Reports (w/ multiple sources) detail Trump's pattern of disrespecting military casualties (1 Viewer)

[nolaspe]

Another article about trumps slipping support with the military
=========================

The weekend warriors in their Army surplus battle rattle, their paintball weapons and gun show specials are getting lots of love from this clown show’s commander in chief.

“GREAT PATRIOTS!” President Trump tweeted, along with a video of the vigilantes flouting the law and causing disorder while cruising the streets of an American city.

Meanwhile, the real defenders of freedom — the men and women of the U.S. military — aren’t getting love from Trump. And they’re sure not giving it.

Unsurprising, given the way Trump didn’t even blink at reports that Russia was paying bounties to Afghan troops for American kills.

Or that he was impeached for withholding military aid to Ukraine, putting global trust in America’s military at risk.

Or that he keeps trying to take millions in military funding — gutting plenty of military projects right here in the D.C. region, including a day care for military kids — to build his wall.........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/support-for-trump-appears-to-be-slipping-in-the-military-and-no-wonder/2020/08/31/7748cf3e-ebb9-11ea-b4bc-3a2098fc73d4_story.html

VoteVets.org just posted this on fbook...

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell The Atlantic.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[SaintForLife]

Yet you show no skepticism toward believing Trump who is a proven compulsive liar. You ignore the daily assault of false statements that he makes.

You almost always defend anything positive about Trump as being true and almost everything negative about Trump as being false, just like you have been doing throughout this thread.

You even hint that you think we are better off with Trump as president, although you repeatedly claim you didn't and won't vote for him. It seems inconsistent to me.

You insinuate he has done no harm, yet you think of yourself as a person who points out things that are false and the things we should be skeptical of. That seems contradictory to me.

We know Trump's a liar that says provably false things on a daily basis to try to make himself look good, yet it's Trump that you defend as being the one telling the truth, while claiming those saying negative things about him are lying. You're very consistent in doing that.


You may be a lot of things, but curious doesn't seem to be one of them.

You've already convinced yourself this story is false and convinced yourself that there will be more negative stories about Trump that you have prejudged to all be false.

You've prejudged the situation which by definition means you are prejudiced. Your mind is already made up in advanced before any future stories and the facts surrounding them are known.

There's no room for curiosity in a closed and prejudiced mind.

You obviously don't read my posts or you are just purposely misrepresenting what I've said. I've criticized Trump many times, but apparently it's only sufficient if I do it every post.

 

[MT15]

SFL, I can see what you are saying and it’s not really all that different from JimE’s statement that Trump as chief executive is pretty harmless. You can let me know if I’m not reading you correctly.

Where we part ways is the belief that an incompetent chief executive is harmless (JimE) or even a good thing if you don’t want government to actually do anything (you). I realize this is an over simplification for brevity’s sake. But there is a huge reason why I disagree.

The lack of coherent or even any real federal response to the current pandemic is tragic. Even if some of the numbers are inflated, and I personally don’t believe that to be true, our lack of response has caused a huge amount of death and suffering that is wholly unnecessary. And it’s still going on, because he cannot care about it more than he cares about his own re-election.

But even if the cost in human death and suffering isn’t enough to convince you, the argument can be made that the economic cost has been staggering as well. Our economy has been dealt a horrible blow (and no, the stock market isn’t the economy). Countless small businesses have been ruined, millions of people are set back financially to the point it will take years for them to recover, if they ever do. A strong federal response that was coordinated and coherent would have done a lot to mitigate the bad effects. We could have truly targeted the businesses that needed the help rather than sending out money willy nilly with almost zero over sight.

At some point, there will be permanent damage to this country due to the way Trump conducts himself. I am truly afraid that another four years of this will send America past the point of no return. Trump may be something of a clownish caricature of an authoritarian, but that’s too close for comfort. Look how easily the folks who say they support the 2nd Amendment in order to protect themselves from an over authoritarian government have turned a blind eye to federal abuses carried out when it wasn’t them who were targeted with illegal seizures. Look at how easily the folks who clamor about their First Amendment rights are lining up behind a federal edict to suppress speech they don’t agree with in universities.

It’s a dangerous game to support and/or defend this man. It has been brought home forcefully to me over the past three years just how much our system of government depends on the people participating to operate in an honorable manner. When we see someone who is dishonest operating the federal government, it’s just grotesque. That’s why so many true conservatives are speaking out against Trump. So many lifelong Republicans are repulsed by him. It is truly imperative that he is gone.

 

[SaintForLife]

What an Orwellian world we’re living in where incompetence is now a reason to vote for someone.

Understatement of the millennium

There are plenty of legitimate issues to criticize him on, including the items listed above. The problem is, you don’t want to include those items because if you did, you might actually have to reconsider who you support. Rather than deal with that cognitive dissonance, you just choose to dismiss those parts of his presidency as “illegitimate.” Denial is a highly effective defense mechanism, and it appears to be working for you.

The only reason you consider other arguments against him “legitimate” is because they aren’t enough to make you reconsider your opinion.

I literally said recently that I'm not voting for him. I like to debate and the Democrats manufactured scandals and outrage is easy to spot and point out.

I guess I need to expand my ignore list for the people here who purposefully misrepresent what I said previously.

 

[LA - L.A.]

You are quick to point out when you think I post a biased source, but you rarely say specifically what you think that is incorrect about what they say. I'll do both.

Lawfare admitted they looked bad after the Russia investigation and I'm not sure Jim Comey's buddy is a good person to cite for accurate analysis.

I guess Wittes doesn't think most people know Goldberg's history or will bother looking it up.

If your only indictment of Jeffrey Goldberg's credibility goes all the way back to reports leading up to the war on Iraq, you don't have a very credible indictment of Jeffrey Goldberg's credibility.

Goldberg was guilty of the same thing almost every other reporter was at that time, he believed the Bush administration and their spinning of the intelligence. Goldberg reported what he was hearing from his sources which everyone else was hearing and confirming.

I'm curious, did you do bother to look up Greenwald's history? If you were truly curious about the truth I think you would have checked the credibility of the person you are relying on to question the credibility of someone you don't agree with. That would be a sign of genuine curiosity, as opposed to bias confirming reading and quoting.

I'm not persuaded by all of the tweets you quoted, because I know the full history of the reporting that went on prior to the Iraq war. Then I again, I don't rely on social media and internet searches that return results that confirm my biases for my information.

Do you have anything besides Goldberg's reporting on the Iraq war almost 20 years ago that says he doesn't accurate report what his sources are telling him?

Do you have anything that shows Trump has not routinely said derogatory things about soldiers and is not lying when he says he did not call McCain a loser for getting captured?

 

[SaintForLife]

SFL, I can see what you are saying and it’s not really all that different from JimE’s statement that Trump as chief executive is pretty harmless. You can let me know if I’m not reading you correctly.

Where we part ways is the belief that an incompetent chief executive is harmless (JimE) or even a good thing if you don’t want government to actually do anything (you). I realize this is an over simplification for brevity’s sake. But there is a huge reason why I disagree.

The lack of coherent or even any real federal response to the current pandemic is tragic. Even if some of the numbers are inflated, and I personally don’t believe that to be true, our lack of response has caused a huge amount of death and suffering that is wholly unnecessary. And it’s still going on, because he cannot care about it more than he cares about his own re-election.

But even if the cost in human death and suffering isn’t enough to convince you, the argument can be made that the economic cost has been staggering as well. Our economy has been dealt a horrible blow (and no, the stock market isn’t the economy). Countless small businesses have been ruined, millions of people are set back financially to the point it will take years for them to recover, if they ever do. A strong federal response that was coordinated and coherent would have done a lot to mitigate the bad effects. We could have truly targeted the businesses that needed the help rather than sending out money willy nilly with almost zero over sight.

At some point, there will be permanent damage to this country due to the way Trump conducts himself. I am truly afraid that another four years of this will send America past the point of no return. Trump may be something of a clownish caricature of an authoritarian, but that’s too close for comfort. Look how easily the folks who say they support the 2nd Amendment in order to protect themselves from an over authoritarian government have turned a blind eye to federal abuses carried out when it wasn’t them who were targeted with illegal seizures. Look at how easily the folks who clamor about their First Amendment rights are lining up behind a federal edict to suppress speech they don’t agree with in universities.

It’s a dangerous game to support and/or defend this man. It has been brought home forcefully to me over the past three years just how much our system of government depends on the people participating to operate in an honorable manner. When we see someone who is dishonest operating the federal government, it’s just grotesque. That’s why so many true conservatives are speaking out against Trump. So many lifelong Republicans are repulsed by him. It is truly imperative that he is gone.

Yes I would say you are reading me correctly. It would be better to have just about any other Republican as president right now, but obviously that's not an option.

Trump has handled Covid poorly especially at the beginning, but considering Obama’s response to H1N1 there is only so much a politician can do to control a worldwide pandemic. Once again Trump deserves criticism, but saying he's responsible for all or most of the deaths is ridiculous. I think you are overestimating what any other president could have done to control the virus and prevent the economy from tanking. They would have most likely handled it better than Trump, but there would still be a lot of Covid cases and the economy would still be hurting.

I stopped taking Trump literally shortly after he was elected. He's a habitual liar, contradicts himself constantly, & many of the things he says sound authoritarian, but usually his actions don't match his words. Most of the authoritarian things he says he wants to do he has zero power to do and he doesn't even attempt to do them.

I am more worried about Biden being president and many of the radical things that the Democrats have been wanting for a while. The current climate with the defund the police movement, looking other way on looting, rioting and violence are concerning. Yes I do believe there needs to be police reform, but the radical elements of BLM have taken over.

One of the few things I like about Trump is him saying that we don't need to be the world's policeman anymore and that we need to stop this cycle of endless wars. He still has been influenced some by the endless war neocons, but he's much better than the previous administrations in that regard. I'm not saying he's smart with foreign relations, but I can accept that if he keeps us from starting another war. I know the neocons have been pushing him on Iran and I'm surprised that he hasn't made a move in their direction notwithstanding the assassination of the Iranian general.

 

[LA - L.A.]

You obviously don't read my posts or you are just purposely misrepresenting what I've said. I've criticized Trump many times, but apparently it's only sufficient if I do it every post.

I've read your posts in this thread and I have read others. Nothing I've said misrepresents anything that you have said.

Apparently, you didn't read my post or are just purposely misrepresenting what I said.

I said you claim most positive reporting about Trump is true and most negative reporting about Trump is false. What I said had nothing to do with how many times you criticized Trump.

I didn't even say you do it all the time. I just pointed out that your pattern or tendency is to rush to Trump's defense whenever there is a negative report about him and that behavior is inconsistent with the idea that you do not support him.

You like to respond to people with a wall of quotes to prove yourself right and them wrong. If you truly feel I'm misrepresenting you, please quote posts in which you accused a few different positive stories about Trump as being false and a few different negative stories about Trump as being true.

Again, this is not about whether or not you criticize Trump.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I literally said recently that I'm not voting for him. I like to debate and the Democrats manufactured scandals and outrage is easy to spot and point out.

I guess I need to expand my ignore list for the people here who purposefully misrepresent what I said previously.

You say you're not voting for Trump. Haven't you also said that you'd rather Trump as president than Biden? So you don't support Trump, but you want Trump over Biden? Doesn't that ultimately mean you want Trump to win the election, even though you're not going to vote for him?

Is there a third party candidate that you support and are going to vote for? If so, then please start a thread about that candidate to give us all a break from the Trump-Republican and Biden-Democratic treadmill.

 

[MT15]

Yes I would say you are reading me correctly. It would be better to have just about any other Republican as president right now, but obviously that's not an option.

Trump has handled Covid poorly especially at the beginning, but considering Obama’s response to H1N1 there is only so much a politician can do to control a worldwide pandemic. Once again Trump deserves criticism, but saying he's responsible for all or most of the deaths is ridiculous. I think you are overestimating what any other president could have done to control the virus and prevent the economy from tanking. They would have most likely handled it better than Trump, but there would still be a lot of Covid cases and the economy would still be hurting.

I stopped taking Trump literally shortly after he was elected. He's a habitual liar, contradicts himself constantly, & many of the things he says sound authoritarian, but usually his actions don't match his words. Most of the authoritarian things he says he wants to do he has zero power to do and he doesn't even attempt to do them.

I am more worried about Biden being president and many of the radical things that the Democrats have been wanting for a while. The current climate with the defund the police movement, looking other way on looting, rioting and violence are concerning. Yes I do believe there needs to be police reform, but the radical elements of BLM have taken over.

One of the few things I like about Trump is him saying that we don't need to be the world's policeman anymore and that we need to stop this cycle of endless wars. He still has been influenced some by the endless war neocons, but he's much better than the previous administrations in that regard. I'm not saying he's smart with foreign relations, but I can accept that if he keeps us from starting another war. I know the neocons have been pushing him on Iran and I'm surprised that he hasn't made a move in their direction notwithstanding the assassination of the Iranian general.

I feel like this is the first time we see you speak with your own words rather than trying to “win” some sort of argument by posting 6 tweets in a row.

It’s nice to “hear” you this way. It should happen more often.

 

[Saintamaniac]

According to who?

Dude, he said that shirt. Your defense of him is like holding water in a colander. He said it so just deal with it. IMO, no one is buying any of the quack tweet posts you keep posting in an attempt to discredit the reporting. He said it and he meant it. Trump hates the military and quite frankly he hates you. You just don't realize it but that's part of his plan. He convinces the vulnerable to believe in him and "his teachings". I hope you realize this before he gets to the special juice phase.

 

[SaintForLife]

Dude, he said that shirt. Your defense of him is like holding water in a colander. He said it so just deal with it. IMO, no one is buying any of the quack tweet posts you keep posting in an attempt to discredit the reporting. He said it and he meant it. Trump hates the military and quite frankly he hates you. You just don't realize it but that's part of his plan. He convinces the vulnerable to believe in him and "his teachings". I hope you realize this before he gets to the special juice phase.

So you respond to my post and ignore my question. If you don't want to answer my question why even respond to my post?

 

[N.O.Bronco]

Is that the new standard for if a story is to be believed? Do you remember when the false CNN story about Don Jr getting advance knowledge of the Wikileaks dump that was "comfirmed" by multiple sources and news agencies? Actually all of those "confirmations" turned out to be false.

The media and Democrats must have little confidence in Biden's ability to win that they have to create these supposed bombshells that all fizzle away with closer scrutiny. The Russian bounties, the Post Office scandal, Trump hates the military, Mueller didn't actually look at Trumps taxes and didn't fully investigate his Russian ties. The playbook is very obvious to anyone who isn't a Trump hater. There are plenty legitimate issues to criticize Trump on, but I guess those aren't good enough for the media and Democrats. Did they not learn anything from Hillary’s horrible campaign when she made it all about Trump's character?

Omg how can I defend Trump when we all know he's a horrible person? Well I like to debate on a message board and I like pointing out things that are false or that we should be skeptical about believing. Also I'm less frightened of when Republicans are in power due to Trump and the Republicans incompetence. Look how little Trump and the Republicans have accomplished with new legislation due to Trump being an idiot or incompetent. There are some issues that need addressing, but imo the country is usually better off when there is a stalemate and we don't get anymore bad bills.

I am curious what the next manufactured bombshell will be and I know we will see plenty since the election is near.

Frankly, as I’ve grown tired of the endless cycle of back and forth with people that are seemingly incapable of being intellectually honest(purposefully or unfortunately unable), I largely have nodded out around here, but during my brief passing through to read the thoughts of the many people I do respect here, I can’t help but inject myself into this one. As this one needs pointing out because it is so egregious and you are using it as an ongoing justification to derail pages of this thread, wasting people’s time with a deflection that doesn’t hold up.

Cnn posted an exclusive story in the mid Afternoon of December the 8th alleging Don Jr. received an email on Sep 4th 2016 informing him of the WikiLeaks dump. Within a couple hours The Washington Post attempted to corroborate the story and couldn’t, they in fact reached out to CNN after receiving access to the original copy of the email and notified them that the email was actually dated the 14th, which was after the dump. The Post published those findings and after CNN’s own internal corroboration attempt confirmed the inaccuracy, that same evening, just hours later, CNN made an on air retraction and apology and posted a formal retraction on their front page and the article. The story you claim is an indictment on the trustworthiness of anonymous sources is actually a shining example of the system aggressively and successfully policing one another and transparently correcting the record when inconsistencies in sources arise.

In contrast, The Atlantic story has been independently corroborated by The NY Times, Washington Post, the AP, and, oh yeah, multiple people at Fox News.

Frankly, I can draw no other conclusions than either you have developed some incredibly poor news processing habits, are recklessly quick to confirm your biases, or you are knowingly outright lying about the Don Jr. story. And I’m not sure which diminishes your credibility going forward worse? Poorly demonstrating your capacity to accurately gather and process political events, being deeply susceptible to confirmation bias and motivated reasoning, or being intentionally misleading about news stories to win internet arguments.

Whatever the cause that led you to that inaccurate place, you probably owe the board an apology for wasting their time and should really take the time to reflect on what you are doing wrong to end up in such places where you are so aggressively confident in weaponizing what are conclusions that are in fact diametrically opposed to the reality.

 

[SaintForLife]

I feel like this is the first time we see you speak with your own words rather than trying to “win” some sort of argument by posting 6 tweets in a row.

It’s nice to “hear” you this way. It should happen more often.

I know why you liked my post Because I criticized Trump which I have done before. Most of those tweets I post show documents or articles that support what I'm talking about.

 

[Saintamaniac]

So you respond to my post and ignore my question. If you don't want to answer my question why even respond to my post?

The question you asked has already been answered. I care not to give legitimacy to your continued defense of the indefensible. I feel that it is every citizen's duty, especially during trump's presidency, to quash misinformation whenever they encounter it. I encountered it by your continued defense of trump. This is why I responded to your post.

 

[SaintForLife]

Frankly, as I’ve grown tired of the endless cycle of back and forth with people that are seemingly incapable of being intellectually honest(purposefully or unfortunately unable), I largely have nodded out around here, but during my brief passing through to read the thoughts of the many people I do respect here, I can’t help but inject myself into this one. As this one needs pointing out because it is so egregious and you are using it as an ongoing justification to derail pages of this thread, wasting people’s time with a deflection that doesn’t hold up.

Cnn posted an exclusive story in the mid Afternoon of December the 8th alleging Don Jr. received an email on Sep 4th 2016 informing him of the WikiLeaks dump. Within a couple hours The Washington Post attempted to corroborate the story and couldn’t, they in fact reached out to CNN after receiving access to the original copy of the email and notified them that the email was actually dated the 14th, which was after the dump. The Post published those findings and after CNN’s own internal corroboration attempt confirmed the inaccuracy, that same evening, just hours later, CNN made an on air retraction and apology and posted a formal retraction on their front page and the article. The story you claim is an indictment on the trustworthiness of anonymous sources is actually a shining example of the system aggressively and successfully policing one another and transparently correcting the record when inconsistencies in sources arise.

In contrast, The Atlantic story has been independently corroborated by The NY Times, Washington Post, the AP, and, oh yeah, multiple people at Fox News.

Frankly, I can draw no other conclusions than either you have developed some incredibly poor news processing habits, are recklessly quick to confirm your biases, or you are knowingly outright lying about the Don Jr. story. And I’m not sure which diminishes your credibility going forward worse? Poorly demonstrating your capacity to accurately gather and process political events, being deeply susceptible to confirmation bias and motivated reasoning, or being intentionally misleading about news stories to win internet arguments.

Whatever the cause that led you to that inaccurate place, you probably owe the board an apology for wasting their time and should really take the time to reflect on what you are doing wrong to end up in such places where you are so aggressively confident in weaponizing what are conclusions that are in fact diametrically opposed to the reality.

It appears that you didn't read my post or you are purposely misrepresenting what I said. I never mentioned the Washington Post and you ignored how NBC and CBS both "confirmed" CNN's false Don Jr story.

The Atlantic story has been independently confirmed? It's most likely the same source that the Atlantic story was based on.

[Mod Edit overly rude and unnecessary]

 

[N.O.Bronco]

It appears that you didn't read my post or you are purposely misrepresenting what I said. I never mentioned the Washington Post and you ignored how NBC and CBS both "confirmed" CNN's false Don Jr story.

The Atlantic story has been independently confirmed? It's most likely the same source that the Atlantic story was based on.

Don't you have some woke educational seminar you should be at?

You do know what multiple source independent corroboration means right?

I’m now leaning toward you are intentionally lying.

Seeing as you immediately shift goal posts and avoid addressing the substance of the push back. Aren’t providing corroboration to your allegation against NBC and CBS allegedly corroborating the story(in fact the only stories from that date involve either the error itself as the focal point of a story or them pointing out the error no later than 6pm the same day on the article that reported CNN’s allegation, so where is this dereliction of journalistic duty you assert??). And you are intentionally ignoring how the incident ultimately makes your argument a counter point to what you wanted to use it for, which is to dismiss stories involving Trump and anonymous sources because the news media is so complicit in backing up false allegations that the default is to not trust any corroborated stories, even if independently corroborated. To which your example actually demonstrates the opposite. Where an initially made allegation was swiftly and transparently corrected through the independent corroboration process within the news media.

Hopefully this incident, [Mod Edit overly rude and unnecessary], can at least serve as a cautionary tale for others to think twice about assuming good faith on your behalf and wasting time engaging someone obviously not interested in reciprocating the efforts they put in.

Good day

 

[dtc]

I got your PM. I had never even heard of ableist so I googled ableist and mixed case typing. What came up was 2 random twitter posts, some reditt posts and some random websites. So I had no idea if you were being honest or just complaining so I didn't respond.

You don't seem to want to create a welcome community. It seemed like you were looking for any reason to report me because you don't like what I post or how I post. That's the last thing I will say about this subject.

I have to add that I'd never heard the term "ableist" nor would I ever have considered an oddly capitalized passage a meme.

Just saying.

 

[CoolBrees]

So back to the fact that our sitting “president” hates military personnel and thinks our fallen heroes are suckers and losers...

 

[dtc]

Is that the new standard for if a story is to be believed? Do you remember when the false CNN story about Don Jr getting advance knowledge of the Wikileaks dump that was "comfirmed" by multiple sources and news agencies? Actually all of those "confirmations" turned out to be false.

The media and Democrats must have little confidence in Biden's ability to win that they have to create these supposed bombshells that all fizzle away with closer scrutiny. The Russian bounties, the Post Office scandal, Trump hates the military, Mueller didn't actually look at Trumps taxes and didn't fully investigate his Russian ties. The playbook is very obvious to anyone who isn't a Trump hater. There are plenty legitimate issues to criticize Trump on, but I guess those aren't good enough for the media and Democrats. Did they not learn anything from Hillary’s horrible campaign when she made it all about Trump's character?

Omg how can I defend Trump when we all know he's a horrible person? Well I like to debate on a message board and I like pointing out things that are false or that we should be skeptical about believing. Also I'm less frightened of when Republicans are in power due to Trump and the Republicans incompetence. Look how little Trump and the Republicans have accomplished with new legislation due to Trump being an idiot or incompetent. There are some issues that need addressing, but imo the country is usually better off when there is a stalemate and we don't get anymore bad bills.

I am curious what the next manufactured bombshell will be and I know we will see plenty since the election is near.

In general I agree with your last paragraph, but there's plenty of damage that's been done to our standing in the world and the people dying and sick of Covid. Sure, being skeptical and debate are healthy endeavors, but at this point the number of things to be skeptical of regarding Trump is so large that even a tiny percentage of it being accurate is too much.