Law be damned, Trump asserts unilateral control over executive branch, federal service (7 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Following the Project 2025 playbook, in the last week, Trump and his newly installed loyalists have moved to (1) dismiss federal officials deemed unreliable to do his bidding (including 17 inspectors general) - many of which have protections from arbitrary dismissal, (2) freeze all science and public health activity until he can wrest full control, (3) freeze all federal assistance and grant activity deemed inconsistent with Trump's agenda, and (4) moved to terminate all federal employee telework and DEI programs.

The problem is much of this is controlled by federal law and not subject to sudden and complete change by the president through executive order. Most notably is the Impoundment Control Act of 1974 that simply codifies what is the constitutional allocation of resources where Congress appropriates money to the executive branch for a specific purpose, the executive branch must carry out that statutory purpose. This is indeed a constitutional crisis and even if Congress abdicates to Trump by acquiescing, the courts must still apply the law - or rule it unconstitutional.

And meanwhile the architect of much of this unlawful action is Russell Vought, Trump’s OMB nominee who the Senate appears ready to confirm.

120. The Impoundment Crisis of 2025

The Trump administration's Monday spending freeze is likely to provoke a crisis over the constitutionality of "impoundment"—one that the justices could well have to resolve *very* soon.

www.stevevladeck.com

 

[TampaJoe]

We have been presenting reasonable objections - the young guys haven’t been vetted or investigated, there are massive conflicts of interest when Musk has all this access to his competitor’s information, Musk himself boasted that he canceled payments to a Lutheran Charity in retaliation.

Musk has also just publicly called for the WSJ reporter who discovered his young guy’s racist past to be fired. If he is a special government employee, that violates the First Amendment.

And yet, you and Sendai are still defending this as somehow normal. What would it take for you to be concerned about what is happening?

There is nothing normal about this. I never said that. I have never heard of anyone outside of government doing this kind of deep dive into govt spending. I happens from time to time in industry. The complaints you hear are pretty much the same.

 

[DaveXA]

I acknowledge we are 36 trillion in debt and counting. I acknowledge that Medicare and Medicaid need to be funded. I don’t think you know what you are talking about. I don’t care who you work for. I know we can’t keep doing what we are doing. The numbers don’t work.

You just refuse to acknowledge that.

I have acknowledged all of that (maybe not in this thread, but definitely in this forum, multiple times), but you aren't listening or paying attention.

And obviously you don't care who I work for. Seems you'd rather follow an idiot than an expert.

My point stands.

 

[TampaJoe]

I have acknowledged all of that (maybe not in this thread, but definitely in this forum, multiple times), but you aren't listening or paying attention.

And obviously you don't care who I work for. Seems you'd rather follow an idiot than an expert.

My point stands.

I’m not much or a follower. Period.

And if you feel the need to tell me you are some kind of expert, you probably aren’t.

 

[RobF]

I’m not much or a follower. Period.

Yeah, you do seem to have trouble following discussions, points, questions with answers...

As for "look at all the debt, something must be done," that is, a) actually quite debatable, and b) not even remotely an argument that anything must be done, or that what is currently happening should be done.

And no, this isn't something that "happens from time to time in industry" either. The analogy doesn't even begin to hold up. Government isn't industry. This is unprecedented.

 

[MT15]

There is nothing normal about this. I never said that. I have never heard of anyone outside of government doing this kind of deep dive into govt spending. I happens from time to time in industry. The complaints you hear are pretty much the same.

I don’t believe you. What you are saying is that in industry it happens all the time that people are given access to records without being vetted by anyone? That it happens all the time that people who are conducting what you call a deep dive are competitors with some of the accounts being accessed?

You are still minimizing the ethical and legal issues here. Why?

 

[MT15]

From Wired:

“Members of Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team have had access to the US Treasury Department’s payment systems for over a week. On Thursday, the threat intelligence team at one of the department's agencies recommended that DOGE membersbe monitored as an “insider threat.”

Sources say members of the Bureau of the Fiscal Service’s IT division and others received an email detailing these concerns.”

A US Treasury Threat Intelligence Analysis Designates DOGE Staff as ‘Insider Threat’

An internal email reviewed by WIRED calls DOGE staff's access to federal payments systems “the single biggest insider threat risk the Bureau of the Fiscal Service has ever faced.”

www.wired.com

 

[MT15]

Also from the article, naming the actual systems they have accessed with read and write privileges.

“Although Treasury and White House officials have repeatedly denied it, WIRED has reported that DOGE technologists had the ability to not only read the code of sensitive payment systems but also rewrite it. Marko Elez, one of a number of young men identified by WIRED who have little to no government experience but are associated with DOGE, was granted read and write privileges on two of the most sensitive systems in the US government: the Payment Automation Manager and Secure Payment System at the BFS, an agency that according to Treasury records paid out $5.45 trillion in fiscal year 2024.

“There is reporting at other federal agencies indicating that DOGE members have performed unauthorized changes and locked civil servants out of the sensitive systems they gained access to,” the “Recommendations” portion of the email continues. “We further recommend that DOGE members be placed under insider threat monitoring and alerting after their access to payment systems is revoked. Continued access to any payment systems by DOGE members, even ‘read only,’ likely poses the single greatest insider threat risk the Bureau of the Fiscal Service has ever faced.””

 

[MT15]

 

[TampaJoe]

I don’t believe you. What you are saying is that in industry it happens all the time that people are given access to records without being vetted by anyone? That it happens all the time that people who are conducting what you call a deep dive are competitors with some of the accounts being accessed?

You are still minimizing the ethical and legal issues here. Why?

You misrepresent my post. You are prone to do that. Happens from time to time doesn’t not equate to “all the time”. Never said people shouldn’t be vetted. I said the opposite. You have some reading comprehension issues. So if you exaggerate what I post here why should I believe you are anymore accurate about anything else?

That said. I’m not sure what you expect to happen here. Folks can and will sue so the courts will get involved and we will get people on the record under oath. Or maybe reasonable people will agree to congressional oversight. Who knows. I highly doubt the Trump or Musk will back off. I get some folks are upset and concerned but fact is that a great many people believe it’s high time someone took a look a look at govt spending.

As to what you choose to believe. That isn’t up to me. Believe who and what you choose. Makes not difference to me.

 

[MT15]

You misrepresent my post.

No, I don’t think so. You said exactly this, bolding mine:

There is nothing normal about this. I never said that. I have never heard of anyone outside of government doing this kind of deep dive into govt spending. I happens from time to time in industry. The complaints you hear are pretty much the same.

So talking about what is happening with DOGE you said - it happens in industry and the complaints are pretty much the same. So that would mean that the ethical and conflict of interest issues are nothing out of the ordinary to you? Correct?

What we see here is you talking out of both sides of your mouth. You imply above that the only thing abnormal is that it is happening in government, but it happens in industry with similar complaints.

You are minimizing the legal and ethical issues here. I don’t know why.

 

[DaveXA]

I’m not much or a follower. Period.

I don't believe that for a second.

And if you feel the need to tell me you are some kind of expert, you probably aren’t.

I didn't claim to be. Reading is hard I guess.

 

[MT15]

Evidently companies with government contracts are receiving an email asking them to fill out a form attesting to the fact that they do not use any DEI initiatives. If they refuse, they will not be able to do business with the Federal Government. This doesn’t seem legal to me. The first line says - because of changes in the law - there have been no legislative moves have there?

 

[DaveXA]

Evidently companies with government contracts are receiving an email asking them to fill out a form attesting to the fact that they do not use any DEI initiatives. If they refuse, they will not be able to do business with the Federal Government. This doesn’t seem legal to me. The first line says - because of changes in the law - there have been no legislative moves have there?

So, purity tests are in now? What's next, branding? And I don't mean the advertising kind.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Evidently companies with government contracts are receiving an email asking them to fill out a form attesting to the fact that they do not use any DEI initiatives. If they refuse, they will not be able to do business with the Federal Government. This doesn’t seem legal to me. The first line says - because of changes in the law - there have been no legislative moves have there?

I thought GOP was against telling private business what to do with their own businesses

 

[superchuck500]

 

[DaveXA]

How we elected this idiot completely escapes me. Dude is a certified narcissist.

 

[superchuck500]

Musk claims to have killed another agency - this time the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

 

[TampaJoe]

No, I don’t think so. You said exactly this, bolding mine:



So talking about what is happening with DOGE you said - it happens in industry and the complaints are pretty much the same. So that would mean that the ethical and conflict of interest issues are nothing out of the ordinary to you? Correct?

What we see here is you talking out of both sides of your mouth. You imply above that the only thing abnormal is that it is happening in government, but it happens in industry with similar complaints.

You are minimizing the legal and ethical issues here. I don’t know why.

What we see here is your failure in reading comprehension. From time to time is not “all the time”. And I said that ethical complaints or conflict of interest complaints were either normal or happened all the time. So either you have trouble reading or you are deliberately distorting what I post.

Having done this sort of work as a professional representing both debtors and creditors and working from the inside, I can tell you from experience what gets reported in the press and on the internet is often inaccurate. I have seen it more than once. So until you start getting people on the record under oath, I view much of this as heresay and unreliable. I don’t minimize anything but if you distort what I post why should I believe you would be anymore accurate on anything else?