Law be damned, Trump asserts unilateral control over executive branch, federal service (1 Viewer)

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    superchuck500

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    Following the Project 2025 playbook, in the last week, Trump and his newly installed loyalists have moved to (1) dismiss federal officials deemed unreliable to do his bidding (including 17 inspectors general) - many of which have protections from arbitrary dismissal, (2) freeze all science and public health activity until he can wrest full control, (3) freeze all federal assistance and grant activity deemed inconsistent with Trump's agenda, and (4) moved to terminate all federal employee telework and DEI programs.

    The problem is much of this is controlled by federal law and not subject to sudden and complete change by the president through executive order. Most notably is the Impoundment Control Act of 1974 that simply codifies what is the constitutional allocation of resources where Congress appropriates money to the executive branch for a specific purpose, the executive branch must carry out that statutory purpose. This is indeed a constitutional crisis and even if Congress abdicates to Trump by acquiescing, the courts must still apply the law - or rule it unconstitutional.

    And meanwhile the architect of much of this unlawful action is Russell Vought, Trump’s OMB nominee who the Senate appears ready to confirm.





     
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    So DOGE is read only and not changing things you say?

     
    “Today a delegation of US Representatives attempted to go into the US Dept of Education through the public entrance and were denied entry by a private security firm.”

    “The source told The Hill the individual blocking the door and denying members entry was with the Office of Security, Facilities and Logistics Services at the Department of Education.” So not private security.


    What I found weird was the Department of Homeland Security agents that were standing behind the closed door.

    Oh,yeah
    “Tom Krause, chief executive at Cloud Software Group who Elon Musk’s DOGE installed at Treasury last month, has been named the financial assistant secretary of the Treasury Department, making him the bureaucrat in charge of the government’s largest payment system, per The Washington Post.” so he is an employee.
     
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    You keep saying this like it's some meaningful or deep point and like it gives justification for anything Musk is doing. It isn't and it doesn't.

    Taking control of the payment system doesn't do anything to "take a look at government spending". All it does is allow Musk to committ unauthorized and illegal actions by a person with a huge conflict of interest. They aren't uncovering any fraud in the payment system. We already have many apparatus in government that do that effectively. They are illegally stopping payments (and closing down government department) that have been approved by both congressional and presidential authority.

    If they want to stop waste in government spending, the only way to do that legally is through congressional and executive action by passing bills through congress. I mean, as long as we still live in a Democratic Republic. I know the GOP and its voters want something else, but we're still supposed to be following the constitution.
    I can’t speak for others but I have not condoned or advocating anything outside the constitution or the law. If there is evidence to show this is being done in violation of the constitution or the law, then our democratic republic has legal constitutional processes in place to address such issues. I suggest the folks leveling accusations available themselves of those processes.
     
    “The source told The Hill the individual blocking the door and denying members entry was with the Office of Security, Facilities and Logistics Services at the Department of Education.” So not private security.


    What I found weird was the Department of Homeland Security agents that were standing behind the closed door.

    Oh,yeah
    “Tom Krause, chief executive at Cloud Software Group who Elon Musk’s DOGE installed at Treasury last month, has been named the financial assistant secretary of the Treasury Department, making him the bureaucrat in charge of the government’s largest payment system, per The Washington Post.” so he is an employee.
    But, the fact that the LAWMAKERS requested an emergency meeting, doesn't concern you is telling.

    A source familiar with the situation said the lawmakers went to the department after sending a letter Wednesday night requesting an emergency meeting with the acting Education secretary over those reports.

    The Democratic lawmakers wanted a meeting within 24 hours and decided to
    show up to the building Friday morning when they had not heard back from the agency by Thursday night...The lawmakers were not given a reason as to why they were not allowed to enter the building and left after a while.

    Strange, the Democratic lawmakers were practicing Democracy and their efforts were thwarted.

    “They’ve called armed federal officers to the scene. We aren’t dangerous. We are here to represent our people. To defend public education. This is an authoritarian regime. You cannot block members of Congress from entering the Department of Education,” Frost said in another post on X.

    Democrats on Thursday were also denied entry to the Environmental Protection Agency after attempting to meet with DOGE officials and the EPA administrator.

    “The protest was organized by members of Congress who were exercising their First Amendment rights, which they are at liberty to do. They did not have any scheduled appointments, and the protest has since ended,” a Department of Education spokesperson said.


    Do you find it, at least, a little bit curious that the DoED spokesman described the Democratic lawmakers actions as a protest?
     
    But, the fact that the LAWMAKERS requested an emergency meeting, doesn't concern you is telling.

    A source familiar with the situation said the lawmakers went to the department after sending a letter Wednesday night requesting an emergency meeting with the acting Education secretary over those reports.

    The Democratic lawmakers wanted a meeting within 24 hours and decided to
    show up to the building Friday morning when they had not heard back from the agency by Thursday night...The lawmakers were not given a reason as to why they were not allowed to enter the building and left after a while.

    Strange, the Democratic lawmakers were practicing Democracy and their efforts were thwarted.

    “They’ve called armed federal officers to the scene. We aren’t dangerous. We are here to represent our people. To defend public education. This is an authoritarian regime. You cannot block members of Congress from entering the Department of Education,” Frost said in another post on X.

    Democrats on Thursday were also denied entry to the Environmental Protection Agency after attempting to meet with DOGE officials and the EPA administrator.

    “The protest was organized by members of Congress who were exercising their First Amendment rights, which they are at liberty to do. They did not have any scheduled appointments, and the protest has since ended,” a Department of Education spokesperson said.


    Do you find it, at least, a little bit curious that the DoED spokesman described the Democratic lawmakers actions as a protest?

    Sendai is all about trying to argue pendantic points and ignoring the overall conversation. He usually ends up wrong on his pendantic point as well.
     
    so he is an employee.
    After the fact. They are covering their arses.

    That still doesn’t excuse the kids that are roaming around free range through everything.

    What difference does it make to you whether the security guard who denied the US Reps entry was private or not? And why do you automatically believe an anonymous source for that?

    What I want to know is what basis were they denied entry? It was reportedly a public entrance.
     
    I can’t speak for others but I have not condoned or advocating anything outside the constitution or the law. If there is evidence to show this is being done in violation of the constitution or the law, then our democratic republic has legal constitutional processes in place to address such issues. I suggest the folks leveling accusations available themselves of those processes.
    If there is evidence? They are deleting and/or hiding websites for public agencies that were established by Congress. They have no right to do that. There are 18-23 year old kids who are employees of Musk gaining access to critical government computer systems. They haven’t been vetted nor investigated for possible national security vulnerabilities. Musk himself is claiming to be stopping payments in the government systems. Musk himself is claiming to be deleting entire departments of government, which were established by legislation. The Executive branch has no right to do that.

    Congress is abdicating their oversight responsibilities. Except for a few democrats, who don’t have the power to do anything about it. The GOP is a complete disaster here. Not even a strongly worded letter at this point.
     
    If there is evidence? They are deleting and/or hiding websites for public agencies that were established by Congress. They have no right to do that. There are 18-23 year old kids who are employees of Musk gaining access to critical government computer systems. They haven’t been vetted nor investigated for possible national security vulnerabilities. Musk himself is claiming to be stopping payments in the government systems. Musk himself is claiming to be deleting entire departments of government, which were established by legislation. The Executive branch has no right to do that.

    Congress is abdicating their oversight responsibilities. Except for a few democrats, who don’t have the power to do anything about it. The GOP is a complete disaster here. Not even a strongly worded letter at this point.
    Yeah, the Republicans in Congress don't have a leg to stand on and have absolutely no credibility until they question and put a stop to this egregious usurpation of power.

    They're spineless and don't give two sheets about the rule of law. And I'll continue to think that until they actually do something meaningful.
     
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    If there is evidence? They are deleting and/or hiding websites for public agencies that were established by Congress. They have no right to do that. There are 18-23 year old kids who are employees of Musk gaining access to critical government computer systems. They haven’t been vetted nor investigated for possible national security vulnerabilities. Musk himself is claiming to be stopping payments in the government systems. Musk himself is claiming to be deleting entire departments of government, which were established by legislation. The Executive branch has no right to do that.

    Congress is abdicating their oversight responsibilities. Except for a few democrats, who don’t have the power to do anything about it. The GOP is a complete disaster here. Not even a strongly worded letter at this point.
    Yeah. I heard you. Do you have anyone with firsthand knowledge of such things willing to give a sworn statement? Or are you going to go to court and tell the judge you read it on the internet?

    The opposition has to do its own independent investigation and gather its own evidence. Otherwise all you have are allegations and no proof.
     
    Yeah. I heard you. Do you have anyone with firsthand knowledge of such things willing to give a sworn statement? Or are you going to go to court and tell the judge you read it on the internet?

    The opposition has to do its own independent investigation and gather its own evidence. Otherwise all you have are allegations and no proof.
    Websites are disappearing and Musk is saying himself that they are changing things. A delegation of Democratic Reps were denied entry to 2 different agencies that are open to the public. A letter from them requesting an emergency briefing has been ignored. This was recorded, you can watch them being denied access to a public building.

    To say there is no proof at this point that things are not being done according to the law is not reasonable.

    Do we need more proof, of course. But the administration is obstructing that, and the GOP has their heads up their collective butts. But we know enough to say there are bad things happening.
     
    I would like Sendai and Joe to do a little thought experiment. Imagine this was Biden’s Administration sending in kids without vetting them and giving them access to all of our payment information. Hell. It was just reported today that one of the kids was recently fired from a job for divulging confidential information.

    Denying GOP reps an emergency meeting to discuss what’s happening. Making websites disappear and claiming entire departments which were established by Congressional action no longer exist.

    You would both be up in arms and extremely concerned. I would be too. I don’t care for these types of actions no matter which party is doing them.

    Hell, if Biden had done any of this, MAGA would be rioting in front of the White House by now.
     
    Websites are disappearing and Musk is saying himself that they are changing things. A delegation of Democratic Reps were denied entry to 2 different agencies that are open to the public. A letter from them requesting an emergency briefing has been ignored. This was recorded, you can watch them being denied access to a public building.

    To say there is no proof at this point that things are not being done according to the law is not reasonable.

    Do we need more proof, of course. But the administration is obstructing that, and the GOP has their heads up their collective butts. But we know enough to say there are bad things happening.

    Tampajoe just another indepedent guy asking innocent questions. All of the MAGA types from TJ, Sendai, etc had no idea what the Dept of Education did until that part the thread. You should go educate yourself on what the CFPB does.

     
    Websites are disappearing and Musk is saying himself that they are changing things. A delegation of Democratic Reps were denied entry to 2 different agencies that are open to the public. A letter from them requesting an emergency briefing has been ignored. This was recorded, you can watch them being denied access to a public building.

    To say there is no proof at this point that things are not being done according to the law is not reasonable.

    Do we need more proof, of course. But the administration is obstructing that, and the GOP has their heads up their collective butts. But we know enough to say there are bad things happening.
    You have allegations. They may be true. Are they illegal? I don’t know. Denying congress critters access to executive branch agencies may be wrong but is it illegal. It’s not the first time it’s happened.

    The sad thing is about all this is that the Democrats circle the wagons when they are in power. They play the same games. Now the shoe is on the other foot. So the Democrats have the same options as Republicans did when they were in the minority. It’s unrealistic to expect either party to set aside politics and investigate itself objectively and impartially. You almost have to go to court.

    There is no shame in politics in either party. Hasn’t been for quite a while.
     
    I don't care to every have a conversation with this dude, but I'm going to break down just how much in bad faith every single conversation with him is. I also don't believe him, when he says he didn't vote for Trump. Who spends days of their life defending an adminstration they didn't vote for?

    You have allegations.

    I posted Elon giving his 15 year old kiss off for the CFPB as he took it down.
    They may be true. Are they illegal? I don’t know. Denying congress critters access to executive branch agencies may be wrong but is it illegal. It’s not the first time it’s happened.

    Notice how he tries to dehumanize Congress.
    The sad thing is about all this is that the Democrats circle the wagons when they are in power. They play the same games. Now the shoe is on the other foot. So the Democrats have the same options as Republicans did when they were in the minority. It’s unrealistic to expect either party to set aside politics and investigate itself objectively and impartially. You almost have to go to court.

    This has never happened. This is such a shallow attempt at both siding. The normal defense of "Democrats do it too" doesn't work.

    There is no shame in politics in either party. Hasn’t been for quite a while.

    Again, both siding to minimize, and run defense for Republicans.

    This is in the backdrop of Democrats forcing their presidential nominee step down. Al Fraken, Eliot Spitzer, and Anthony Weiner all stepped down for scandals that pale when compared to Trump.

    Republicans need to own what they are, and stop dragging down Democrats. You need to learn to manage your own hypocrisy, or simply stop critiquing Democrats.
     
    This is actually the auto-play video on Ezra Klein's youtube page. I think it details exactly what is happening. It's why Republicans announce stuff like the Kennedy center.

     
    You have allegations. They may be true. Are they illegal? I don’t know. Denying congress critters access to executive branch agencies may be wrong but is it illegal. It’s not the first time it’s happened.

    The sad thing is about all this is that the Democrats circle the wagons when they are in power. They play the same games. Now the shoe is on the other foot. So the Democrats have the same options as Republicans did when they were in the minority. It’s unrealistic to expect either party to set aside politics and investigate itself objectively and impartially. You almost have to go to court.

    There is no shame in politics in either party. Hasn’t been for quite a while.

    You have repeatedly claimed to support oversight and transparency. Now, when faced with evidence of congressional Democrats trying to shed some light on what is happening, you fall back on, "but is it illegal"? Who gives a damn whether or not it's illegal. When something as massive and unprecedented as this is happening, we should all be demanding the utmost transparency and oversight. You pay lip service, but when push comes to shove, you demonstrate that you actually don't care.
     

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