Looming budget battle: Will the GOP force federal shutdown (3 Viewers)

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    superchuck500

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    Annual federal appropriations will lapse on September 30, 2023 - now less than a month away. After the debt-ceiling fight, many anticipated that the FY 2024 funding battle could see a federal government shutdown of some length as Republicans push for more budget cuts . . . and that was before Special Counsel Jack Smith's office filed two separate criminal prosecutions of Donald Trump. Desperate to hit back in any way they can, the MAGAs in Congress have already said they will attempt to de-fund the prosecution. Of course, the only way they could even attempt to do that would be to force a shutdown of the entire federal government, or at least the civilian executive agencies presuming a bill funding DOD could get through.

    It's hard to imagine that they won't try this, the questions are when will they try it and how much of the GOP goes along with the MAGAs (i.e. Freedom Caucus), particularly in the Senate where McConnell has already indicated no interest in such a gambit . . . though McConnell's health may eventually come into play. Would, for example, the Republicans agree to a continuing resolution to fund the government for several months to allow the time to get closer to the Trump federal trial dates before actually attempting a shutdown? (March 4 in DC and May 20 in Florida).

    One factor in play is that federal funding rules allow the Article III courts (which include the federal district and appellate courts) to continue operation in a shutdown and they also allow for federal agencies to continue with "excepted" activities that include, generally, federal criminal prosecutions. (See article below). This allowance, however, is not perpetual, it is funded by other sources that do eventually dry up - so eventually they would shut down. Hypothetically, but such a lengthy shutdown would be terribly detrimental to the economy and have substantial political damage for the party perceived to have caused it . . . in this case that wouldn't be much of a debate.

    For those reasons, I think the smarter GOP leaders, particularly in the Senate, will recognized that trying to use the budget as a tool to harm the Trump prosecutions is a fool's game: it's almost certain not to achieve that goal and it's to bring about substantial harm. But the MAGAs aren't as smart and given their wild allegiance to Trump, we can expect some sort of effort. At minimum it gives them an ability to say to their MAGA constituents that they tried to shutdown the prosecutions but were sold out by the RINOs in the Senate.

    Going to be an interesting showdown. I don't think I can recall a shutdown battle where actually shutting the government down so that it couldn't function was the objective rather than a tool for coercion. Crazy.



     
    I would like to hear an explanation from whoever wants to explain how writing bills in near secrecy, giving congress 30 minutes to read a 500 page bill before voting on it, not allowing votes for an ammendment is good for the country.
    Because despite what what you are being told to believe, that's not how any of that works and I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain the actual processes that goes into the structure of these omnibus bills. You just go on believing what you are being told to believe, which are hyperbolic lies, and I will continue believe what I have learned though actual laws and my understanding on the regulations which guides those laws.

    Edit: If I'm wrong, I accept that I failed on my own by not reading all of the regs governing those laws and I wasn't duped by others into failing.
     
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    Did he actually believe that is what happens? That's adorable.

    Oh he did and does. He has no real understanding of the legislative process nor the desire to understand, because it would then destroy his argument and angst.

    All he really would need to do is listen to Schoolhouse Rock "I'm just a Bill".
     
    Because despite what what you are being told to believe, that's not how any of that works and I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain the actual processes that goes into the structure of these omnibus bills. You just go on believing what you are being told to believe, which are hyperbolic lies, and I will continue believe what I have learned though actual laws and my understanding on the regulations which guides those laws.

    Edit: If I'm wrong, I accept that I failed on my own by not reading all of the regs governing those laws and I wasn't duped by others into failing.
    I'm wrong, but you don't have time to explain how it works. What a convenient excuse.
     
    I'm wrong, but you don't have time to explain how it works. What a convenient excuse.
    Honestly, if any of us thought you would ever take any of our rebuttals of your misinformation and/or propaganda seriously, we might be willing to spend the time necessary to do a thorough job.

    But you never acknowledge when you’re incorrect. You just drop the subject and move on to another piece of misinformation and/or propaganda. You are trying to tell us one minute that misinformation doesn’t exist when it comes to right wing sources and next minute you‘re posting YouTube videos of some guy claiming to expose how the media uses misinformation. And you do both these things with a blissful lack of self-awareness.

    How can we take you seriously? This is an honest question, BTW, I’m not trying to be snarky here. Do you just not see the disconnect? Like at all?
     
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    Here is the current state of play-

    Congress is out until Tuesday evening. Appropriations lapse overnight Saturday (at midnight on Sunday). McCarthy has indicated that his caucus will not advance a CR but will instead work on completing the 11 remaining individual funding bills - though he said they are targeting trying to get four done and then hopefully be able to move on a CR for the rest. Observers believe it is highly unlikely that the House will actually pass these funding bills.

    At the Senate, leadership for both parties likely to pass a CR that is clean or relatively clean (subject to the 1% discretionary spending reduction that was part of the debt ceiling agreement).

    Observers believe that a Senate CR will put McCarthy in a bind - because the Senate CR would likely pass the House if he brings it to vote (the Democrats and a number of moderate/practical GOP will support it), but putting forth a measure to be passed by Democrats and a small minority of GOP will likely "cost McCarthy his job as Speaker".
     
    Here is the current state of play-

    Congress is out until Tuesday evening. Appropriations lapse overnight Saturday (at midnight on Sunday). McCarthy has indicated that his caucus will not advance a CR but will instead work on completing the 11 remaining individual funding bills - though he said they are targeting trying to get four done and then hopefully be able to move on a CR for the rest. Observers believe it is highly unlikely that the House will actually pass these funding bills.

    At the Senate, leadership for both parties likely to pass a CR that is clean or relatively clean (subject to the 1% discretionary spending reduction that was part of the debt ceiling agreement).

    Observers believe that a Senate CR will put McCarthy in a bind - because the Senate CR would likely pass the House if he brings it to vote (the Democrats and a number of moderate/practical GOP will support it), but putting forth a measure to be passed by Democrats and a small minority of GOP will likely "cost McCarthy his job as Speaker".

    So McCarthy - either bring CR to vote, pass and lose job as speaker, but US govt avoids shutdown or cave to the MAGA Rs and retain speaker of the house but shutdown government for a handful of R nutjobs.

    I think the choice is really simple at this point. The question is does he have the gumption to do it. Denounce those idiots and pull some moderate Rs back toward him or continue this tack, which will further wedge the GOP moving forward to 2024.

    GOP created this monster and has lost all control of it.
     
    Because despite what what you are being told to believe, that's not how any of that works and I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain the actual processes that goes into the structure of these omnibus bills. You just go on believing what you are being told to believe, which are hyperbolic lies, and I will continue believe what I have learned though actual laws and my understanding on the regulations which guides those laws.

    Edit: If I'm wrong, I accept that I failed on my own by not reading all of the regs governing those laws and I wasn't duped by others into failing.

    An "omnibus" bill is simply a single, consolidated bill covering the 12 different spending bills that Congress is supposed to pass in the annual appropriations process. They're actually called "Consolidated Appropriations" bills and they are passed in the same manner that the individual bills would be passed (i.e. both sides of Congress, then a conference to resolve differences, then to the president). There's no secret or magic about them - they are simply a piece of legislation that must be passed and signed.

    But again, because Congress prefers to spend its time on splash hearings and investigations, they don't spend much time lawmaking or performing their keystone function of appropriating the budget. And then we end up in a situation where time has run out and one of three things happens: (1) a spending bill is passed, (2) a continuing resolution (CR) is passed, or (3) those elements of the federal government that run on annual appropriations and do not have other exemptions will shut down.

    Often a CR is used. But when there has been enough work on the budget to put it all in an omnibus bill, leadership will do that - after all, an appropriations bill is preferable to a CR that simply takes the previous year's spending and continues it. But the omnibus bill doesn't materialize out of nowhere - its contents have been circulating in various forms (typically in draft versions of the 12 appropriations bills that have been reviewed in committee) and typically passed by at least one of the houses before the final, last minute voting.

    It's completely false that massive omnibus spending bills are dropped out of nowhere on the House with 30 minutes to review and no votes for amendments. These bills have histories just like any other bill, they are available for review, amendment, etc. - you can look them up. It is true that the final push to get the bill signed and keep the government open comes from congressional leadership who make agreements between themselves to bring enough of their caucuses on-board to get the thing pushed through. This may include closure to amendments (there has typically been months or at least weeks to bring amendments). It may also be true that the final "version" doesn't get to the members until close to the time of the vote - and while this is not ideal, it's a product of the failure to take it up on the usual process. And it is also a complete fabrication to say the members haven't been able to determine what's in it because it has already been circulating in various forms for months.

    Here's the history on the 2023 omnibus bill. This is the same bill that Scalise decried as being 4,000 pages and dropped on them in the middle of the night with no ability to amend. Oh, but except that versions had already been passed in the House and the Senate, both of which with ability to amend. But it spends a lot of money and the fiscal "hardliners" (who have no problem with massive spending for their agenda) then cry foul and say they're trying to hold the line. It's all more of the same kind of misrepresentation of the process, on the basis of the constituency not knowing any better.

    12/29/2022Became Public Law No: 117-328.
    12/29/2022Signed by President.
    12/28/2022Presented to President.
    12/23/2022Resolving differences -- House actions: On motion that the House agree to the Senate amendment to the House amendment to the Senate amendment Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: 225 - 201, 1 Present (Roll no. 549).
    12/22/2022Resolving differences -- Senate actions: Senate concurred in the House amendment to Senate amendment SA 4 to H.R. 2617 with an amendment (SA 6552), under the order of 12/22/22, having achieved 60 votes in the affirmative, by Yea-Nay Vote. 68 - 29. Record Vote Number: 421.
    12/14/2022Resolving differences -- House actions: House agreed to Senate amendments numbered 1, 2, 3, and 5, and the House agreed to Senate amendment numbered 4 with an amendment pursuant to H. Res. 1518(consideration: CR H9745-9752; text: CR H9790-9803)
    11/15/2022Passed/agreed to in Senate: Passed Senate with amendments by Unanimous Consent.
    09/27/2022Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. Reported by Senator Peters with amendments. With written report No. 117-164.
    09/28/2021Passed/agreed to in House: On motion to suspend the rules and pass the bill, as amended Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 414 - 10 (Roll no. 304).(text: CR 7/26/2021 H3880)
    04/16/2021Introduced in House
     
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    I'm wrong, but you don't have time to explain how it works. What a convenient excuse.
    Why do you expect others to do the work for you? You make some ridiculous claim, then expect others to educate you. That is typical lazy MAGA thinking. You remind me about a guy that constantly spams me over email with ridiculous claims. He's a friend of the family, and he sends the emails BCC. I frequently educate him, but he's so dumb and lazy that he falls for anything his right wing sites tell him. He claims to hate Trump, but will vote for him anyway. I've told him that he should send the email addressees, because he is spreading miss-information, and I want to educate the group, not waste my time with his closed mind. It is people like him that are making America stupider every day.
     
    I wonder who will be blamed for the shutdown? Regardless of who gets blamed, it will hurt the economy, so the Republican game is to hurt the economy, and expect the majority of the effect to hurt the Democrats. Even a few years ago, people used to get enough real information that they would recognize who was truly causing the shutdown, and its effects, but with today's miss-information society, the Republicans may get rewarded.
     
    I wonder who will be blamed for the shutdown? Regardless of who gets blamed, it will hurt the economy, so the Republican game is to hurt the economy, and expect the majority of the effect to hurt the Democrats. Even a few years ago, people used to get enough real information that they would recognize who was truly causing the shutdown, and its effects, but with today's miss-information society, the Republicans may get rewarded.

    It’s pretty obvious and I think the public will easily agree that a shutdown would be appropriately placed on the GOP in the House - and McCarthy’s inability to lead them.

    That could change - the GOP could get their act together and send something to the Senate that the Senate GOP supports but the Democrats have to decline, shutting the government down. But I don’t think the House is going to change its tune and I don’t think the Democrats would force a shutdown even if the GOP somehow came into solidarity.

    I think odds are probably 50/50 right now, it may seem like a shutdown is coming but there’s always a strong last minute push that has to be accounted for. But if it does, I think everyone will know why.
     
    So yet again, these "budget hawk" Republicans aren't actually trying to cut spending across the board. They're always happy to increase funding for their agenda, but cry massive cuts are needed to everything else they can get their hands on.

    Here's McCarthy's position today. He also said he wants to just by-pass the Senate and meet with Biden to agree on a deal that funds the border so that "CBP agents don't come back bloody."

    Military construction and VA goes UP 4.8%
    DOD budget goes UP 2.2 percent
    DHS budget goes UP 3.9 percent

    Agriculture (incl. food for poor programs) DOWN 2 percent including pushing estimated 1 million households off of federal food aid

    State (foreign operations bill) DOWN 15 percent
    Education (Title I grant program based on economic need in schools) DOWN by 80 percent
    HUD: housing subsidies DOWN 30 percent, home heating support DOWN 70 percent



     
    So yet again, these "budget hawk" Republicans aren't actually trying to cut spending across the board. They're always happy to increase funding for their agenda, but cry massive cuts are needed to everything else they can get their hands on.

    Here's McCarthy's position today. He also said he wants to just by-pass the Senate and meet with Biden to agree on a deal that funds the border so that "CBP agents don't come back bloody."

    Military construction and VA goes UP 4.8%
    DOD budget goes UP 2.2 percent
    DHS budget goes UP 3.9 percent

    Agriculture (incl. food for poor programs) DOWN 2 percent including pushing estimated 1 million households off of federal food aid

    State (foreign operations bill) DOWN 15 percent
    Education (Title I grant program based on economic need in schools) DOWN by 80 percent
    HUD: housing subsidies DOWN 30 percent, home heating support DOWN 70 percent





    80% CUT from Title 1 Program?

    EIGHTY ?

    followed by HUD cut of 30%

    HOLY TARGET THE POOR BATMAN....how on Earth do these folks sleep at night?
     

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