Post-Election Results Analysis (3 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

The election data is always very interesting. Let's have a thread to discuss it so that it doesn't get washed away in the gameday thread.

We always suspected that a portion of the Trump vote in 2016 will leave him based on overall distaste with his conduct as president. There appears to be some evidence of that emerging . . . here's some from Wisconsin.

 

[DaveXA]

The post mortem is that we need to stop treating the latino vote as if it is a singular voting bloc that cares about the same set of core values.

For example:
There's a subset of latinos in TX that despise illegal immigration because they went through the legal channels, spent $$$ on immigration lawyers, etc to become legal citizens whereas they feel illegal immigrants skipped to the front of the line to get in. These care more about illegal immigration than they do care about social programs etc.

There's a subset of millenial aged latino voters that carry the same set of values as most other millenial/progressive voters, MFA, DACA, Student Loan Debt, etc...

There's a subset that is devoutly religious and are against what they perceive as the left's obsession w/ abortion, and other "amoral" lifestyles

There's a subset that run small businesses that saw that the shutdown adversely affected them personally...they want the economy opened up and back to pre-covid now, human cost be damned

There are other subsets as well...anti socialist, and so on, but my point is that you might not be able to satisfy all but you need to understand that each group has different values and there is a way to be against illegal immigration without being for what can be argued as "open borders", you can be for social programs without parading around calling yourself a "Democratic Socialist", there's a way to argue for a woman's right to choose without sounding as if you're some sort of abortion addicted thingy.

Incoherent babbling aside, maybe it's just the flaming moderate in me that sees that every issue isn't a zero sum game where I have to have 100% of what I want and you get nothing or vice versa...there is a happy medium, and this applies across all demographic groups. You can be for immigration - and against amnesty abuse, you can be for better policing without being all "defund the police"-ish...and so on.

You're onto something about the illegal immigration thing. While my wife is Asian, she went through all of the legal processes to become a legal citizen which was a years long process. Since becoming a naturalized citizen, she gets aggravated when hearing about illegals trying to get in the country. She thinks they should all go through the same process she did and feels like shortcuts do a disservice to those going through the proper channels to become citizens.

So obviously that affects how she votes in elections.

 

[always4su]

You're onto something about the illegal immigration thing. While my wife is Asian, she went through all of the legal processes to become a legal citizen which was a years long process. Since becoming a naturalized citizen, she gets aggravated when hearing about illegals trying to get in the country. She thinks they should all go through the same process she did and feels like shortcuts do a disservice to those going through the proper channels to become citizens.

So obviously that affects how she votes in elections.

And another great example of Republican messaging. They paint Democrats as for completely open borders. They're not, but the message resonates in the areas it needs to. Which is why despite rapidly changing demographics and a decided trend to the left, the Democrats just can't get over the hump in TX. Republicans painted them as open borders and shutting down big oil. It worked.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

You're onto something about the illegal immigration thing. While my wife is Asian, she went through all of the legal processes to become a legal citizen which was a years long process. Since becoming a naturalized citizen, she gets aggravated when hearing about illegals trying to get in the country. She thinks they should all go through the same process she did and feels like shortcuts do a disservice to those going through the proper channels to become citizens.

So obviously that affects how she votes in elections.

When I was stationed in New Mexico, I worked with a Mexican-American dude from El Paso that shared those same sentiments...his family did it legally at a cost and he hated/still hates illegal immigrants to this day, he's about one of the most pro-trump FB friends I have...unfollowed. Still friends, but can't stand to see the crap on my newsfeed when I do check FB.

Oh and most def this stuff has an effect, it's why Dems can't win Texas, they're too busy pandering to a base that can't even vote. Then you have Beto telling Texans he's going to take their ARs, like who in the eff do they think they're talking to? Their messaging has been and is piss poor since Obama left, they pissed away all his momentum.

 

[donato]

Yeah I think it's pretty disgusting the ego some of these newer citizens have about "doing it the right way". For most immigrants it's nearly impossible to get citizenship outside of marriage or very specific circumstances. The current legal immigration system needs a vast overhaul. These people should just happy they have citizenship. If someone else gets legal citizenship to be happy and it's done easier, then so what? It's like the people who get upset at the idea of student loan forgiveness.

Can you imagine previously freed slaves getting upset after the Civil War that the rest of the slaves are now free too?

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Yeah I think it's pretty disgusting the ego some of these newer citizens have about "doing it the right way". For most immigrants it's nearly impossible to get citizenship outside of marriage or very specific circumstances. The current legal immigration system needs a vast overhaul. These people should just happy they have citizenship. If someone else gets legal citizenship to be happy and it's done easier, then so what? It's like the people who get upset at the idea of student loan forgiveness.

Can you imagine previously freed blacks getting upset after the Civil War that the rest of the blacks are now free too?

I'm actually not for blanket student loan forgiveness...does higher education need reforming? Yes...costs are way out of control, but blanket higher ed loan forgiveness isn't the way to go IMO. Where does it stop? where does it start? who's loans get forgiven vs who's loans don't? who covers the end costs?

I feel as if there is an avenue for abuse here. If...and I emphasize the IF in this, we were to do some sort of loan forgiveness, we need to look at getting some return from this investment:

1. if someone is working as a teacher to pay off their debt from their degree in elementary/education - sure
2. scientists/doctors, sure...if they're practicing and actually benefitting society
3. Law school...make it conditional, serve a year as a public defender/ or prosecutor post bar

And so on...

 

[DaveXA]

I'm not sure which poster you're referring to. The only reference I see here is this:

That's not an accusation that nothing was done about it, just disgust with Zuckerbergs comments that the video and the statements by Bannon did not break FB rules. That's a pretty shocking admission for FB and an indication of where they are right now. Many on the left are leaving FB for Liker.com and many on the right are leaving FB for Parler..com. As his market share dwindles, he'll be forced to deal with his cavalier policies.

Yes, that was what I was referring to. But I wouldn't ever visit Bannon's page. I assume that's where it was posted. FB does have a difficult dilemma though. Where do you draw the line on people's personal views? And how do you determine whether the intent was just hyperbole or exaggeration to make a point or real threat of violence. I think his comments were irresponsible. But when I first saw it, I didn't think he was speaking literally. Certainly not language I would condone though. He's a despicable human being, but how far is too far?

 

[MT15]

Ok, but you have a poster saying not enough is being done about it, yet I'm not finding it by simply browsing Twitter/FB? It seems to me they're doing something about it. Maybe I'm not the audience...idk.

hey, Dave! I was criticizing FB for saying that calling for beheadings of public figures wasn’t enough to get Bannon booted off of FB. I think they took down the content. Many people interpreted the rules to call for the person advocating such violence be banned from the platform, but then Bannon met with Zuck and he let him back with full privileges. The quote I saw from Zuck was that Bannon hadn’t violated enough rules to be banned.

To be clear, he can ignore his own rules if he wants, but he can also be criticized for it. I think there should have been a sterner response to that comment. Zuck is either an alt right true believer or he just doesn’t care that people promote dangerous violence on his platform, IMO.

 

[DaveXA]

hey, Dave! I was criticizing FB for saying that calling for beheadings of public figures wasn’t enough to get Bannon booted off of FB. I think they took down the content. Many people interpreted the rules to call for the person advocating such violence be banned from the platform, but then Bannon met with Zuck and he let him back with full privileges. The quote I saw from Zuck was that Bannon hadn’t violated enough rules to be banned.

To be clear, he can ignore his own rules if he wants, but he can also be criticized for it. I think there should have been a sterner response to that comment. Zuck is either an alt right true believer or he just doesn’t care that people promote dangerous violence on his platform, IMO.

I think Zuck just wants the platform to be what it is, which is an open forum for people to be whatever they want to be. That said, inevitably, people are going to utilize it for nefarious purposes, whatever the political persuasions. I don't think he's endorsing anything as much as he's leaving the platform as open as possible. That of course invites anyone and everyone who will push the envelope as much as they can. That's what it feels like to me. I only use it a couple of times a year though, so I'm not feeling invested in how he handles it going forward. With such a large audience, it does matter though.

 

[coldseat]

When I was stationed in New Mexico, I worked with a Mexican-American dude from El Paso that shared those same sentiments...his family did it legally at a cost and he hated/still hates illegal immigrants to this day, he's about one of the most pro-trump FB friends I have...unfollowed. Still friends, but can't stand to see the crap on my newsfeed when I do check FB.

Oh and most def this stuff has an effect, it's why Dems can't win Texas, they're too busy pandering to a base that can't even vote. Then you have Beto telling Texans he's going to take their ARs, like who in the eff do they think they're talking to? Their messaging has been and is piss poor since Obama left, they pissed away all his momentum.

The vast majority of the people that come here illegally would love to have an opportunity to access legal immigration and the means go through the process. They don't, that's the only reason they remain illegal.

Anecdotally, many of the new immigrants that go through the legal process and have these very harsh attitudes to illegal immigrants see is as a way to differentiate and set themselves apart from illegal immigrant community so that they don't suffer the same type of discrimination. They also tend to have had the means and contacts to do so in their former country. And they may also not want the "rift raft" from the former country to follow them here.

 

[donato]

I'm actually not for blanket student loan forgiveness...does higher education need reforming? Yes...costs are way out of control, but blanket higher ed loan forgiveness isn't the way to go IMO. Where does it stop? where does it start? who's loans get forgiven vs who's loans don't? who covers the end costs?

I feel as if there is an avenue for abuse here. If...and I emphasize the IF in this, we were to do some sort of loan forgiveness, we need to look at getting some return from this investment:

1. if someone is working as a teacher to pay off their debt from their degree in elementary/education - sure
2. scientists/doctors, sure...if they're practicing and actually benefitting society
3. Law school...make it conditional, serve a year as a public defender/ or prosecutor post bar

And so on...

It's a complicated issue (loan forgiveness) about how it's funded. The bigger point here however is that you shouldn't not make something easier or better just because it was difficult for people who already accomplished it. We should strive to make things efficient, fair and better now.

 

[coldseat]

It's a complicated issue (loan forgiveness) about how it's funded. The bigger point here however is that you shouldn't not make something easier or better just because it was difficult for people who already accomplished it. We should strive to make things efficient, fair and better now.

This.

This also applies to health care. Our health care system doesn't produce good results, is to expensive, doesn't cover everybody and is unsustainable. We know we need a different system, the one we have is broken and doesn't work. What options have Republicans ever proposed to address all of these shortfalls? They have absolutely nothing, yet somehow that's never talked about. All we get is fear of socialism.

I just always wonder what exactly are Republican voters want in there health care? Are they satisfied with anything, no matter how bad or unsustainable, just as long as it's not a system based on socialistic principles? Why don't they care about it as much as democratic voters, when this directly impacts their life?

 

[SystemShock]

... and speaking of illegal immigration, I'll throw in another factor: just like the reason for the many cartels in México, one of the reasons for people trying to get in the U.S. illegally, is that the type of work illegals do is in demand. And people in the U.S. generally don't want to do it.

Instead of where is Waldo, Find the Non-Mexican


.


I can post a gazillion of these.

 

[porculator]

I just always wonder what exactly are Republican voters want in there health care? Are they satisfied with anything, no matter how bad or unsustainable, just as long as it's not a system based on socialistic principles? Why don't they care about it as much as democratic voters, when this directly impacts their life?

Like most things, for better or worse Republican voters want to keep what they're comfortable with and don't want much to change. A lot of their voters (65+) already have their government funded healthcare. I think the others are generally fine with what they have personally thru work or whatever. No one thinks its perfect but its also the devil you know, and no matter how amazing single payer might be, it would still be at least a minor pain in the arse for everyone to transition into a new system, and deal with whatever hiccups or worse such a giant nationwide change would spur. And I can't blame anyone for feeling that way. The only way to make universal federal health care work is to prove that it works and saves money for the people that have it.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

How does the length of our immigration process compare to those of other countries?

 

[Taurus]

Yeah I think it's pretty disgusting the ego some of these newer citizens have about "doing it the right way". For most immigrants it's nearly impossible to get citizenship outside of marriage or very specific circumstances. The current legal immigration system needs a vast overhaul. These people should just happy they have citizenship. If someone else gets legal citizenship to be happy and it's done easier, then so what? It's like the people who get upset at the idea of student loan forgiveness.

Can you imagine previously freed slaves getting upset after the Civil War that the rest of the slaves are now free too?

I wonder how many of these new citizens arrived seeking asylum?
'Cause if you do that lately, they steal your children.

 

[Devildog]

This.

This also applies to health care. Our health care system doesn't produce good results, is to expensive, doesn't cover everybody and is unsustainable. We know we need a different system, the one we have is broken and doesn't work. What options have Republicans ever proposed to address all of these shortfalls? They have absolutely nothing, yet somehow that's never talked about. All we get is fear of socialism.

I just always wonder what exactly are Republican voters want in there health care? Are they satisfied with anything, no matter how bad or unsustainable, just as long as it's not a system based on socialistic principles? Why don't they care about it as much as democratic voters, when this directly impacts their life?

Just like with immigration, people don't want others to have free or cheap healthcare because they paid exorbitant amounts of money for their ailments and don't want people to have it easier. This was actually told to me by a so called "friend" of mine. Who is also a "Christian."

 

[SystemShock]

How does the length of our immigration process compare to those of other countries?

For what it is worth, my wife and youngest just went through the process in MX. My son got a born-in-foreign-land birth certificate in 7 days upon presenting apostilled (is that a verb?) U.S. birth certificate, a copy of my birth certificate, and a utility bill in my name. My wife, took about 2 months to get her a Mexican green card, upon presenting apostilled marriage certificate, my birth certificate, and a utility bill in my name. My wife got to experience being an illegal for 5 months

And before anyone says no one wants to move to MX , my hometown's immigration office was packed (very long lines) with Central Americans, Venezuelans, Cubans, Venezuelans trying to pass for Cubans, Colombians, couple of 'Muricans besides my wife and son, an Argentinian (she was h.o.t.), an Indian...

 

[J-DONK]