Law be damned, Trump asserts unilateral control over executive branch, federal service (6 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Following the Project 2025 playbook, in the last week, Trump and his newly installed loyalists have moved to (1) dismiss federal officials deemed unreliable to do his bidding (including 17 inspectors general) - many of which have protections from arbitrary dismissal, (2) freeze all science and public health activity until he can wrest full control, (3) freeze all federal assistance and grant activity deemed inconsistent with Trump's agenda, and (4) moved to terminate all federal employee telework and DEI programs.

The problem is much of this is controlled by federal law and not subject to sudden and complete change by the president through executive order. Most notably is the Impoundment Control Act of 1974 that simply codifies what is the constitutional allocation of resources where Congress appropriates money to the executive branch for a specific purpose, the executive branch must carry out that statutory purpose. This is indeed a constitutional crisis and even if Congress abdicates to Trump by acquiescing, the courts must still apply the law - or rule it unconstitutional.

And meanwhile the architect of much of this unlawful action is Russell Vought, Trump’s OMB nominee who the Senate appears ready to confirm.

120. The Impoundment Crisis of 2025

The Trump administration's Monday spending freeze is likely to provoke a crisis over the constitutionality of "impoundment"—one that the justices could well have to resolve *very* soon.

www.stevevladeck.com

 

[cuddlemonkey]

As I said, I have NO problem with someone questioning government spending. I have NO problem with it being done by someone outside of government. I DO think that Congress has oversight responsibility over the process so I have NO problem with Musk testifying under oath as to the process and the controls around the process.

I have done this kind of work in business. Rarely is it done where the folks who benefit from the process under the microscope don’t raise some objections. It is unnerving to have someone question what you do. But it needs to be done.

Yet the party you support and vote for is the one abdicating their duties to perform this oversight, and you are still in here carrying water for them. You are either the single most clueless person in the country or you are a liar. There is no other option.

 

[TampaJoe]

I don't believe that for a second.

I didn't claim to be. Reading is hard I guess.

This is your post word for word.

“And obviously you don't care who I work for. Seems you'd rather follow an idiot than an expert.”

So which are you? If I misinterpreted this comment I withdraw my remark. I’m not sure what you meant and now I no longer care.

 

[Sendai]

We have been presenting reasonable objections - the young guys haven’t been vetted or investigated, there are massive conflicts of interest when Musk has all this access to his competitor’s information, Musk himself boasted that he canceled payments to a Lutheran Charity in retaliation.

Musk has also just publicly called for the WSJ reporter who discovered his young guy’s racist past to be fired. If he is a special government employee, that violates the First Amendment.

And yet, you and Sendai are still defending this as somehow normal. What would it take for you to be concerned about what is happening?

I’m not defending this as normal. First time I’ve seen anything like this. I’ve yet to see anything that says it’s not permitted and I’m curious as to what this deep dive will yield.

A reply to Ron Widen from Treasury.

https://prod-i.a.dj.com/public/resources/documents/treasury-doge-letter-02-04-2024.pdf

Seems that there is vetting.

 

[DaveXA]

This is your post word for word.

“And obviously you don't care who I work for. Seems you'd rather follow an idiot than an expert.”

So which are you? If I misinterpreted this comment I withdraw my remark. I’m not sure what you meant and now I no longer care.

You misinterpreted my comment. The experts I was referring to just a few posts earlier are the people I work with who are in positions of oversight. You know, the ones who take their jobs seriously.

But since you no longer care...

 

[TampaJoe]

I’m not defending this as normal. First time I’ve seen anything like this. I’ve yet to see anything that says it’s not permitted and I’m curious as to what this deep dive will yield.

A reply to Ron Widen from Treasury.

https://prod-i.a.dj.com/public/resources/documents/treasury-doge-letter-02-04-2024.pdf

Seems that there is vetting.

Sounds about right. Still I have no problem with people questioning the process. I still think testimony and oversight by the legislature is warranted. If someone has evidence to the contrary, perhaps they should obtain sworn affidavits and present evidence to the appropriate committee or under the whistleblower statutes.

 

[DaveXA]

Sounds about right. Still I have no problem with people questioning the process. I still think testimony and oversight by the legislature is warranted. If someone has evidence to the contrary, perhaps they should obtain sworn affidavits and present evidence to the appropriate committee or under the whistleblower statutes.

We don't agree on much, but I'm with you that we all should be questioning the process. This is unprecedented, and to have the richest person in the world, a ketamine addict and a bigger narcissist than Trump running around from agency to agency under the guise of DOGE should make everyone, regardless of conservative or liberal very nervous.

Someone with that kind of power along with the power of the President behind him makes pushing back very risky. You're putting your career and even life on the line by exposing what would be a perceived threat to their power.

 

[MT15]

What we see here is your failure in reading comprehension. From time to time is not “all the time”. And I said that ethical complaints or conflict of interest complaints were either normal or happened all the time. So either you have trouble reading or you are deliberately distorting what I post.

Having done this sort of work as a professional representing both debtors and creditors and working from the inside, I can tell you from experience what gets reported in the press and on the internet is often inaccurate. I have seen it more than once. So until you start getting people on the record under oath, I view much of this as heresay and unreliable. I don’t minimize anything but if you distort what I post why should I believe you would be anymore accurate on anything else?

Because I provide links and quotes.

So you are telling me that in the business world, when a company has an audit - they hire an outside firm to look at their books - they hire people without vetting them, people with ethical issues or a conflict of interest such as ownership of direct competitors?

I don’t believe you. You will need to provide me an example of this happening. Otherwise, IMO, you’re just minimizing what is going on.

For example - agencies created by legislation cannot be closed by executive decree, the way I understand it. This is an egregious overstep in authority. But in this case we don’t even have executive decree - just an unelected billionaire and flunkies who are unvetted and could quite possibly be national security risks - doing whatever the hell they want to do, law be damned.

Quit pretending this is merely some sort of audit and that any rules are being followed.

 

[MT15]

I’m not defending this as normal. First time I’ve seen anything like this. I’ve yet to see anything that says it’s not permitted and I’m curious as to what this deep dive will yield.

A reply to Ron Widen from Treasury.

https://prod-i.a.dj.com/public/resources/documents/treasury-doge-letter-02-04-2024.pdf

Seems that there is vetting.

Krause is not a veteran Treasury employee - he’s a Musk person and just got designated this week. The racist kid and others who have been identified are not vetted.

I don’t believe what this Deputy Assistant Secretary says. Have no idea who he is. Meanwhile we have first hand knowledge on this board that payments are being delayed. I see the posts from people who have small businesses that their payments are being delayed. Musk has specifically claimed to have cut off money to a Lutheran charity organization.

As people have pointed out - the agencies all disclose their budgets. There isn’t anything there that wouldn’t be in the public realm. It certainly didn’t require sending Musk stooges into the agencies and seizing control of systems.

It certainly seems unconstitutional for Musk or whoever to shut down federal agencies established by Congress. Today a delegation of US Representatives attempted to go into the US Dept of Education through the public entrance and were denied entry by a private security firm. When one of the representatives tweeted that they were kept out, Musk replied that “No such federal agency exists”.

This isn’t some sort of audit done by any type of rules or regulations. This is a seizure of parts of ghe federal government by an unelected oligarch. We all need to quit acting like there is anything normal about this, and quit pretending they are doing anything by law or by the Constitution.

 

[Optimus Prime]

FORT MEADE, Md. — Late last week, a national museum literally papered over history.

Responding to President Trump's order that terminated diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) initiatives across the federal government, the National Cryptologic Museum taped sheets of paper over plaques that celebrate women and people of color who had served the National Security Agency, which intercepts overseas conversations and breaks foreign government codes.

The honorees are described as "Trailblazers in U.S. Cryptologic History," and the plaques hang in the museum's Hall of Honor.

When Larry Pfeiffer, who spent two decades at the NSA, saw an image online showing the plaques covered with brown paper, he was stunned.

"My jaw dropped, my eyes bulged," said Pfeiffer, "like one of those Warner Brothers' cartoons."

He reposted the picture, as did retired Gen. Michael Hayden, who had served as NSA director for six years under presidents of both parties.

Many former NSA workers were furious. The museum uncovered the plaques and said Sunday on X that it had made a mistake.

But Pfeiffer and dozens of NSA retirees weren't satisfied. On Monday morning, they went to the museum outside Washington, D.C., to find out what had happened. Rob Johnson, who said he had worked for the agency for more than half a century, told the public relations staff at the museum that he was appalled.

"As much as this administration eschews truth and honesty, it is important that we not allow it to erase history," Johnson said.

Helen Adams was angry, too.

"Didn't somebody say, 'Oh my God, that's wrong?' " she asked.

Adams' late husband, Ralph, was executive director of the NSA. Ralph Adams was also Black. Although his face wasn't among those obscured, Helen Adams took the decision to cover up other NSA honorees personally.

In a phone interview, NSA Executive Director Sheila Thomas — the No. 3 person in the agency — told NPR that papering over the exhibits was a mistake.

"There was absolutely never an intention to cover up parts of our history," said Thomas, who was at the museum to greet the retirees and has worked at the NSA for just over four decades. "As soon as we became aware [of it], we said, 'Oh, that was not what was intended.' "............

NSA museum covered plaques honoring women and people of color, provoking an uproar​

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/05/nx-s1-5286299/nsa-museum-dei-exhibit-women-people-of-color-trump

The U.S. Army Women’s Museum has covered a storyboard honoring the history of transgender soldiers in the wake of PresidentDonald Trump’s anti-DEI push.

The display is the only one of its kind in a system of 30 Army museums and discusses the history of transgender soldiers in the military branch.

On Tuesday, it was shielded from public view using brown paper, which was later changed out for a layer of black plastic, a spokesperson for the museum told The Independent. The order came from the Center of Military History to ensure the museum’s contents complied with the president’s executive order on diversity, equity and inclusion.

Officials at the museum in Fort Gregg-Adams, Virginia are waiting for guidance as to whether the section of the storyboard can be shown or needs to be removed indefinitely. The Independent emailed the Center of Military History for additional information.

Earlier in the week, pictures circulating on social media showed the National Cryptologic Museum had also concealed plaques celebrating women and people of color who had served the National Security Agency in response to the order.

The Army museum’s display features a photo of Army Captain Jennifer Peace, one of the first openly trans Army officers, on top of the written history of transgender service members. Peace is one of roughly 15,000 transgender soldiers currently serving in the military.……

Army museum covers display honoring transgender soldiers

Officials are waiting for guidance as to whether the section on transgender soldiers needs to be removed indefinitely

www.independent.co.uk

 

[bird]

The U.S. Army Women’s Museum has covered a storyboard honoring the history of transgender soldiers in the wake of PresidentDonald Trump’s anti-DEI push.

The display is the only one of its kind in a system of 30 Army museums and discusses the history of transgender soldiers in the military branch.

On Tuesday, it was shielded from public view using brown paper, which was later changed out for a layer of black plastic, a spokesperson for the museum told The Independent. The order came from the Center of Military History to ensure the museum’s contents complied with the president’s executive order on diversity, equity and inclusion.

Officials at the museum in Fort Gregg-Adams, Virginia are waiting for guidance as to whether the section of the storyboard can be shown or needs to be removed indefinitely. The Independent emailed the Center of Military History for additional information.

Earlier in the week, pictures circulating on social media showed the National Cryptologic Museum had also concealed plaques celebrating women and people of color who had served the National Security Agency in response to the order.

The Army museum’s display features a photo of Army Captain Jennifer Peace, one of the first openly trans Army officers, on top of the written history of transgender service members. Peace is one of roughly 15,000 transgender soldiers currently serving in the military.……

Army museum covers display honoring transgender soldiers

Officials are waiting for guidance as to whether the section on transgender soldiers needs to be removed indefinitely

www.independent.co.uk

Interesting as the Adams in Fort Gregg-Adams is Charity Adams, a Black women part of whose story is to in the movie Six Triple Eight. One wonders when the base will be renamed for some mediocre White Confedrate traitor.

 

[Optimus Prime]

For the federal workers struggling to decide whether to take the Trump administration’s deferred resignation program, a Massachusetts federal judge’s order to delay the Thursday night deadline was a reprieve — a chance to take a few more days to weigh a life-altering offer to leave their jobs with pay through Sept. 30.


But for some of the tens of thousands of federal employees who have already accepted the deal, the Thursday afternoon ruling in a lawsuit seeking to nullify the program brought confusion about their status, regret that they’d jumped at the offer too quickly, questions about whether to try to take back the decision or fear that if the program is ultimately thrown out, they now had a target on their backs.


“They have this list of people who resigned,” said an employee of the Office of Personnel Management — the agency administrating the program — who had emailed her resignation notice before the judge’s ruling and requested anonymity for fear of professional retribution. “That’s an easy list of people to get rid of.”……..

Federal workers who took Trump buyout feel fear, regret after judge’s order

 

[TampaJoe]

Because I provide links and quotes.

So you are telling me that in the business world, when a company has an audit - they hire an outside firm to look at their books - they hire people without vetting them, people with ethical issues or a conflict of interest such as ownership of direct competitors?

I don’t believe you. You will need to provide me an example of this happening. Otherwise, IMO, you’re just minimizing what is going on.

For example - agencies created by legislation cannot be closed by executive decree, the way I understand it. This is an egregious overstep in authority. But in this case we don’t even have executive decree - just an unelected billionaire and flunkies who are unvetted and could quite possibly be national security risks - doing whatever the hell they want to do, law be damned.

Quit pretending this is merely some sort of audit and that any rules are being followed.

Again, show me where I said businesses hire external audits withiut regard to ethical standards. In fact there’s a whole body of standards applicable to external audits. States have laws and licensing requirements for CPA’s. I don’t expect you to know that but the point is that I would never make such a statement.

Companies do hire external auditors all the time. They are required to do so if they report to the SEC. Many lenders and creditors require independent audits. Why? Because they don’t rely solely on internal audit or experts. They want an independent opinion.

So I don’t minimize ethical standards including conflicts of interest. I have lived and worked under those standards everyday for 40 years. In the accounting world, there are ways to report such violation of standards to regulatory agencies and law enforcement. If there are such violations at DOGE, I suggest they collect sworn statements from witnesses and follow the process.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Again, show me where I said businesses hire external audits withiut regard to ethical standards. In fact there’s a whole body of standards applicable to external audits. States have laws and licensing requirements for CPA’s. I don’t expect you to know that but the point is that I would never make such a statement.

Companies do hire external auditors all the time. They are required to do so if they report to the SEC. Many lenders and creditors require independent audits. Why? Because they don’t rely solely on internal audit or experts. They want an independent opinion.

So I don’t minimize ethical standards including conflicts of interest. I have lived and worked under those standards everyday for 40 years. In the accounting world, there are ways to report such violation of standards to regulatory agencies and law enforcement. If there are such violations at DOGE, I suggest they collect sworn statements from witnesses and follow the process.

The party controlling the process has already demonstrated their desire to abdicate responsibility. You are living in a fantasy world, Joe.

 

[Incumbent]

I’m not defending this as normal. First time I’ve seen anything like this. I’ve yet to see anything that says it’s not permitted and I’m curious as to what this deep dive will yield.

A reply to Ron Widen from Treasury.

https://prod-i.a.dj.com/public/resources/documents/treasury-doge-letter-02-04-2024.pdf

Seems that there is vetting.

Is there, though? Assuming this report is true, how good is the vetting?

Musk’s DOGE teen was fired by cybersecurity firm for leaking company secrets

Edward Coristine, a 19-year-old member of Elon Musk’s squad was fired from an internship after he was accused of sharing information with a competitor.

fortune.com

 

[coldseat]

CHICAGO (AP) — Shortly after he was confirmed as President Donald Trump’s transportation secretary, Sean Duffy circulated a memo that instructed his department to prioritize families by, among other things, giving preference to communities with marriage and birth rates higher than the national average when awarding grants.

Connecticut Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal called the directive last week “deeply frightening," and Washington Democratic Sen. Patty Murray called it “disturbingly dystopian.”

The memo also calls for prohibiting governments that get Department of Transportation funds from imposing vaccine and mask mandates, and requiring their cooperation with the administration’s immigration enforcement efforts.

With hundreds of billions of dollars in transportation money still unspent from the 2021 bipartisan infrastructure law, such changes could be a boon for projects in Republican-majority states, which on average have higher fertility rates than those leaning Democratic.

States controlled by Democrats were generally more receptive to mask and vaccine rules to combat the COVID-19 pandemic and have been more resistant to Trump’s immigration raids.

All administrations set their own rules for choosing which transportation projects to prioritize. But some of Duffy's directives were received as highly unusual.

“Distributing transportation funding based marriage and birth rates is bizarre and a little creepy," said Kevin DeGood, senior director of infrastructure and housing policy at the left-leaning Center for American Progress. "States and regions with aging populations tend, on average, to have lower birth rates ... Are they somehow not deserving of transportation investment?”

According to the latest figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 2022, the 14 states with the highest fertility rates backed Trump in the November election while the bottom 11 plus the District of Columbia supported Democrat Kamala Harris. Marriage rates tend to skew higher for red states too, but by a smaller margin.

Vice President JD Vance has long expressed concern about declining birth rates, citing national economic needs as well as the inherent value of children.

Tennessee Republican Sen. Marsha Blackburn raised the idea of tying transportation funding to population growth during Duffy’s confirmation hearing.

“People are leaving some of these blue states and coming to places like Tennessee,” she said. “And this means that we need to look at where those federal highway dollars are spent and placing them in areas with growing needs..............

Trump official's directive tying transportation grants to birth rates could hinder blue states

President Donald Trump's transportation secretary is instructing his department to prioritize projects for states with higher marriage or birth rates.

apnews.com

What kind of bullshirt is that?

 

[superchuck500]

What kind of bullshirt is that?

In administrative law parlance, we call that "arbitrary and capricious".

 

[coldseat]

I get some folks are upset and concerned but fact is that a great many people believe it’s high time someone took a look a look at govt spending.

You keep saying this like it's some meaningful or deep point and like it gives justification for anything Musk is doing. It isn't and it doesn't.

Taking control of the payment system doesn't do anything to "take a look at government spending". All it does is allow Musk to committ unauthorized and illegal actions by a person with a huge conflict of interest. They aren't uncovering any fraud in the payment system. We already have many apparatus in government that do that effectively. They are illegally stopping payments (and closing down government department) that have been approved by both congressional and presidential authority.

If they want to stop waste in government spending, the only way to do that legally is through congressional and executive action by passing bills through congress. I mean, as long as we still live in a Democratic Republic. I know the GOP and its voters want something else, but we're still supposed to be following the constitution.

 

[DaveXA]

For the federal workers struggling to decide whether to take the Trump administration’s deferred resignation program, a Massachusetts federal judge’s order to delay the Thursday night deadline was a reprieve — a chance to take a few more days to weigh a life-altering offer to leave their jobs with pay through Sept. 30.


But for some of the tens of thousands of federal employees who have already accepted the deal, the Thursday afternoon ruling in a lawsuit seeking to nullify the program brought confusion about their status, regret that they’d jumped at the offer too quickly, questions about whether to try to take back the decision or fear that if the program is ultimately thrown out, they now had a target on their backs.


“They have this list of people who resigned,” said an employee of the Office of Personnel Management — the agency administrating the program — who had emailed her resignation notice before the judge’s ruling and requested anonymity for fear of professional retribution. “That’s an easy list of people to get rid of.”……..

Federal workers who took Trump buyout feel fear, regret after judge’s order

Fwiw, there is official language in the Q and A and guidance on deferred resignations that the employee can rescind the request and return to normal work status. Whether that's actually honored, idk.

Also, some agencies have requested exemption from the offer for some of their programs, particularly those involving national security. We haven't received guidance on which, if any, of those were approved by the director. It's gotta be wild for employees trying to make informed decisions when the agency hasn't determined which employees will not be allowed to take the offer.

A lot of employees who already accepted the offer will be disallowed the offer because their program will eventually be exempted.