Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed (Replaced by Amy Coney Barrett)(Now Abortion Discussion) (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Ugh... breaking news I DID NOT want to see.

ETA: Reported on CNN.

 

[Taurus]

I am prolife and I can not wait until the day that abortion is illegal but I am not big on the head hunter thing, if that is accurate. On a realist level, I also think certain exceptions should be made.

All that to be said, I will take a win when we can get a win.

Enjoy your Sharia-based theocracy.

The problem with both parties in a nutshell.

Republicans are like the Patriots. They'll happily lie, cheat, steal, destroy democracy itself, whatever it takes to get that win. Meanwhile, Democrats will let them.

 

[brandon]

Meanwhile, Democrats will let them.

He has me on ignore, so nothing I say really makes a difference.

But point well-taken.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Basically why Farb-o's 'I'm a libertarian' shtick is laughable. Taking a win where you can regardless of the costs = authoritarian. Lest there be any confusion as to why no one here should take him seriously or give him the due of a response.

 

[SystemShock]

I am prolife and I can not wait until the day that abortion is illegal but I am not big on the head hunter thing, if that is accurate. On a realist level, I also think certain exceptions should be made.

All that to be said, I will take a win when we can get a win.

I cannot wait for the rapture either

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

The raptor is upon us.

 

[Saintman2884]

The injunction would have merely maintained the status quo so I don't see any downside if the Court were indeed going to uphold Roe. Keep in mind, there is a way the conservatives can frame the argument to distance it from a 'God wills it!' perspective. They will simply say there is no right to abortion specified in the Constitution and that there is basically no such thing as Substantive Due Process and call it a day.

Conservatives have the 'advantage' in that most of the rights they care about, e.g., guns and hyper-religiosity, are codified in the Constitution. A lot of rights that liberals espouse come from the more malleable concept of Substantive Due Process. This unfortunate reality is why I disdain that this country still adheres to a Constitution drafted in the 18th Century with what are now near-impossible-to-meet requirements for its amendment. Whereas most every other western nation has more modern constitutions that codify rights you would think would be a matter of common sense (to those who aren't fanatics).

When it comes to gun control and even due process like getting a warrant to search a building, arrest or detain someone for questioning related to a possible crime or more solidly codified concepts of habeas corpus that exists in French penal system(and other EU countries), its not entirely as progressive-minded or rational always in terms of laws or statutes in more modern European constitutions than ours here.

 

[Taurus]

He has me on ignore, so nothing I say really makes a difference.

But point well-taken.

Yeah, I love me some Michelle, but that "When they go low, we go high" schtick was a mispronunciation of "When they go low, we let them and lose!"

If the attitudes were reversed, the Covid relief bill would've had $2,000 in it like the President said, not $1,600 to bring it up to $2k, the infrastructure bill would be signed already, along with voting rights (with penalties for violators!) and abortion wouldn't just be legal, it'd be covered under the universal healthcare plan passed in April.
McConnell and Manchin would be afraid to leave the house; Trump, Gaetz, MTG and every single 1/6 collaborator would be in prison awaiting trial or buried in an unmarked grave after being shot for treason. These things would've been accomplished via normal means, dirty tricks, propaganda, lies, blackmail, or outright violence, whatever it took.

Democrats have a raft of things they want to get done but lack the spine and cohesion to accomplish them while Republicans have maybe three things (tax cuts for the rich, ever-expanding military and oppression of 'others') which they'll stop at nothing to achieve.

I completely understand that tribal, atavistic desire to be on the 'winning' side. Especially for a white Christian who'll never suffer under Republitaliban rule.

If you were picking from zero, who wouldn't rather root for the lowlife-but-champion Patriots over the honorable-but-hapless Cardinals?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Democrats have a raft of things they want to get done but lack the spine and cohesion to accomplish them while Republicans have maybe three things (tax cuts for the rich, ever-expanding military and oppression of 'others') which they'll stop at nothing to achieve.

speak of the devil

just posted this in another thread
===============

…….We’re seeing what a profound difference there is in how Democrats and Republicans view power.

When Democrats have it, they’re often apologetic, uncertain and hesitant to use it any way that anyone might object to.

Republicans, on the other hand, will squeeze it and stretch it as far as they can. They aren’t reluctant, and they aren’t afraid of a backlash. Whatever they can do, they will do.

Think of how the two parties react when presented with an obstacle to getting what they want.

Democrats often issue statements of regret: We’d like to move forward, but what can we do? This is how democracy works.


Republicans, on the other hand, react to obstacles by getting creative. They search for loopholes, they engineer procedural workarounds, they devise innovative ways to seize and wield control.

When they come up with an idea and someone says, “That’s madness — no one has ever dared try something like that before,” they know they’re on the right track…..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/03/harsh-truth-this-moment-republicans-understand-power-democrats-do-not/

 

[coldseat]

I really feel like Democrats should split into two groups. Give up the Democrat big hat and just separate into Progressives and Moderates. It might really hurt them in the short run, but I think each group not having to apologize for the other or always "work with the other side" will be better in the long run. It will also allow each side to be more true to themselves and give the nation better choices. It may also further marginalize the Republicans as the less extreme in their ranks join the Moderates and stop constantly switching sides in elections. And it gives us another presidential choice.

Idk, just an idea.

 

[Farb]

The problem with both parties in a nutshell.

Republicans are like the Patriots. They'll happily lie, cheat, steal, destroy democracy itself, whatever it takes to get that win. Meanwhile, Democrats will let them.

I would completely flop those, but I agree with the sentiment. It is one big dance and we are idiots watching and enjoying it.

 

[Farb]

Basically why Farb-o's 'I'm a libertarian' shtick is laughable. Taking a win where you can regardless of the costs = authoritarian. Lest there be any confusion as to why no one here should take him seriously or give him the due of a response.

Words hurt man, and I have feeling too.

Just kidding, I don't have feelings and words don't really hurt at all, they are words after all but they do seem to get under your saddle a bit. Sorry about that but that ignore feature is there for a reason, maybe use it? And one has to consider to where those word originated so thanks. Carry on your crusade to save a message board from people that might have different thoughts. Very noble cause indeed.

 

[Farb]

You also have to believe that Woman do not posses the agency, to decide for their own well being whether or not they should carry and unintended pregnancy to birth, even before the viability of the fetus, and that they should be treated as "host bodies".
.

Why do we have to pretend women can't think for themselves before jumping in the sack with a guy but once she is pregnant, she is the agency to prevent a life from forming? If she is not in a position to have child, there are lots of free birth control options available. 1 is 100% free and 100% effective.
They are a host body, that is what being pregnant means. They are the ones that have all the humans.

They, with your support and encouragement, care so much about achieving this objective that they will go to any lengths to see it through. The will corrupt and hijack the SC so that they can pack the court with the Christian Rights Justices, check! They will pass every manner of abortion restriction in every state they can and constantly challenge the validity of the expanded personal protection for women and has stood for 40 years costing billions of tax payer dollars to be spent, check! They will enable vigilante justice by granting activist the legal right to harass women and clinics and anybody that may aid them, thereby making abortion illegal and unleashing constitutional chaos, check! Nothing is to extreme, a perfect encapsulation of where the Republican party is at. Congratulations on your victory.

I agree, we are very passionate about protecting life. As a male, that is kind of my hardwired objective, despite how masculinity is considered 'toxic' today. One of the main reasons I voted for the Trumpster is because of that.
I don't think authoritarianism is letting the states decided laws themselves without federal government overreach, but I know you guys love the big Federal government forcing its morals on the entire country.

As stated, not a huge fan of the part of tattling on people but that is for Texas to figure out. I would have voted 'no go' for that part if I am reading it right.

The federal government has created plenty of laws like Roe, that were horribly decided cases that remained the law of the land for a period of time until it wasn't. I hope and pray that is on the table for Roe and the states can do as they wish in regards to abortion.

 

[DaveXA]

Words hurt man, and I have feeling too.

Just kidding, I don't have feelings and words don't really hurt at all, they are words after all but they do seem to get under your saddle a bit. Sorry about that but that ignore feature is there for a reason, maybe use it? And one has to consider to where those word originated so thanks. Carry on your crusade to save a message board from people that might have different thoughts. Very noble cause indeed.

I don't think the issue is as much with the word as with the claim to being something you're clearly not. Either we have different definitions of libertarian, or you're using it wrong.

It feels more like it's not a good faith effort at the meeting of the minds we're supposedly having here.

 

[zztop]

I really feel like Democrats should split into two groups. Give up the Democrat big hat and just separate into Progressives and Moderates. It might really hurt them in the short run, but I think each group not having to apologize for the other or always "work with the other side" will be better in the long run. It will also allow each side to be more true to themselves and give the nation better choices. It may also further marginalize the Republicans as the less extreme in their ranks join the Moderates and stop constantly switching sides in elections. And it gives us another presidential choice.

Idk, just an idea.

It could work if ranked choice voting was established nation-wide

 

[SystemShock]

They are the ones that have all the humans.

Shouldn't they have all the power over all the humans who come out of them, then?

They are a host body, that is what being pregnant means.

... and they host a parasite.

 

[SystemShock]

Enjoy your Sharia-based theocracy.

We joke about y'all quaeda, vanilla ISIS, the American Taliban, etc., but the reality is, sharia law is based on the interpretation of the original Abrahamic texts. If you wrote down sharia in plain English and pass it around evangelicals, I'm very sure you'll get a lot of acceptance.

 

[JRad]

Words hurt man, and I have feeling too.

Just kidding, I don't have feelings and words don't really hurt at all, they are words after all but they do seem to get under your saddle a bit. Sorry about that but that ignore feature is there for a reason, maybe use it? And one has to consider to where those word originated so thanks. Carry on your crusade to save a message board from people that might have different thoughts. Very noble cause indeed.

Yet you still had to post a reply.

 

[coldseat]

Why do we have to pretend women can't think for themselves before jumping in the sack with a guy but once she is pregnant, she is the agency to prevent a life from forming? If she is not in a position to have child, there are lots of free birth control options available. 1 is 100% free and 100% effective.
They are a host body, that is what being pregnant means. They are the ones that have all the humans.

We don't. Women make decisions everyday to not sleep with men and not get pregnant. It's just their agency doesn't suddenly end when they get pregnant and they suddenly become incubators (i.e. "host bodies") for the State. So you need a better reason than that to not give them the right to control their own bodies and future when they become pregnant. Which gets back to the part of my response that you ignored.

I agree, we are very passionate about protecting life. As a male, that is kind of my hardwired objective, despite how masculinity is considered 'toxic' today. One of the main reasons I voted for the Trumpster is because of that.

The reason you feel that way is because you believe the fight against abortion is a spiritual battle against the Satan and the forces of hell. That it's God himself who has passed down this edict to fight against abortion. That those that support abortion rights (Democrats) are doing the work of the Devil. I know because I heard those messages constantly at Catholic Church and from Christian sources. That seems normal to you but that belief leads to extremism. Because all of that is in the service or carrying out God's will and saving the soul of America, there is no such thing as going too far. It's doesn't matter how far you have to twist the law or the danger this puts women in because your side is just. This doesn't just impact the abortion debate but all of our current politics, because Dems aren't the opposite political party, they're the executors of Satan's will in America to a true believer. We saw what that produced on Jan 6th.

I don't think authoritarianism is letting the states decided laws themselves without federal government overreach, but I know you guys love the big Federal government forcing its morals on the entire country.

As stated, not a huge fan of the part of tattling on people but that is for Texas to figure out. I would have voted 'no go' for that part if I am reading it right.

The federal government has created plenty of laws like Roe, that were horribly decided cases that remained the law of the land for a period of time until it wasn't. I hope and pray that is on the table for Roe and the states can do as they wish in regards to abortion.

It's ridiculous to me that something as fundamentally important as a Women's bodily autonomy or what is considered a life in the womb would vary depending on what state you're in. That's as ridiculous as saying that it should be okay for slavery to exist in one state and not in others because the voters of that state want it.