Republican Assault on Public Education (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

This probably needs its own thread. It ties in with a lot of different R culture wars: Attacks on universities, attacks on CRT and “woke”. Classifying teachers and librarians as “groomers”. Pushing vouchers to send tax money to private, often religious, schools. Betsy DeVos was an advocate for all these policies that will weaken public education, and there are several billionaires who also want to dismantle public education. Public education may have its faults, but it is responsible for an amazing amount of upward mobility. Kids from poor areas can still get a college prep education in a public school.

Vouchers (sometimes disguised as “school choice”) are a particular peeve of mine. Public money is diverted from poor schools to wealthy private schools, which aren’t required to offer accommodations for special needs or challenged students. Families with special needs kids are left out. Rural areas often suffer disproportionately because there are no private schools to attend, but their public schools still see the reduction in funding. Often the families who take advantage of the voucher money are upper class and the private schools simply raise tuition knowing the families are getting taxpayer money now.

Greg Abbot is being particularly vile in this area. No surprise. Voters will have to make a statement about public education. If we want to halt the growing divide in this country between the “haves” and “have-nots”, we need to pay attention to public education.

 

[fooferdoggie]

The argument is so simple. Republicans have never been keen on education. That's undisputed. So if they want vouchers, it can't be to improve education, saying it is you is just lying to yourself.

 

[TampaJoe]

I wouldn’t have as much of a problem maybe. But I still wouldn’t like it. Public money is for public schools.

If these state legislatures had linked school vouchers with additional oversight of these schools, requirements that they take special needs kids, regulations on faculty qualifications, that would have been better.

School vouchers don’t lead to more kids being able to attend private schools, not in any significant number. That’s how they sell the idea. It’s not how it works in practice. Especially when the schools take the passage of vouchers as an opportunity to raise tuition. IIRC, the average voucher is about $8k, which is less than half the average tuition to a private school. Poor kids are left out. Rural kids are left out. Kids with special needs are left out.

From this (emphasis mine):

How vouchers harm public schools: Calculating the cost of voucher programs to public school districts

Overview What this report is about Voucher programs for schools are rapidly expanding across the country. Under these programs, public budgets provide funding to parents to either send their children to private school or homeschool them. These programs’ growing popularity raises the question of...

www.epi.org

“While additional costs to provide quality education are not a problem in itself, (and we at EPI are huge advocates of increasing funding for public schools), study after study has found that voucher programs do not improve student achievement and, hence, are not a cost-effective way to spend any additional dollars that states or localities are willing to commit to K–12 education. In three states that enacted voucher programs —Louisiana, Indiana, and Ohio, researchers assessed student test scores in periods following program enactment and found that academic performance worsened.2

Students in Louisiana’s Scholarship voucher program experienced declining achievement in both language arts and mathematics during their first two years in the program (Mills and Wolf 2023). Similarly, Waddington and Berends (2018) found that voucher students in the Indiana Choice Scholarship voucher program experienced declining achievement in mathematics one year after attending private school. Under the Ed Choice Program in Ohio, voucher students who previously attended high-performing public schools performed worse than they would have had they remained in public school (Figlio and Karbownick 2016).

Instead of boosting student achievement in equitable and cost-effective ways, voucher programs generally end up putting large new demands on state and local budgets and increase the cost of educating students who remain in public school. In Arizona for example, where 75% of voucher program users are already in private school (SOS 2024), legislators grossly underestimated the cost of voucher programs—by tenfold. The voucher program was initially projected to cost $65 million in 2023 but actually cost upwards of $708 million. Because of these overruns, Arizona’s voucher policy is now leading to a state budget crisis (Hager 2024).”

Also:
There are 11 states with essentially no means tests. Meaning the vast majority of the kids in that state qualify for vouchers. It’s not a majority but it’s not rare. And guess which way the trend is going? Oh, and shocker, AZ is one of them.

Just because that is how things are today in some areas does not mean we can’t figure out how to make it work. And isn’t public money for education? Isn’t education the mission. If in some areas public schools aren’t delivering better outcomes, shouldn’t we offer alternatives for those that want them? I’m not for a solution that is focusing on maintaining a public bureaucracy that isn’t working. The mission is education. Let’s focus on that. How that is delivered isn’t the number 1 priority.

And I’m not opposed to increased funding. But it needs to be driven by results. I don’t see that the current system is results driven. It appears to me the primary focus of public education is preserving public schools. Education is secondary. I could be wrong. But 30 years ago our education system k-12 was the best in the world. Today, not so much.

Our future depends on the education and quality of our workforce. The whole idea of equality and equity are dependent on education. We can’t lead the world if we don’t lead with this.

 

[MT15]

Just because that is how things are today in some areas does not mean we can’t figure out how to make it work. And isn’t public money for education? Isn’t education the mission. If in some areas public schools aren’t delivering better outcomes, shouldn’t we offer alternatives for those that want them? I’m not for a solution that is focusing on maintaining a public bureaucracy that isn’t working. The mission is education. Let’s focus on that. How that is delivered isn’t the number 1 priority.

And I’m not opposed to increased funding. But it needs to be driven by results. I don’t see that the current system is results driven. It appears to me the primary focus of public education is preserving public schools. Education is secondary. I could be wrong. But 30 years ago our education system k-12 was the best in the world. Today, not so much.

Our future depends on the education and quality of our workforce. The whole idea of equality and equity are dependent on education. We can’t lead the world if we don’t lead with this.

You are absolutely right about the bolded statement above. I couldn’t agree more.

Here’s the thing, though, study after study show that the clearest (best) indicator of a student’s performance is socioeconomic status. Let me pose a question to you:

Isn’t it quite possible that the financial erosion experienced by the working and lower middle class over the past 30-40 years could have something to do with declining student achievement?

When my husband went in to get his Social Security calculated a few years ago, we found out that his actual best earning years were in his 20s-30s (he worked in the trades). That ever since then his wages hadn’t kept up with inflation. We found that out because they calculate how much you’ll get based on your best earning years after adjustment for inflation. We were both somewhat shocked and surprised.

Schools can only do so much. Add to that the way schools in certain areas have been historically underfunded and now they are having what little funding they get stripped away to be given to fat cat private schools. It seems a bit like victim blaming to me.

Public schools have been set up to fail by the policies instituted in many states. And now that trend is accelerating. We are eventually going to create a permanent underclass who don’t have access to a decent education. It will get worse and worse. It’s a troubling trend.

 

[Frazier Ducrane]

Trump cannot proceed with gutting US Education Department, court rules

DOJ had asked for a swift ruling from the 1st Circuit US Court of Appeals so that it could promptly take the case up to the Supreme Court if it lost.

www.usatoday.com

 

[RobF]

“
The phrase "studies say" can sometimes be misleading because it can imply a certainty about scientific findings that may not be accurate. While research is valuable, it's important to remember that studies are not always conclusive and may have limitations or biases. Furthermore, different studies can reach different conclusions on the same topic, and the media may not always present the full picture.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Study Limitations:
  Studies often have specific populations, sample sizes, or methods that may limit their generalizability. For example, a study on one group of people may not apply to another group with different characteristics.
  
  
• Peer Review and Bias:
  While peer review is a crucial process in scientific publishing, it's not perfect. Peer review bias can occur where evaluators are not impartial, and studies may still be published with flaws.
  
  
• Media Presentation:
  The media often simplifies complex research findings, potentially leading to oversimplified or misleading conclusions.
  
  
• Confirmation Bias:
  People are prone to confirmation bias, where they seek out information that confirms their existing beliefs, even if the evidence is weak.

In short: While research is important, it's crucial to be skeptical of claims made based solely on "studies say" and to consider the potential limitations and biases associated with any study. ”

Now ask ChatGPT about the comparative merits of completely unverifiable anecdotes.

Go on. "Should I dismiss the findings of research on the basis of completely unverifiable anecdotes?" Ask it.

What a clown show. Get over yourself and realise your personal anecdotes, that you refuse to provide any actual verifiable information for, are completely and utterly worthless to anyone else. Give actual citations or specifics, or give it a rest.

 

[TampaJoe]

You are absolutely right about the bolded statement above. I couldn’t agree more.

Here’s the thing, though, study after study show that the clearest (best) indicator of a student’s performance is socioeconomic status. Let me pose a question to you:

Isn’t it quite possible that the financial erosion experienced by the working and lower middle class over the past 30-40 years could have something to do with declining student achievement?

When my husband went in to get his Social Security calculated a few years ago, we found out that his actual best earning years were in his 20s-30s (he worked in the trades). That ever since then his wages hadn’t kept up with inflation. We found that out because they calculate how much you’ll get based on your best earning years after adjustment for inflation. We were both somewhat shocked and surprised.

Schools can only do so much. Add to that the way schools in certain areas have been historically underfunded and now they are having what little funding they get stripped away to be given to fat cat private schools. It seems a bit like victim blaming to me.

Public schools have been set up to fail by the policies instituted in many states. And now that trend is accelerating. We are eventually going to create a permanent underclass who don’t have access to a decent education. It will get worse and worse. It’s a troubling trend.

I don’t dispute that kids in lower income neighborhoods often face more challenges than kids in more affluent neighborhoods for a number of reasons. That is precisely why I am pointing out that we need to focus on those kids in those neighborhoods and provide a solution for those kids and parent that want something more and are willing to work for it. If a child that is capable and willing is stuck in an inner city school that is underperforming and has been under performing for years, that is a loss. That’s a failure of the system and the whole idea of public education. Bottomline. We have public schools that fit that description that have failed their mission for decades. I find it unconscionable that we tell those kids and parents in those neighborhoods to wait another 10 or 20 years. Give them an exit ramp if they want it. I am not worried about rich kids. I’m not interested in funding a solution for them. It is not the highest best use of those dollars.

I also don’t understand the logic behind ending AP courses in public schools for kids that are capable and willing to work at that level. That makes no sense to me to hold back on a kid that is capable and willing to work at a higher level.

If education is important to us then we should treat it as such. We should not continue to fund solutions that don’t work or are underperforming simply because they are the public option. Failure is failure be it public or private. The student suffers no matter what.

 

[SFIDC3]

Let me preface this by saying it is totally anecdotal....I lived in polar opposite environments when it comes to education....grew up in Metairie and despite numerous attempts to get kicked out, actually graduated from a Catholic HS (hated it).....

And while you could get a good to decent education in the public schools, I've always believed they were woefully underfunded due to lack of local taxes/funding....and the overall quality of education suffered.....

Shortly after college I moved to Montgomery County MD, polar opposite re: public education and local taxes......Yes, the local taxes (property, local county piggyback of 3%) were high, no question.....but the public school system was infinitely better than Jefferson Parish.....many of Montgomery county public schools at every level are as good or better than private religious schools.....

My simple conclusion supports the notion that education is only as good as it has healthy, consistent funding.....quality public education is possible anywhere but folks have to sacrifice to fund it.....to me it was a very acceptable trade off, instead of paying thousands to a private school, I'm paying that money in taxes (actually much less in the end) to fund quality public schools that benefit everyone in the county.....

One side of the aisle knows that public education can work well if sacrifices are made, the other side wants to privatize education that pretty much would ensure that mostly the folks better off would benefit with a healthy dose of religious indoctrination to boot (which makes me ill - it's dishonest and evil to the core).....

 

[UriUT]

Let me preface this by saying it is totally anecdotal....I lived in polar opposite environments when it comes to education....grew up in Metairie and despite numerous attempts to get kicked out, actually graduated from a Catholic HS (hated it).....

And while you could get a good to decent education in the public schools, I've always believed they were woefully underfunded due to lack of local taxes/funding....and the overall quality of education suffered.....

Shortly after college I moved to Montgomery County MD, polar opposite re: public education and local taxes......Yes, the local taxes (property, local county piggyback of 3%) were high, no question.....but the public school system was infinitely better than Jefferson Parish.....many of Montgomery county public schools at every level are as good or better than private religious schools.....

My simple conclusion supports the notion that education is only as good as it has healthy, consistent funding.....quality public education is possible anywhere but folks have to sacrifice to fund it.....to me it was a very acceptable trade off, instead of paying thousands to a private school, I'm paying that money in taxes (actually much less in the end) to fund quality public schools that benefit everyone in the county.....

One side of the aisle knows that public education can work well if sacrifices are made, the other side wants to privatize education that pretty much would ensure that mostly the folks better off would benefit with a healthy dose of religious indoctrination to boot (which makes me ill - it's dishonest and evil to the core).....

Public School Rankings by State 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

	State	Overall Public School Rank 2024↑	K-12 Performance 2024	School Funding and Resources 2024	Higher Education Quality 2024	School Safety Rank 2024
	Massachusetts	1	1	2	38	37
	New York	2	31	1	12	5
	New Jersey	3	11	5	13	2
	Washington	4	16	11	4	24
	Pennsylvania	5	3	8	44	14
	Vermont	6	5	6	50	26

Per Pupil Spending by State 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

	State	Annual K-12 Per-Pupil Spending 2025↓	K-12 Spending as % of Taxpayer Income 2025	Federal Funding per Student 2025	State Funding per Student 2025	Local Funding per Student 2025	Federal Funding for Public Postsecondary Education 2025	State & Local Funding for Public Postsecondary Edu. 2025
	New York	$33,437	5.26%	$2,438	$12,152	$19,046	$1,256	$11,393
	Vermont	$26,974	5.21%	$2,874	$23,895	$577	$6,597	$8,619
	New Jersey	$26,558	4.82%	$2,030	$12,278	$13,110	$2,410	$7,856
	Connecticut	$25,023	3.95%	$2,077	$9,195	$14,629	$2,348	$13,780
	Massachusetts	$24,359	3.55%	$2,122	$9,500	$10,969	$2,537	$10,623

It's not a perfect correlation, but there is some there.

Old article on why Massachusetts is among the best in the world.

How Massachusetts Built a World-Class School System (Opinion)

Marc Tucker takes an inside look at how Massachusetts built an education system that ranks near the top of the PISA league tables and where it goes from here.

www.edweek.org

 

[Sendai]

Let me preface this by saying it is totally anecdotal....I lived in polar opposite environments when it comes to education....grew up in Metairie and despite numerous attempts to get kicked out, actually graduated from a Catholic HS (hated it).....

And while you could get a good to decent education in the public schools, I've always believed they were woefully underfunded due to lack of local taxes/funding....and the overall quality of education suffered.....

Shortly after college I moved to Montgomery County MD, polar opposite re: public education and local taxes......Yes, the local taxes (property, local county piggyback of 3%) were high, no question.....but the public school system was infinitely better than Jefferson Parish.....many of Montgomery county public schools at every level are as good or better than private religious schools.....

My simple conclusion supports the notion that education is only as good as it has healthy, consistent funding.....quality public education is possible anywhere but folks have to sacrifice to fund it.....to me it was a very acceptable trade off, instead of paying thousands to a private school, I'm paying that money in taxes (actually much less in the end) to fund quality public schools that benefit everyone in the county.....

One side of the aisle knows that public education can work well if sacrifices are made, the other side wants to privatize education that pretty much would ensure that mostly the folks better off would benefit with a healthy dose of religious indoctrination to boot (which makes me ill - it's dishonest and evil to

“Educational Inequality in Montgomery County Public Schools

• Written by Jeffrey W. from Gaithersburg Published to the Sentinel with permission.
• Sep 16, 2023 Updated Jan 8, 2024”

Educational Inequality in Montgomery County Public Schools

As one of the wealthiest and largest counties in the nation, Montgomery County and its school system, Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS), serve over 160,000 students and their families. Chartered

www.thesentinel.com

 

[MT15]

I don’t dispute that kids in lower income neighborhoods often face more challenges than kids in more affluent neighborhoods for a number of reasons. That is precisely why I am pointing out that we need to focus on those kids in those neighborhoods and provide a solution for those kids and parent that want something more and are willing to work for it. If a child that is capable and willing is stuck in an inner city school that is underperforming and has been under performing for years, that is a loss. That’s a failure of the system and the whole idea of public education. Bottomline. We have public schools that fit that description that have failed their mission for decades. I find it unconscionable that we tell those kids and parents in those neighborhoods to wait another 10 or 20 years. Give them an exit ramp if they want it. I am not worried about rich kids. I’m not interested in funding a solution for them. It is not the highest best use of those dollars.

I also don’t understand the logic behind ending AP courses in public schools for kids that are capable and willing to work at that level. That makes no sense to me to hold back on a kid that is capable and willing to work at a higher level.

If education is important to us then we should treat it as such. We should not continue to fund solutions that don’t work or are underperforming simply because they are the public option. Failure is failure be it public or private. The student suffers no matter what.

So because the political system has punished public schools for decades and tied their hands with inadequate funding - you want to scrap the public school system?

Nobody, BTW, is telling parents and kids to wait 10-20 years - we know how to run a good school. I will say it again - you shouldn’t blame schools for the increasing wage gap that has gone on for 40 years now and we are seeing the consequences of that. In many ways the South at least partially abandoned public education in the 60s. How do the literacy rates look in the South compared to states with strong public schools?

Socioeconomic factors play a huge role in test scores, with evidence they are the most important factor in those scores. When those factors are accounted for, private schools do no better than public schools. There is even good evidence that when you take kids from disadvantaged socioeconomic situations and plunk them down in private schools, the scores of those schools go down. Which simply reinforces the context that the kids in private schools have a different socioeconomic reality than the kids in public schools. Using test scores to punish public schools and reward private schools is just simplistic and counterproductive. If you use these standardized test scores to dismantle public education that is a tragedy that will cause generational harm.

Not everyone can go to a private school. It is a system intended to leave kids behind. It’s the way it is set up. It’s exclusionary by nature. It’s the opposite of a public school - which endeavors to teach every single child.

The US public school system is one of the things we got right centuries ago. To dismantle it, and that is what is being proposed and what is happening in some states, will have disastrous consequences.

 

[MT15]

“Educational Inequality in Montgomery County Public Schools

• Written by Jeffrey W. from Gaithersburg Published to the Sentinel with permission.
• Sep 16, 2023 Updated Jan 8, 2024”

Educational Inequality in Montgomery County Public Schools

As one of the wealthiest and largest counties in the nation, Montgomery County and its school system, Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS), serve over 160,000 students and their families. Chartered

www.thesentinel.com

Please, please tell us what your takeaway is from this article.

 

[TampaJoe]

So because the political system has punished public schools for decades and tied their hands with inadequate funding - you want to scrap the public school system?

Nobody, BTW, is telling parents and kids to wait 10-20 years - we know how to run a good school. I will say it again - you shouldn’t blame schools for the increasing wage gap that has gone on for 40 years now and we are seeing the consequences of that. In many ways the South at least partially abandoned public education in the 60s. How do the literacy rates look in the South compared to states with strong public schools?

Socioeconomic factors play a huge role in test scores, with evidence they are the most important factor in those scores. When those factors are accounted for, private schools do no better than public schools. There is even good evidence that when you take kids from disadvantaged socioeconomic situations and plunk them down in private schools, the scores of those schools go down. Which simply reinforces the context that the kids in private schools have a different socioeconomic reality than the kids in public schools. Using test scores to punish public schools and reward private schools is just simplistic and counterproductive. If you use these standardized test scores to dismantle public education that is a tragedy that will cause generational harm.

Not everyone can go to a private school. It is a system intended to leave kids behind. It’s the way it is set up. It’s exclusionary by nature. It’s the opposite of a public school - which endeavors to teach every single child.

The US public school system is one of the things we got right centuries ago. To dismantle it, and that is what is being proposed and what is happening in some states, will have disastrous consequences.

I am not speaking of punishing anyone. Why is it if someone doesn’t agree 100 percent with you it is seen as punishment? And as far as telling parents to wait another 10-20 years, that’s exactly what we are telling parents trapped in a school system that has underperformed for decades and nothing has been done or is being done to remedy that situation. They have no options unless they can afford private education or choose to relocate to a community with better schools. They are literally trapped. Call it what you want.

My point again is this. If we have children trapped in those situations and they and/or their parents want something better, we should be about seeing that they get it. Now I don’t care if it’s public schools, charter schools, private schools, online schools. Whatever. The mission is education. If we can’t do it via a public school, then we owe it to that parent and that kid to find an alternative. Telling them no because we refuse to fund anything outside a public school is contrary to the mission of education in my opinion.

I appreciate your loyalty and dedication to public schools. But I am driven by results. And if something is failing in its primary mission, either fix it or replace it or work around it. Failing the kid is not an option in my view. Loyalty to the child that wants to learn and parents that support that comes before loyalty to a government institution.

 

[MT15]

I am not speaking of punishing anyone. Why is it if someone doesn’t agree 100 percent with you it is seen as punishment? And as far as telling parents to wait another 10-20 years, that’s exactly what we are telling parents trapped in a school system that has underperformed for decades and nothing has been done or is being done to remedy that situation. They have no options unless they can afford private education or choose to relocate to a community with better schools. They are literally trapped. Call it what you want.

My point again is this. If we have children trapped in those situations and they and/or their parents want something better, we should be about seeing that they get it. Now I don’t care if it’s public schools, charter schools, private schools, online schools. Whatever. The mission is education. If we can’t do it via a public school, then we owe it to that parent and that kid to find an alternative. Telling them no because we refuse to fund anything outside a public school is contrary to the mission of education in my opinion.

I appreciate your loyalty and dedication to public schools. But I am driven by results. And if something is failing in its primary mission, either fix it or replace it or work around it. Failing the kid is not an option in my view. Loyalty to the child that wants to learn and parents that support that comes before loyalty to a government institution.

What vouchers will do, if the GOP is allowed to continue down the path they are currently taking, is effectively destroy public education in this country. How is that not punishing everyone who depends on public education? It’s not about agreeing with me or not, it’s about seeing clearly the consequences of what the GOP is doing.

Already some public schools in MO have gone to a 4 day week because of budget shortfalls. This happened after they implemented their voucher program. We have a group of kids - disadvantaged, either rural or urban or special needs - who have no option other than public education. We simply cannot keep stripping money away from public schools and giving it to private schools who cater to the kids who already have all the advantages.

The voucher system as the GOP is implementing it is making everything worse for these kids. By design. It’s not accidental, IMO.

I know we agree far more than we disagree on general education topics. The damage being done by the GOP voucher plans in so many states will end up destroying public education, and leaving a whole lot of kids without much of anything.

 

[TampaJoe]

Both parties should be focused on outcomes. This is way too important to screw up to make political points. And MT, I will point out again that just as many public schools are failing in the mission as private schools. And if we can’t get government(s) to cooperate and fix this then it seems to me we need a plan B other than just going down with the ship.

So both sides need to cooperate and meet somewhere in the middle. That is where agreements and solutions are found. I know that makes some folks heads explode on both sides. But business people and families deal with that reality everyday.

I am a product of public education. Some of the teachers I had in a segregated high school in Jackson TN were truly gifted educators. They knew how to teach and motivate students. I was studying analytical geometry in the 10th grade, multi variable calculus in the 12th grade. My class was a mix of rich and poor, black and white, male and female. They all did well. I don’t know what the secret sauce was but we need to be about figuring it out.

 

[MT15]

Both parties should be focused on outcomes. This is way too important to screw up to make political points. And MT, I will point out again that just as many public schools are failing in the mission as private schools. And if we can’t get government(s) to cooperate and fix this then it seems to me we need a plan B other than just going down with the ship.

So both sides need to cooperate and meet somewhere in the middle. That is where agreements and solutions are found. I know that makes some folks heads explode on both sides. But business people and families deal with that reality everyday.

I am a product of public education. Some of the teachers I had in a segregated high school in Jackson TN were truly gifted educators. They knew how to teach and motivate students. I was studying analytical geometry in the 10th grade, multi variable calculus in the 12th grade. My class was a mix of rich and poor, black and white, male and female. They all did well. I don’t know what the secret sauce was but we need to be about figuring it out.

I’ve told my story on here before, but not since you’ve been here.

My dad came to the US at the age of 8, with zero English, along with his mom and older brother. My grandma was a war widow (from WW1) and Germany had hyperinflation and a rising Nazi Party. Her brother had already come here and wrote to her back in Germany and told her to get her boys out of there or Hitler would get them. So she came.

My dad went to a rural public school. They taught him English and gave him a great education. He won a scholarship to a church college and had a career in education. Obviously the first member of his family to ever go to college, they had no money - my grandmother cleaned houses and took in laundry. He taught HS social studies and also got his superintendents license eventually. Ended his career as an elementary school principal. I think he was motivated to give back to public education after what he experienced as a boy.

There are four kids in our family. 1 PhD, 3 Masters and 3 BS degrees between us 4. Without public education we would have really struggled. Public education is the only option for rural kids and special needs kids. We simply cannot leave them behind.

 

[TampaJoe]

I’ve told my story on here before, but not since you’ve been here.

My dad came to the US at the age of 8, with zero English, along with his mom and older brother. My grandma was a war widow (from WW1) and Germany had hyperinflation and a rising Nazi Party. Her brother had already come here and wrote to her back in Germany and told her to get her boys out of there or Hitler would get them. So she came.

My dad went to a rural public school. They taught him English and gave him a great education. He won a scholarship to a church college and had a career in education. Obviously the first member of his family to ever go to college, they had no money - my grandmother cleaned houses and took in laundry. He taught HS social studies and also got his superintendents license eventually. Ended his career as an elementary school principal. I think he was motivated to give back to public education after what he experienced as a boy.

There are four kids in our family. 1 PhD, 3 Masters and 3 BS degrees between us 4. Without public education we would have really struggled. Public education is the only option for rural kids and special needs kids. We simply cannot leave them behind.

The goals should remain the same no doubt. No argument there. But public education doesn’t necessarily mean public schools in my view. We just need to make sure we can deliver the services required to those students who want them by whatever delivery service necessary. Where public schools work and provide the services, great. Where they don’t work, that failure needs to be mitigated sooner rather than later by whatever means necessary. It is shameful that we have inner city schools that have failed generations of kids. That is unacceptable to me.

You do have quite the story. I got nothing that compares to that.

 

[MT15]

The goals should remain the same no doubt. No argument there. But public education doesn’t necessarily mean public schools in my view. We just need to make sure we can deliver the services required to those students who want them by whatever delivery service necessary. Where public schools work and provide the services, great. Where they don’t work, that failure needs to be mitigated sooner rather than later by whatever means necessary. It is shameful that we have inner city schools that have failed generations of kids. That is unacceptable to me.

You do have quite the story. I got nothing that compares to that.

I think we basically agree. The thing that I object to the most is that the money going to private schools is being directly taken from public schools. And, at least in my state, they aren’t targeting that money.

In my area the public schools are very, very good. Even the urban and rural schools. They’re losing money due to the vouchers anyway. So I’m very worried that as years go by they will slowly deteriorate due to their money going to private schools in this area. Where nobody sends their kids to private schools because of bad public schools.

 

[TampaJoe]

I think we basically agree. The thing that I object to the most is that the money going to private schools is being directly taken from public schools. And, at least in my state, they aren’t targeting that money.

In my area the public schools are very, very good. Even the urban and rural schools. They’re losing money due to the vouchers anyway. So I’m very worried that as years go by they will slowly deteriorate due to their money going to private schools in this area. Where nobody sends their kids to private schools because of bad public schools.

I understand. The public system should be funded at an appropriate level based on the number of students and also based on the needs of those students. That makes sense to me. So special needs students would be allocated funding commensurate to their needs. That should be happening anyway as far as I’m concerned.