matter. And considering approximately 25-30% women have had an abortion at some point isn't anywhere near pretty much everyone when it's not even half of women.

 

[Lapaz]

When will they all quit lying about “abortion up until nine months”? Nobody with half a brain believes that. It’s such a stupid, deliberate lie.

The fact that they’ve losing everywhere abortion rights is on the ballot tells me that their lies aren’t working.

 

[Lapaz]

i have a co worker who used to post stuff all the time about how bad abortions were, etc.
His ex wife got pegnant by some piece of crap she was with and she wanted to get one, and he agreed because he didn't want his daughter they had together to be tied to that guy. She had to go to Shreveport, so he drove her and paid for the hotel room. Since then, i haven't seen him make a post or comment on others about the issue. But the fact that he was quickly 100% ok with it while previously making some pretty bad comments about the issue.

Republicans almost never have the capacity for empathy. They have to experience it themselves to understand.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Well, I mean, accuracy should matter. And considering approximately 25-30% women have had an abortion at some point isn't anywhere near pretty much everyone when it's not even half of women.

I didn't to say everyone has had abortions I said everyone has abortions. well only pregnant females but still.

 

[MT15]

Weird claim. No one in my family, aunts, uncles, parents, grandparents have ever needed or gotten an abortion. So, not close to pretty much everyone.

It's something like 25% of women who get an abortion at some point in their lifetime.

Tom Nichols thought the same thing until Roe was overturned and it was discussed. He found out that his aunt had needed an abortion decades ago. Nobody ever mentioned it after the fact, and he never knew. 25% is a pretty big number, when you think about it.

 

[DaveXA]

Tom Nichols thought the same thing until Roe was overturned and it was discussed. He found out that his aunt had needed an abortion decades ago. Nobody ever mentioned it after the fact, and he never knew. 25% is a pretty big number, when you think about it.

No doubt. Most don't go around advertising it, certainly. I've had numerous conversations with a pretty good number of women and known some who have gotten abortions. Generally, if you're in a family that is religious and has strong opinions about abortion, they're much less likely to share that they've had an abortion. It's definitely a sensitive issue and for some, the topic opens old wounds, so I've always tried to be cognizant of that when talking to them. Lots of grace and just acknowledging the difficult decisions made.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The whole post

Boldings mine

1. Ya think

2. Opposite of everything I've ever heard about off year voting
===========

For pro lifers, last night was a gut punch. No sugar coating it.

Giving up on the unborn is not an option. It's politically dumb and morally repugnant. Instead, we need to understand why we lost this battle so we can win the war.

I was very involved in the "no" campaign for issue 1, so let me share a few insights.

First, we got creamed among voters who disliked both Issue 1 and also Ohio's current law (heartbeat bill). We saw this consistently in polling and in conversations. "I don't like Issue 1, but I'd rather have that extreme than the other extreme." This is a political fact, not my opinion.

Second, we have to recognize how much voters mistrust us (meaning elected Republicans) on this issue.

Having an unplanned pregnancy is scary. Best case, you're looking at social scorn and thousands of dollars of unexpected medical bills. We need people to see us as the pro-life party, not just the anti-abortion party.

Third, as Donald Trump has said, "you've got to have the exceptions." I am as pro life as anyone, and I want to save as many babies as possible. This is not about moral legitimacy but political reality. I've seen dozens of good polls on the abortion question in the last few months, many of them done in Ohio. Give people a choice between abortion restrictions very early in pregnancy with exceptions, or the pro choice position, and the pro life view has a fighting chance. Give people a heartbeat bill with no exceptions and it loses 65-35. (The reason we didn't lose 65-35 last night is that some people who hate "no exceptions" restrictions will still refuse to vote for things like Issue 1).

Fourth, we've spent so much time winning a legal argument on abortion that we've fallen behind on the moral argument. I talked to so many decent people who voted yes on Issue 1, and their reasons varied. Some described themselves as "pro life" but hated the lack of a rape exception in Ohio law. Some were worried that Ohio law would prevent them from addressing an ectopic pregnancy, or a late term miscarriage. Some didn't understand the "viability" standard in Issue 1, and thought that of course you should be able to abort a "non-viable" pregnancy as that would be a danger to the mother. You can criticize the propaganda effort on the other side for lying to people about these issues or confusing the populace, but it suggests we have to do a much better job of persuasion. And I'm not just talking about 30 second TV commercials--I'm talking about sustained, years long efforts to show the heart of the pro life movement.

Fifth, money. We got outspent big time on Issue 1, and across the country. Republicans are almost always outspent by Democrats. Relatedly, Democrats are better at turning out in off year elections. The national party should be focused on two, and only two issues: how to juice turnout in off year elections and how to close the finance gap with Democrats. A lot of people put their heart and soul into this campaign. The local right to life organizations in Ohio, The Center for Christian Virtue, SBA, Governor Dewine, and so many others. I tip my hat to them.

A lot of people are celebrating right now, and I don't care about that. I do care about the fact that because we lost, many innocent children will never have a chance to live their dreams. There is something sociopathic about a political movement that tells young women (and men) that it is liberating to murder their own children.

So let's keep fighting for our country's children, and let's find a way to win.