Israel vs Hamas (4 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

You would think after going through the Holocaust that Isreal would be very careful not do ever do anything similar. Apparently not

I think it's because of the Holocaust and world-wide anti-Semitism that has led them to this. Extremism breeds extremism. They basically learned they can't trust anyone and their existence is always in peril.

I understand how they got there, but understanding how they got there doesn't mean I think you don't stop them from doing the same thing.

I'll never understand the iron grip Israel has over US foreign policy. I get that they are a Western style democracy and are the most similar to us in the Middle East, but that doesn't they should be free from criticism or censure from the US, when they cross very clear lines. Like what's going on here, and their settlement policy.

 

[Heathen]

Just a reminder that theres a US supported ethnic cleansing of millions of people by religious terrorists still in full swing:

 

[samiam5211]

I think it's because of the Holocaust and world-wide anti-Semitism that has led them to this. Extremism breeds extremism. They basically learned they can't trust anyone and their existence is always in peril.

I understand how they got there, but understanding how they got there doesn't mean I think you don't stop them from doing the same thing.

I'll never understand the iron grip Israel has over US foreign policy. I get that they are a Western style democracy and are the most similar to us in the Middle East, but that doesn't they should be free from criticism or censure from the US, when they cross very clear lines. Like what's going on here, and their settlement policy.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the rumors about Epstein working for Mossad were true. It is one of those conspiracies that quickly gets labeled as anti-semetic, but there is plenty there for a reasonable person to assume it is a possibility.

No country is above doing no so nice things to allies to help them get their way. I am sure the US does it too, we know we spy on allies, no reason to think we are above using info to blackmail them when necessary too.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the rumors about Epstein working for Mossad were true. It is one of those conspiracies that quickly gets labeled as anti-semetic, but there is plenty there for a reasonable person to assume it is a possibility.

No country is above doing no so nice things to allies to help them get their way. I am sure the US does it too, we know we spy on allies, no reason to think we are above using info to blackmail them when necessary too.

There's a lot of evidence and smoke that Israel stole the nuclear secrets and illegally obtained the nuclear material that they needed to start their nuclear weapons program from the US.

The reason the US lets Israel do pretty much whatever they want is because Israel receives the biggest portion of US foreign aid, and they get a lot more than any other country. That has allowed Israel to invest a lot into lobbying Congress and making legal campaign donations. Both parties are dependent on the campaign donations and each individual politician is reluctant to give up the personal enrichment they get from Israeli lobbying efforts.

On top of that, the ADL accuses any and all criticism of Israeli policy and military actions as being antisemitic. Not all criticisms of Israeli policy and military actions are antisemitic, but once the ADL accuses someone as being antisemitic, life gets very difficult for that person.

 

[zztop]

This is odd to me, because yesterday I read the US was threatening to veto a cease-fire resolution.

US circulates rival UN resolution for temporary Gaza cease-fire after rejecting Arab proposal

The United States has circulated a rival U.N. Security Council resolution that would support a temporary cease-fire in Gaza after rejecting an Arab-backed resolution.

apnews.com

 

[MT15]

This is odd to me, because yesterday I read the US was threatening to veto a cease-fire resolution.

US circulates rival UN resolution for temporary Gaza cease-fire after rejecting Arab proposal

The United States has circulated a rival U.N. Security Council resolution that would support a temporary cease-fire in Gaza after rejecting an Arab-backed resolution.

apnews.com

I think Biden’s patience with Bibi is about shot.

 

[zztop]

I think Biden’s patience with Bibi is about shot.

hope so

 

[zztop]

Israel assembly falls short in vote to expel lawmaker over genocide case

The highly unusual vote to expel a sitting member of parliament reflects the fury in Israel at the case brought by South Africa, alleging that Israel's campaign to destroy the Islamist movement Hamas in Gaza amounted to genocide.

Cassif, whose communist Hadash party sits in the opposition as part of a joint list with the left-wing Arab Ta'al party, signed an open letter backing the allegations, although he dismissed claims that he supported Hamas.

"This impeachment request is based on a blatant lie – that I support Hamas' armed struggle," he said in the debate ahead of the vote, according to a Knesset statement.

Cassif said the real aim of the vote was "political persecution and silencing of every critical voice in general and of Arab citizens and their representatives in the Knesset in particular" and his motivation in signing the petition was "liberal scepticism".

"I am not prepared to take the government's claims about what is happening in Gaza at face value," he said.

 

[LA - L.A.]

This is odd to me, because yesterday I read the US was threatening to veto a cease-fire resolution.

US circulates rival UN resolution for temporary Gaza cease-fire after rejecting Arab proposal

The United States has circulated a rival U.N. Security Council resolution that would support a temporary cease-fire in Gaza after rejecting an Arab-backed resolution.

apnews.com

I think it's a sign that the Biden campaign's internal polling shows he's losing voters for not demanding more protection of the civilians in Gaza and the West Bank.

Throughout his entire political career, Biden adapts his positions on issues to maximize his election chances. That's why he's survived as long as he has and it's better than the current "ride or die and tell more lies" MAGA mentality.

 

[zztop]

I think it's a sign that the Biden campaign's internal polling shows he's losing voters for not demanding more protection of the civilians in Gaza and the West Bank.

Throughout his entire political career, Biden adapts his positions on issues to maximize his election chances. That's why he's survived as long as he has and it's better than the current "ride or die and tell more lies" MAGA mentality.

Will it be enough? I'm not so sure. I think he might could still lose Michigan, unless he does more. What more could he realistically do? I don't really know

I see he recently send aides to Michigan, so thats a start

Biden is sending aides to Michigan to see Arab American and Muslim leaders over the Israel-Hamas war

President Joe Biden is sending senior aides to Michigan on Thursday to meet with Arab American and Muslim leaders.

apnews.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

Will it be enough? I'm not so sure. I think he might could still lose Michigan, unless he does more. What more could he realistically do? I don't really know

I see he recently send aides to Michigan, so thats a start

Biden is sending aides to Michigan to see Arab American and Muslim leaders over the Israel-Hamas war

President Joe Biden is sending senior aides to Michigan on Thursday to meet with Arab American and Muslim leaders.

apnews.com

The most important thing to me is that the US finds a way to curtail Israel's maiming and killing of Palestinian and other civilians. If the Biden administration makes a genuine effort to do that, I think it would help the civilians in Gaza and Biden's reelection chances.

Biden is in a tough spot from an election standpoint, because the far right leadership in Israel will attack him politically which will also cause him to lose votes and campaign funds; and for the sake of 2/3rds of us, Biden really needs to win against Trump.

I think that's part of the reason Putin played a hand in the training and timing of Hamas's attack. Putin knew it would put Biden in a lose-lose dilemma regarding the election.

 

[Heathen]

The most important thing to me is that the US finds a way to curtail Israel's maiming and killing of Palestinian and other civilians.

I mean stopping Israel's uncontested (and still ongoing as we speak) genocide completely, not just curtailing it - would be a much more ideal option.

If the Biden administration makes a genuine effort to do that, I think it would help the civilians in Gaza and Biden's reelection chances.

I still haven't been given an answer on this site for why a Palestinian-American ever want to vote for Joe Biden or his administration ever again.

Not pointing out you specifically, just in general.

The Biden Administration has unequivocally supported Israel's genocide in Gaza for 4 months and counting.
The Biden Administration spent more time spreading a known lie about 'beheaded children' of Israel than they have ONCE talking about tens of thousands of massacred Palestinian people, including 8,000+ children.
The Biden Administration spent months publicly casting doubt on death figures of Palestinian people knowing good and well what the Israelis were doing.
Biden bypassed Congress to approve more 'emergency' weapons sales to a nation that was and still is committing genocide.

...Now they're trying to go out to Michigan and convince Palestinian-Americans to vote for Biden.

That's audacity.

Biden is in a tough spot from an election standpoint, because the far right leadership in Israel will attack him politically which will also cause him to lose votes and campaign funds; and for the sake of 2/3rds of us, Biden really needs to win against Trump.

I think that's part of the reason Putin played a hand in the training and timing of Hamas's attack. Putin knew it would put Biden in a lose-lose dilemma regarding the election.

Hell, there probably would have been pushback from his moderate base if Biden would've punished Israel / cut off aid for the genocide of the Palestinians.

Either way, yeah, he's in a tough spot.

 

[Taurus]

I mean stopping Israel's uncontested (and still ongoing as we speak) genocide completely, not just curtailing it - would be a much more ideal option.



I still haven't been given an answer on this site for why a Palestinian-American ever want to vote for Joe Biden or his administration ever again.

Not pointing out you specifically, just in general.

The Biden Administration has unequivocally supported Israel's genocide in Gaza for 4 months and counting.
The Biden Administration spent more time spreading a known lie about 'beheaded children' of Israel than they have ONCE talking about tens of thousands of massacred Palestinian people, including 8,000+ children.
The Biden Administration spent months publicly casting doubt on death figures of Palestinian people knowing good and well what the Israelis were doing.
Biden bypassed Congress to approve more 'emergency' weapons sales to a nation that was and still is committing genocide.

...Now they're trying to go out to Michigan and convince Palestinian-Americans to vote for Biden.

That's audacity.



Hell, there probably would have been pushback from his moderate base if Biden would've punished Israel / cut off aid for the genocide of the Palestinians.

Either way, yeah, he's in a tough spot.

Because any American who values Democracy should vote for Biden.

If Palestinian-Americans think Biden is bad, just wait until Trump's gobbling Bibi's circumcised knob.

 

[Heathen]

Because any American who values Democracy should vote for Biden.

If Palestinian-Americans think Biden is bad, just wait until Trump's gobbling Bibi's circumcised knob.

Hmm...So I guess there's never anything so bad that one candidate/party could do that crosses a point of no return

...as long as the other candidate is 'worse'.


Seems like a slippery slope.

 

[coldseat]

I still haven't been given an answer on this site for why a Palestinian-American ever want to vote for Joe Biden or his administration ever again.

They may not want to vote for Biden and they certainly won't be forced to vote for him. Their other options will be Trump, a 3rd party candidate that won't win or to not vote.

They have to make a choice, just like we all do. The reality for Palestinian-Americans is that they are a minority in this country and there is no candidate out there that is 100% on their side and capable of winning popular support for president. Certainly not in this election. Regardless of what they choose to do, they will have to make a choice. And that choice will have an effect on the country they live in and are citizens of now.

 

[Heathen]

They have to make a choice, just like we all do. The reality for Palestinian-Americans is that they are a minority in this country and there is no candidate out there that is 100% on their side and capable of winning popular support for president.

I'm not sure what being a minority has to do with it.

Certainly not in this election. Regardless of what they choose to do, they will have to make a choice. And that choice will have an effect on the country they live in and are citizens of now.

Sure, I understand that choices will lead to an end state. I also understand some folks just won't see it the way I do. That's perfectly fine.

Point I'm echoing is that no one has any right to judge them for refusing to vote for an administration that aided in the genocide of their people.

Not sure if anyone here has been in the situation these people are in, but I would wager there'd be a different outlook on the issue that was less binary if there were.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Hmm...So I guess there's never anything so bad that one candidate/party could do that crosses a point of no return

...as long as the other candidate is 'worse'.

All I hear you do is rail against Biden for being so bad and not vote worthy.

Either Biden or Trump is going to win the election, unless for some unexpected reason Trump isn't the nominee.

Do you think Biden winning the election is as bad for Palestinians and everyone else as Trump winning the election?

If Biden and Trump aren't vote worthy, who is vote worthy that's going to be on the ballot?

Who should people write in if none of the people on the ballot are vote worthy?

Complaining solves nothing. Instead of constantly giving reasons not to vote for Biden, how about giving reasons to vote for another specific candidate.

Seems like a slippery slope.

Which presidential candidate doesn't seem like a slippery slope to you?

 

[Dragon]

Hmm...So I guess there's never anything so bad that one candidate/party could do that crosses a point of no return

...as long as the other candidate is 'worse'.


Seems like a slippery slope.

Well Biden have insisted again and again that the US want a 2 state solution. The palestinian has been cheated out of their own state multiple times and not always by the west.

Under separate agreements between Israel and the neighboring states of Egypt, Lebanon, Transjordan, and Syria, these bordering nations agreed to formal armistice lines. Israel gained some territory formerly granted to Palestinian Arabs under the United Nations resolution in 1947. Egypt and Jordan retained control over the Gaza Strip and the West Bank respectively. These armistice lines held until 1967. The United States did not become directly involved with the armistice negotiations,

Bidens plan of a 2 state solution is actually an improvement over Trumps support of Israel making Jerusalem their capitol which was against every UN agreement on the matter, which stated that Jerusalem should be under shared authority with both palestinians and Israeli sharing the power over that city.