Republican Assault on Public Education (1 Viewer)

[MT15]

This probably needs its own thread. It ties in with a lot of different R culture wars: Attacks on universities, attacks on CRT and “woke”. Classifying teachers and librarians as “groomers”. Pushing vouchers to send tax money to private, often religious, schools. Betsy DeVos was an advocate for all these policies that will weaken public education, and there are several billionaires who also want to dismantle public education. Public education may have its faults, but it is responsible for an amazing amount of upward mobility. Kids from poor areas can still get a college prep education in a public school.

Vouchers (sometimes disguised as “school choice”) are a particular peeve of mine. Public money is diverted from poor schools to wealthy private schools, which aren’t required to offer accommodations for special needs or challenged students. Families with special needs kids are left out. Rural areas often suffer disproportionately because there are no private schools to attend, but their public schools still see the reduction in funding. Often the families who take advantage of the voucher money are upper class and the private schools simply raise tuition knowing the families are getting taxpayer money now.

Greg Abbot is being particularly vile in this area. No surprise. Voters will have to make a statement about public education. If we want to halt the growing divide in this country between the “haves” and “have-nots”, we need to pay attention to public education.

 

[SFIDC3]

“Educational Inequality in Montgomery County Public Schools

• Written by Jeffrey W. from Gaithersburg Published to the Sentinel with permission.
• Sep 16, 2023 Updated Jan 8, 2024”

Educational Inequality in Montgomery County Public Schools

As one of the wealthiest and largest counties in the nation, Montgomery County and its school system, Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS), serve over 160,000 students and their families. Chartered

www.thesentinel.com

Yes, no county school system is perfect, just like any organization they all have their faults.....and yes, a student's socio-economic backgrounds are a factor.....

But public schools can work better for everyone if they are funded adequately and parents are engaged (the squeaky wheel, etc).....the only thing an only private (strictly for profit), religious school (throw in some indoctrination) environment does is ensure only mostly the uber wealthy get quality educations and all the other kids fall by the wayside which is exactly what the R party wants......"Trade schools for all the others!!!!!!"

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[Sendai]

Yes, no county school system is perfect, just like any organization they all have their faults.....and yes, a student's socio-economic backgrounds are a factor.....

But public schools can work better for everyone if they are funded adequately and parents are engaged (the squeaky wheel, etc).....the only thing an only private (strictly for profit), religious school (throw in some indoctrination) environment does is ensure only mostly the uber wealthy get quality educations and all the other kids fall by the wayside which is exactly what the R party wants......"Trade schools for all the others!!!!!!"

European Vocational Education Training is a very effective approach to secondary education. Gets the less academically inclined into solid work environments and gets them out the tests where they compare a country’s educational effectiveness. So Trade School is a good thing.

I’ve been working with a wide range of catholic, Christian, and nondenominational private schools since college. I’ve witnessed first rate educational outcomes for a wide range of socioeconomic students. And the families are far from uber wealthy. The uber wealthy are an infinitesimal group. Hardly measurable in the education landscape.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

European Vocational Education Training is a very effective approach to secondary education. Gets the less academically inclined into solid work environments and gets them out the tests where they compare a country’s educational effectiveness. So Trade School is a good thing.

I’ve been working with a wide range of catholic, Christian, and nondenominational private schools since college. I’ve witnessed first rate educational outcomes for a wide range of socioeconomic students. And the families are far from uber wealthy. The uber wealthy are an infinitesimal group. Hardly measurable in the education landscape.

You keep mentioning these schools you work with or are in your area as a way of rebutting people here, yet you never mention them by name. Why not?

 

[Dragon]

European Vocational Education Training is a very effective approach to secondary education. Gets the less academically inclined into solid work environments and gets them out the tests where they compare a country’s educational effectiveness. So Trade School is a good thing.

I’ve been working with a wide range of catholic, Christian, and nondenominational private schools since college. I’ve witnessed first rate educational outcomes for a wide range of socioeconomic students. And the families are far from uber wealthy. The uber wealthy are an infinitesimal group. Hardly measurable in the education landscape.

Let’s clear a few things up.

First, European vocational education and training (VET) is not a dumping ground for the “less academically inclined.” That’s a tired and condescending narrative. Students in these programs study the same core subjects — math, science, languages — and are held to high standards. In many countries, a vocational education doesn’t just qualify you for college or university, it can actually give you an edge in fields like engineering, computer science, nursing, or agriculture. Why? Because these students come in with real-world experience and practical know-how that purely academic tracks often don’t provide.


Now, about that comment on “getting them out of the tests where they compare a country’s educational effectiveness” — that’s frankly insulting. It suggests that vocational students are somehow an embarrassment, something to be removed from the stats so the country can look smarter on paper. That’s not just inaccurate — it’s fraudulent and degrading.


These students are part of the system. They work hard, they learn valuable skills, and they absolutely count. Pretending otherwise isn’t just bad policy — it’s elitist gatekeeping disguised as educational concern. Trade schools aren’t a way to hide weaknesses — they’re a strength. And if anything, we should be learning from their success, not erasing them from the scoreboard.

 

[SFIDC3]

European Vocational Education Training is a very effective approach to secondary education. Gets the less academically inclined into solid work environments and gets them out the tests where they compare a country’s educational effectiveness. So Trade School is a good thing.

I’ve been working with a wide range of catholic, Christian, and nondenominational private schools since college. I’ve witnessed first rate educational outcomes for a wide range of socioeconomic students. And the families are far from uber wealthy. The uber wealthy are an infinitesimal group. Hardly measurable in the education landscape.

Yeah, I'll take Dragon's word for it over yours every day of the week.....

And, like mine, though you fail to mention it, your post above is anecdotal.....

 

[brandon]

Yes, schools frequently take field trips to Disneyland and Walt Disney World. Disney offers educational opportunities and specially priced tickets for student groups. These trips can be part of a curriculum, a reward for academic achievement, or a fun way to celebrate a school event.

Here's a more detailed look:

• Educational Opportunities:
  .
  Disney Imagination Campus offers workshops and tours that connect learning with the parks, including options for middle, junior high, and high school students.
  
  
• Group Discounts:
  .
  Specially priced tickets are available for student groups of 10 or more, ages 3-22.
  
  
• Disney Imagination Campus:
  .
  This program provides resources and support for planning field trips, including workshop options and park reservation assistance.
  
  
• Beyond Entertainment:
  .
  Disney field trips can provide opportunities to explore various subjects like physics, engineering, and storytelling.
  
  
• Curriculum Integration:
  .
  Schools can integrate Disney visits into their curriculum, making learning more engaging and memorable.
• 
  
• 
  My son and I toured the Disney aquaculture system. Incredibly educational.

I’m late to this, but I’m a former educator who took three bands at 2 districts to WDW (among other field trips, as well.)

We took advantage of the educational opportunities, which are many.

At no point did we ever use a single taxpayer dollar to fund these trips. And I never knew any other band that went on such a significant trip that did so.

 

[Dragon]

A very good blogpost on several points that has been mentioned in this thread

Missouri is also ranked 49th in educational funding — that is the money the state sends to public schools, but we are headed for dead last if our new Republican Governor and some of the folks he appointed to the new “School Funding Modernization Task Force” have any say in the matter.

You’ll not be surprised to know that not one teacher was selected to be on the 16-member task force. When I called Gov Mike Kehoe’s office and asked why there is not a teacher on the task force, Mary, who answered at the Governor’s office, said she wasn’t sure and would get back to me.

But why?

To curate failure — to say that public schools are broken and public school teachers are inept all in a push to privatize public schools. To dumb down the populace. To demonize a system that educates over 90% of kids in this state. To send taxpayer money to grifters who will line their pockets while opening the fly-by-night private schools operating out of the old Pizza Hut buildings dotting the heartland.

It’s a scam. It’s always been a scam.

I will never forget Trump’s quote from 2016: “I love the poorly educated.”

https://jesspiper.substack.com/p/they-want-missouri-education-policies

 

[Sendai]

Let’s clear a few things up.

First, European vocational education and training (VET) is not a dumping ground for the “less academically inclined.” That’s a tired and condescending narrative. Students in these programs study the same core subjects — math, science, languages — and are held to high standards. In many countries, a vocational education doesn’t just qualify you for college or university, it can actually give you an edge in fields like engineering, computer science, nursing, or agriculture. Why? Because these students come in with real-world experience and practical know-how that purely academic tracks often don’t provide.


Now, about that comment on “getting them out of the tests where they compare a country’s educational effectiveness” — that’s frankly insulting. It suggests that vocational students are somehow an embarrassment, something to be removed from the stats so the country can look smarter on paper. That’s not just inaccurate — it’s fraudulent and degrading.


These students are part of the system. They work hard, they learn valuable skills, and they absolutely count. Pretending otherwise isn’t just bad policy — it’s elitist gatekeeping disguised as educational concern. Trade schools aren’t a way to hide weaknesses — they’re a strength. And if anything, we should be learning from their success, not erasing them from the scoreboard.

Well, “European Vocational Education Training is a very effective approach to secondary education” is hardly an insult. Wish we had programs like it. And yes, when it comes to testing only the European kids off to university are participating. Not the same here. In fact the 4 local village systems where I live, where 95-98% of the students go on to university, would crush those tests, yet, have never been participants.

 

[Dragon]

Well, “European Vocational Education Training is a very effective approach to secondary education” is hardly an insult. Wish we had programs like it. And yes, when it comes to testing only the European kids off to university are participating. Not the same here. In fact the 4 local village systems where I live, where 95-98% of the students go on to university, would crush those tests, yet, have never been participants.

Where are your source for "Only European kids off to university" are participating ? That is some kind of claim given the many roads to university that we have here ?

 

[Optimus Prime]

FERRIDAY, La. (AP) — Even at a glance, the differences are obvious. The walls of Ferriday High School are old and worn, surrounded by barbed wire. Just a few miles away, Vidalia High School is clean and bright, with a new library and a crisp blue “V” painted on orange brick.

Ferriday High is 90% Black. Vidalia High is 62% white.

For Black families, the contrast between the schools suggests “we’re not supposed to have the finer things,” said Brian Davis, a father in Ferriday. “It’s almost like our kids don’t deserve it,” he said.

The schools are part of Concordia Parish, which was ordered to desegregate 60 years ago and remains under a court-ordered plan to this day. Yet there’s growing momentum to release the district — and dozens of others — from decades-old orders that some call obsolete.

In a remarkable reversal, the Justice Department said it plans to start unwinding court-ordered desegregation plans dating to the Civil Rights Movement. Officials started in April, when they lifted a 1960s order in Louisiana’s Plaquemines Parish. Harmeet Dhillon, who leads the department’s civil rights division, has said others will “bite the dust.”

It comes amid pressure from Republican Gov. Jeff Landry and his attorney general, who have called for all the state’s remaining orders to be lifted. They describe the orders as burdens on districts and relics of a time when Black students were still forbidden from some schools.

The orders were always meant to be temporary — school systems can be released if they demonstrate they fully eradicated segregation. Decades later, that goal remains elusive, with stark racial imbalances persisting in many districts.

Civil rights groups say the orders are important to keep as tools to address the legacy of forced segregation — including disparities in student discipline, academic programs and teacher hiring. They point to cases like Concordia, where the decades-old order was used to stop a charter school from favoring white students in admissions...................

Trump officials are vowing to end school desegregation orders. Some parents say they're still needed

Six decades after the federal government ordered Concordia Parish to desegregate its schools, the district remains racially divided.

apnews.com

 

[Sendai]

Where are your source for "Only European kids off to university" are participating ? That is some kind of claim given the many roads to university that we have here ?

PISA doesn’t test vocational and trade schools. Odds are most of the students at the selected schools are university quality.

 

[Dragon]

PISA doesn’t test vocational and trade schools. Odds are most of the students at the selected schools are university quality.

That is incorrect.

"The PISA test (Programme for International Student Assessment) is a global standardized assessment run by the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development). It evaluates education systems worldwide by testing the skills and knowledge of 15-year-old students."

It is only decided by age and in Denmark the students are randomly selected.

For fun I looked for a comparison between Denmark and the US and this is what I found

United States vs Denmark – PISA 2022 Scores​

Subject	United States	Denmark	OECD Average
Reading	504	507	476
Math	465	487	472
Science	499	493	485

With these comments;

• Reading: Denmark slightly outperforms the U.S. and is well above the OECD average.
• Math: Both countries are above the average, but Denmark scores notably higher than the U.S.
• Science: The U.S. narrowly beats Denmark, both still performing above the OECD average.

• Equity: Denmark generally shows less variation between schools and more educational equity.
• Top performers: The U.S. has a larger proportion of top performers in science; Denmark does better at lifting low performers in reading and math.
• Policy influence: Denmark’s vocational and mixed education paths don’t seem to hurt performance—in fact, PISA shows they enhance equity without sacrificing results.

These are data pulled from PISA

Another major difference is that the danish educational system prioritizes team work and we have no school "rankings" based on grades. Being able to work succesfully in teams are more important than being a strong "soloist".

 

[wardorican]

I’m late to this, but I’m a former educator who took three bands at 2 districts to WDW (among other field trips, as well.)

We took advantage of the educational opportunities, which are many.

At no point did we ever use a single taxpayer dollar to fund these trips. And I never knew any other band that went on such a significant trip that did so.

We sold 4 years worth of chocolate to go.