Kyle Rittenhouse given donations by police and other officials... (1 Viewer)

MT15

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Right, the way I get it is that if the person who obtained the data obtained it illegally, they are on the hook. But the publisher is not.
 

B4YOU

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I am typically very careful with Me Too, race, police shooting, or highly charged threads. The firing of people for donations/opinions is going to have a chilling effect on free speech. I don’t like the idea of employers controlling employee lives outside work hours. I also think the US needs transparent donation policies (>$20 public name and address) and better safe guards for employees. At some point people will get fired for donations to the “wrong” political party.

I haven’t followed the Rittenhouse thing much. Is a go fund me for Rittenhouse any different than the thousands of other pages for people who may have committed crimes? There’s a go fund me for Ma’hkia Bryant. Should the people who donate to that page lose their jobs?
 

Optimus Prime

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At some point people will get fired for donations to the “wrong” political party.


Some people already think exactly that
======================

........Do you think people should be fired for donating to Donald Trump or Joe Biden's campaign? If you said, "No, that's ridiculous, this must be one of those cancel culture exaggerations," I've got some bad news.

According to a July poll by YouGov and the libertarian-leaning Cato Institute, nearly one-third (32%) of Americans fear that their political opinions — if publicly known — could cost them their job or otherwise hinder their careers. The fear is spread roughly equally among broad political ideologies, with about one-third each of liberal, conservative, and moderate respondents worried about making their politics known.

Are these people overreacting? Perhaps not.

The same poll shows an alarming percentage of Americans think an executive donating to the political campaigns of either the Republican or Democratic nominee should be a fireable offense. That doesn't leave you with a lot of political options in a two-party system. This isn't like donating to a fringe candidate, or even a racist congressman like Steve King. Biden and Trump are the standard-bearer of the only political parties of any consequence in this country.

Almost one-third of Americans (31%) think business executives who donate to Trump's campaign should be fired, according to the poll. That number goes up to a full 50% of "staunch liberals" who'd support the firing of a Trump donor.

Conservatives who fancy themselves the exclusive victims of cancel culture might want to sit down at this point, because 36% of "staunch conservatives" — and 22% of Americans overall — think an executive should lose their job for donating to Biden's campaign...............

 

B4YOU

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Some people already think exactly that
======================

........Do you think people should be fired for donating to Donald Trump or Joe Biden's campaign? If you said, "No, that's ridiculous, this must be one of those cancel culture exaggerations," I've got some bad news.

According to a July poll by YouGov and the libertarian-leaning Cato Institute, nearly one-third (32%) of Americans fear that their political opinions — if publicly known — could cost them their job or otherwise hinder their careers. The fear is spread roughly equally among broad political ideologies, with about one-third each of liberal, conservative, and moderate respondents worried about making their politics known.

Are these people overreacting? Perhaps not.

The same poll shows an alarming percentage of Americans think an executive donating to the political campaigns of either the Republican or Democratic nominee should be a fireable offense. That doesn't leave you with a lot of political options in a two-party system. This isn't like donating to a fringe candidate, or even a racist congressman like Steve King. Biden and Trump are the standard-bearer of the only political parties of any consequence in this country.

Almost one-third of Americans (31%) think business executives who donate to Trump's campaign should be fired, according to the poll. That number goes up to a full 50% of "staunch liberals" who'd support the firing of a Trump donor.

Conservatives who fancy themselves the exclusive victims of cancel culture might want to sit down at this point, because 36% of "staunch conservatives" — and 22% of Americans overall — think an executive should lose their job for donating to Biden's campaign...............

And this is why political affiliation is 1 of the 21 protected traits such as race and religion that you can’t discriminate for employment in DC. People are too willing to take food from the mouths of other people’s families.

 

B4YOU

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Lives are more important than property. I’m not condoning riots, but it is disgusting that people seem to think damage to property is in the same category as a life.

Kyle Rittenhouse was a scared boy who showed up wanting to shoot some Antifa, and ended up shooting some Antifa. His parent let him go armed to an event where he was seeking out violence. We shouldn’t be setting up a gofundme for people who go out hunting for people to shoot. It’s too bad there isn’t better parenting in his community.

10 million dollars of damage to property isn’t more costly than the loss of a single life. If Kyle Rittehouse’s mother hadn’t driven him to his Antifa hunt, life would not have been lost.

Part of the problem is that some people seem to think black lives were more valuable back when they were property.
Would you be surprised to know that a human life does cost 10M?


 

DaveXA

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And this is why political affiliation is 1 of the 21 protected traits such as race and religion that you can’t discriminate for employment in DC. People are too willing to take food from the mouths of other people’s families.


Political affiliation and donations should absolutely be protected. I'm pretty shocked at those numbers. As long as you do your job, I don't care who you give your money too. Or is freedom of speech and expression not a thing?
 

B4YOU

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Cost to who?
It’s the value of a statistical life that the government/economists use when determining to adopt or reject a safety measure.


A better question might be how much in dollars of your possessions would you let someone destroy before you killed them? Or how much should the government spend to save one human life?
 
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samiam5211

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It’s the value of a statistical life that the government/economists use when determining to adopt or reject a safety measure.


A better question might be how much in dollars of your possessions would you let someone destroy before you killed them? Or how much should the government spend to save one human life?

I wouldn’t kill anyone even if they set fire to everything I own.

Saying a life costs 10 million dollars presumes they add 0 value.
 

DaveXA

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I wouldn’t kill anyone even if they set fire to everything I own.

Saying a life costs 10 million dollars presumes they add 0 value.

The second point makes no sense. Saying a life costs 10 million presumes a life is worth 10 million. How is that not adding value? So the state should pay nothing for an accidental death because they add no value? It just seems to be a weird comment.
 

SystemShock

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I am typically very careful with Me Too, race, police shooting, or highly charged threads. The firing of people for donations/opinions is going to have a chilling effect on free speech. I don’t like the idea of employers controlling employee lives outside work hours. I also think the US needs transparent donation policies (>$20 public name and address) and better safe guards for employees. At some point people will get fired for donations to the “wrong” political party.

I haven’t followed the Rittenhouse thing much. Is a go fund me for Rittenhouse any different than the thousands of other pages for people who may have committed crimes? There’s a go fund me for Ma’hkia Bryant. Should the people who donate to that page lose their jobs?

As @RobF already pointed out, there is much more nuance to the OP than firing people for donations and opinions. Do you really think it is ok for someone with a police badge and a gun, who is supposed to uphold the law, to both verbally and financially support a person who walked around with a rifle looking for people to shoot and shot them? From a police station? Using the police station's email?

As for your last question, let me ask you another: if you had a business, and one of your employees sent donations to or had correspondence with NAMBLA, using your business' computer and your business' email, what would you do?
 

DaveXA

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As @RobF already pointed out, there is much more nuance to the OP than firing people for donations and opinions. Do you really think it is ok for someone with a police badge and a gun, who is supposed to uphold the law, to both verbally and financially support a person who walked around with a rifle looking for people to shoot and shot them? From a police station? Using the police station's email?

As for your last question, let me ask you another: if you had a business, and one of your employees sent donations to or had correspondence with NAMBLA, using your business' computer and your business' email, what would you do?
No, but the question remains, where is the line drawn? Certainly, doing it using work computer and work email shouldn't be allowed for any of that.

But, if he's doing it on his personal email from his own computer, that's completely different.

What you do on your own time is your business. What you do on company time is company business. Do personal stuff at your business at your own risk.

Fwiw, whoever uses official email addresses to make anonymous donations of any kind is a dumbarse.
 

Nebaghead

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I am typically very careful with Me Too, race, police shooting, or highly charged threads. The firing of people for donations/opinions is going to have a chilling effect on free speech. I don’t like the idea of employers controlling employee lives outside work hours. I also think the US needs transparent donation policies (>$20 public name and address) and better safe guards for employees. At some point people will get fired for donations to the “wrong” political party.

I haven’t followed the Rittenhouse thing much. Is a go fund me for Rittenhouse any different than the thousands of other pages for people who may have committed crimes? There’s a go fund me for Ma’hkia Bryant. Should the people who donate to that page lose their jobs?
He used his work email. At my work, I can’t use my work email for personal anything, much less an anonymous donation to a controversial figure. Probably the same if he used it to make a political donation.
 

SystemShock

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But, if he's doing it on his personal email from his own computer, that's completely different.

Is it?
Let me modify the question: you own a day care, and you learn one of your employees is corresponding with and sending donations to NAMBLA on their own time using their own computer and their personal email. What do you do?

It is fine to make statements like "people should not get fired for donating or expressing their opinions" in principle, but there are exceptions to rules.
 

JRad

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Is it?
Let me modify the question: you own a day care, and you learn one of your employees is corresponding with and sending donations to NAMBLA on their own time using their own computer and their personal email. What do you do?

It is fine to make statements like "people should not get fired for donating or expressing their opinions" in principle, but there are exceptions to rules.

I wish I hadn’t looked that up, but even before I did my personal opinion is as long as what you’re doing doesn’t directly fly in the face of your employment (and that’s really a spot on example), your time and money is your time and money.

There is some context and nuance to what happens, and that (as always) is important. It may well be your employer has an acceptable use policy for your work email.
 

SystemShock

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I wish I hadn’t looked that up, but even before I did my personal opinion is as long as what you’re doing doesn’t directly fly in the face of your employment (and that’s really a spot on example), your time and money is your time and money.

There is some context and nuance to what happens, and that (as always) is important. It may well be your employer has an acceptable use policy for your work email.

Again, "your time and money is your time and money" sounds great in principle.

And doesn't have to be employment either. What would you do if you learned your neighbor is corresponding with and donating to NAMBLA? Do you say "their time and money"? Or do you call the FBI tip line?

The 1st Amendment has limitations. Employment has conditions. "It's their time and money" doesn't overwrite them.
 

DaveXA

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Again, "your time and money is your time and money" sounds great in principle.

And doesn't have to be employment either. What would you do if you learned your neighbor is corresponding with and donating to NAMBLA? Do you say "their time and money"? Or do you call the FBI tip line?

The 1st Amendment has limitations. Employment has conditions. "It's their time and money" doesn't overwrite them.

There are limits certainly. If you're donating to a known terrorist group, you can actually get in trouble legally for that. But, if you're donating to a political party, then people are free to give to any party without repercussions. I don't know anything about NAMBLA, but if they're doing illegal stuff, then supporting them should be a no go and yeah, call the FBI if you're legally obligated to do so.
 

SystemShock

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There are limits certainly. If you're donating to a known terrorist group, you can actually get in trouble legally for that. But, if you're donating to a political party, then people are free to give to any party without repercussions. I don't know anything about NAMBLA, but if they're doing illegal stuff, then supporting them should be a no go and yeah, call the FBI if you're legally obligated to do so.

So we move from getting fired from a job to just repercussions, whatever those may be. To various degrees, no one is truly free of repercussions from their actions. If you know someone who gave money to David Duke's campaign, would your opinion of that person change? It'll surely change mine, which would be a repercussion of their actions.

That last statement is interesting... but maybe for another discussion.

In any case, statements of principle are fine, and in some cases they apply just fine, but there are other cases where factors around situations have to be considered, which may invalidate the principle in that particular instance, as it is the case in the OP.
 

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