Parnas document release details Giuliani-arranged surveillance, possible threat to Amb. Yovanovitch (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

This thread of the Parnas documents seems to deserve its own discussion apart from the impeachment thread. Yovanovitch has called on the State Department to investigate, and Secretary Pompeo has yet to address the disturbing matter.

In the document trove released yesterday, it appears that Giuliani's Ukraine activities included arranging surveillance of U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch through Lev Parnas and Robert F. Hyde, a Trump donor and now Republican candidate for Congress in Connecticut. The documents reveal the detail to which Yovanovitch was under surveillance and the exchanges (mostly from WhatsApp) suggest that actors were prepared to harm Yovanovitch.

In November, Yovanovitch testified that shortly after these exchanges, she was urged to immediately return to the United States for her own physical safety - advice that she heeded an returned the next day.

 

[MT15]

BTW, I just took your correction at face value and didn't double check. But, I have seen a couple of articles that have stated as a matter of fact that Pelosi did use pens that had her signature on them (and for some reason were shaped like rounds of ammo). I lifted the photo attached below from an article by the Guardian. Are you sure that her use of such pens has been debunked?

BF, you are correct, she did use these pens, what was debunked were some stories that they cost $2000 each, so I apologize. I should have paid better attention to what was debunked. So I am sorry I doubted you.

I also saw a different photo where the gold part did look a bit more like bullets also.

I then saw where McConnell criticized her for being partisan. And that part did make me laugh. I don’t know how these politicians can be so hypocritical, and do it all the time. It’s like they have Etch-A-Sketches for memories.

 

[Beach Friends]

BF, you are correct, she did use these pens, what was debunked were some stories that they cost $2000 each, so I apologize. I should have paid better attention to what was debunked. So I am sorry I doubted you.

I also saw a different photo where the gold part did look a bit more like bullets also.

I then saw where McConnell criticized her for being partisan. And that part did make me laugh. I don’t know how these politicians can be so hypocritical, and do it all the time. It’s like they have Etch-A-Sketches for memories.

No problem at all - I know you wouldn't have mentioned it if you didn't believe there was a problem with the claim. There is a lot of junk out there and it appears to be more sophisticated than ever. I think we all just need to be patient with each other and look at as though we are all targets, but here we are in it together. For example, it's entirely possible for a source on the left to be motivated to debunk a right leaning story/item and for you to be aware of that sooner than I.

 

[samiam5211]

Recording indicating Trump wanted to 'get rid' of Yovanovitch turned over to House

Joseph Bondy, an attorney for Lev Parnas, told the PBS NewsHour on Friday that Parnas, an associate of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, was at a dinner with the president and several others when Trump said he wanted Marie Yovanovitch out.

www.pbs.org

“The recording, reviewed and first reported by ABC News, appears to capture Trump saying, “Get rid of her! Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it.” The PBS NewsHour has not obtained or independently reviewed the recording.”

Just normal President stuff here. You’d have to be deranged to think he was wanted someone to harm the ambassador...

 

[insidejob]

Recording indicating Trump wanted to 'get rid' of Yovanovitch turned over to House

Joseph Bondy, an attorney for Lev Parnas, told the PBS NewsHour on Friday that Parnas, an associate of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, was at a dinner with the president and several others when Trump said he wanted Marie Yovanovitch out.

www.pbs.org

“The recording, reviewed and first reported by ABC News, appears to capture Trump saying, “Get rid of her! Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it.” The PBS NewsHour has not obtained or independently reviewed the recording.”

Just normal President stuff here. You’d have to be deranged to think he was wanted someone to harm the ambassador...

ABC News put out the recording? I'd like to hear it if so.

ETA: No recording from any of the links but there is this gem of a quote:

During the conversation, several of the participants can be heard laughing with the president. At another point, the recording appears to capture Trump praising his new choice of secretary of state, saying emphatically: "[Mike] Pompeo is the best." But the most striking moment comes when Parnas and the president discuss the dismissal of his ambassador to Ukraine.

Parnas appears to say: "The biggest problem there, I think where we need to start is we gotta get rid of the ambassador. She's still left over from the Clinton administration," Parnas can be heard telling Trump. "She's basically walking around telling everybody 'Wait, he's gonna get impeached, just wait." (Yovanovitch actually had served in the State Department since the Reagan administration.)

It was not until a year later that Yovanovitch was recalled from her position -- in April 2019. She said the decision was based on "unfounded and false claims by people with clearly questionable motives" that she was disloyal to Trump.

 

[samiam5211]

ABC News put out the recording? I'd like to hear it if so.

I can’t find the recording.

I suspect they have more recordings and are working on a story.

It had to come from Parnas, and he’s probably got recording of many conversations.

 

[insidejob]

I can’t find the recording.

I suspect they have more recordings and are working on a story.

It had to come from Parnas, and he’s probably got recording of many conversations.

Yeah, I agree. I clicked through the various links from yours and there's no recording to listen to but there is a good bit of what was recorded in there.

 

[MT15]

I can’t find the recording.

I suspect they have more recordings and are working on a story.

It had to come from Parnas, and he’s probably got recording of many conversations.

It came from the other guy I read. Trumps language is a bit jarring. Also, he can recall her at any time, so why would he ever tell Parnas to do it?

it should also be noted that Parnas now admits he made up the stories about her. She never did any of those things. Rudy and his guys were angling to get information that the corrupt fired prosecutor said he had on Biden, and he made getting rid of her his condition. Of course, he never really had anything on Biden, but they smeared an exemplary public servant without any regard because they knew how to manipulate Trump into getting rid of her.

just imagine, our POTUS is so easily manipulated with lies like those because he lacks the common sense or intellectual curiosity to do any research or reading on his own. He believed Rudy and Frick and Frack over Pompeo and his own intelligence officers. He’s unfit for office, clearly.

 

[samiam5211]

It came from the other guy I read. Trumps language is a bit jarring. Also, he can recall her at any time, so why would he ever tell Parnas to do it?

it should also be noted that Parnas now admits he made up the stories about her. She never did any of those things. Rudy and his guys were angling to get information that the corrupt fired prosecutor said he had on Biden, and he made getting rid of her his condition. Of course, he never really had anything on Biden, but they smeared an exemplary public servant without any regard because they knew how to manipulate Trump into getting rid of her.

just imagine, our POTUS is so easily manipulated with lies like those because he lacks the common sense or intellectual curiosity to do any research or reading on his own. He believed Rudy and Frick and Frack over Pompeo and his own intelligence officers. He’s unfit for office, clearly.

Yea, I remember when we were worried that Putin had dirt on Trump.

Today we know that pretty much everyone has dirt on Trump, even Igor and Lev have dirt on Trump, and many of us still don’t seem concerned at all.

Looks like the knives are out, Rudy’s “insurance” is next.

 

[FullMonte]

Recording indicating Trump wanted to 'get rid' of Yovanovitch turned over to House

Joseph Bondy, an attorney for Lev Parnas, told the PBS NewsHour on Friday that Parnas, an associate of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, was at a dinner with the president and several others when Trump said he wanted Marie Yovanovitch out.

www.pbs.org

“The recording, reviewed and first reported by ABC News, appears to capture Trump saying, “Get rid of her! Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it.” The PBS NewsHour has not obtained or independently reviewed the recording.”

Just normal President stuff here. You’d have to be deranged to think he was wanted someone to harm the ambassador...

That recording is quite clearly a fake. After all, Trump doesn't know Parnas, and only took a picture with him at an event. It's literally not possible that they had some kind of meaningful conversation like that.

 

[Taurus]

So, will it move the needle at all if, after the Senate finishes their little kangaroo court, we find out Trump ordered a hit on his own ambassador?

 

[wardorican]

ABC News put out the recording? I'd like to hear it if so.

ETA: No recording from any of the links but there is this gem of a quote:

Part of the recording is in the video in this article.

'Take her out': Recording appears to capture Trump at private dinner saying he wants Ukraine ambassador fired

President Donald Trump was apparently heard discussing firing Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch during a 2018 dinner,.

abcnews.go.com

 

[MT15]

So, it’s getting hard to follow the corruption. From the snippet I heard this morning, this tape is from early 2018? If so, that probably puts it before the “get dirt on Joe Biden” timeline.

Trump is clearly already interested in Ukraine, though, so what’s his angle? Was Rudy at this small dinner party? Why is Lev Parnas smearing the US Ambassador? Why is Trump so receptive to the smear? Why does Trump sound like a bad Mafia movie boss?

Also, it should at least be noted that Trump completely lied when he claimed he didn’t know the two shady characters Lev and Igor. He not only knew them, he trusted Lev to the point that he made a snap decision to fire a well regarded US Ambassador. A career diplomat who has served well since Reagan was in office.

The speculation I saw involves Lev and Igor, and maybe Rudy as well, trying to make a corrupt natural gas deal in Ukraine, and Yovanovitch was blocking them, or insisting they must go through proper channels? Now that’s pure speculation, admittedly, but it makes as much sense as anything else at this point.

 

[reubenray]

My question is why did Trump keep any of the previous Ambassadors? Isn't it normal practice to remove and replace them from one POTUS to another POTUS?

 

[MT15]

My question is why did Trump keep any of the previous Ambassadors? Isn't it normal practice to remove and replace them from one POTUS to another POTUS?

Some of them are political appointees, mostly in countries we are strongly allied with and/or with very stable political situations. The “tricky” countries are almost always handled by career diplomats. Yovanovitch, for example, has served every President since Reagan.

 

[Beach Friends]

So, will it move the needle at all if, after the Senate finishes their little kangaroo court, we find out Trump ordered a hit on his own ambassador?

I would be okay with that.

Seriously? The man has his faults, but he's not a Clinton.

 

[Archies Ghost]

So, will it move the needle at all if, after the Senate finishes their little kangaroo court, we find out Trump ordered a hit on his own ambassador?

I would think an assassination conspiracy against a US ambassador might be something we could all agree would be grounds for removal from office.

Seeing that video as some sort of indication that an assassination was being discussed is also grounds for a removal of a different sort.

 

[TaylorB]

I would think an assassination conspiracy against a US ambassador might be something we could all agree would be grounds for removal from office.

Seeing that video as some sort of indication that an assassination was being discussed is also grounds for a removal of a different sort.

I don’t see the video as providing any proof that Trump ordered an assassination of Yovanovitch, but it does raise a lot of issues as noted in MT’s posts.

Best I can tell, Parnas and Fruman were being bankrolled by Dmytro Firtash, a Ukrainian oligarch with ties to Kremlin gas companies. The plot to oust Ambassador Yovanovitch seems to have existed at least in May 2018, long before the Zelensky-Burisma story started.

Parnas’ and Fruman’s comments at the dinner led me to believe that part of the agenda of whoever they were working for was to oust Yovanovitch, who might have been “in the way” for a number of reasons. I’ve seen speculation that Yovanovitch would have been an obstacle to Russian interests in the Ukrainian gas industry. There’s an angle to the Ukraine story involving its gas industry (Rick Perry, Naftogaz) that I wish I understood better. I don’t think Parnas was forthcoming in his interviews about everything he was tasked to do by Firtash. I also think Yovanovitch was in the way of the Burisma announcement plot, but the need to remove her is clearly much deeper than just that.

Even without speculating about their broader agenda, it’s crazy that two Russian mob-connected goons were secretly recording a private dinner with the president, and that the president seemed open to discussing sensitive issues of national concern with them. And with about 10 seconds of gossip, one of them was able to convince him to remove a US Ambassador from office. Trump repeatedly denied knowing these guys. Is it just another example of bad luck that Trump was caught on tape yucking it up with Russian mob-connected guys about ousting a US official? Which one is worse: (1) Trump knew who they were, and who they were working for, and repeatedly lied about it, or (2) Trump didn’t know who they were, who they were working for, etc. and he just took their statements at face value and discussed sensitive issues with them?

 

[dtc]

So, it’s getting hard to follow the corruption. From the snippet I heard this morning, this tape is from early 2018? If so, that probably puts it before the “get dirt on Joe Biden” timeline.

Trump is clearly already interested in Ukraine, though, so what’s his angle? Was Rudy at this small dinner party? Why is Lev Parnas smearing the US Ambassador? Why is Trump so receptive to the smear? Why does Trump sound like a bad Mafia movie boss?

Also, it should at least be noted that Trump completely lied when he claimed he didn’t know the two shady characters Lev and Igor. He not only knew them, he trusted Lev to the point that he made a snap decision to fire a well regarded US Ambassador. A career diplomat who has served well since Reagan was in office.

The speculation I saw involves Lev and Igor, and maybe Rudy as well, trying to make a corrupt natural gas deal in Ukraine, and Yovanovitch was blocking them, or insisting they must go through proper channels? Now that’s pure speculation, admittedly, but it makes as much sense as anything else at this point.

Remember, in the NPD handbook it tells them to accuse others of their own crimes and faults.

Seems like the plot to oust Yovanovitch has a deeper plot line than previously suspected.

Parnas needs to testify and so do a whole lot of other folks including Nunes.