Israel vs Hamas (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[DaveXA]

I really don't understand this fight over numbers. It's not a pissing contest. 1 life loss is tragic. Be better.

No one is fighting. We're having a healthy dialogue here. I haven't had a chance to look, but I'll try and find the source the numbers came from. That's really all I'm asking. Seems like no one knows because no one has posted it yet.

 

[DaveXA]

I hear and I understand. I hope you understand that is insulting for anyone here to question someone or think anyone here is relying on any information from Hamas. It's inherently insulting, especially doing it to posters you have enough history with to know that they would not do that.

I mean you in the general sense, not specifically you.

You're misplacing your "insulting". The questions aren't necessarily directed at anyone here. It's directed at the media who has already gotten numerous "facts" wrong as another poster laid out well. So, I'm simply not very trusting of what's coming from the media right now.

 

[LA - L.A.]

You're misplacing your "insulting". The questions aren't necessarily directed at anyone here. It's directed at the media who has already gotten numerous "facts" wrong as another poster laid out well. So, I'm simply not very trusting of what's coming from the media right now.

I know and I wasn't referring to you being insulting.

 

[DaveXA]

I know and I wasn't referring to you being insulting.

I missed that last sentence. Was that an edit? I didn't see it the first time I read it. Regardless, I see what you're getting at now.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I missed that last sentence. Was that an edit? I didn't see it the first time I read it. Regardless, I see what you're getting at now.

It might have been an edit. Honestly, I'm not sure and it's a good argument for not posting while distracted.

 

[MT15]

Great news, hopefully:

 

[LA - L.A.]

Here's more tragic news unfortunately.

They followed evacuation orders. An Israeli airstrike killed them the next day. | CNN

When Palestinians in north Gaza heeded the warnings issued in the Israeli military’s phone calls, text messages, and fliers advising them to head south, they thought they were fleeing to potential safety.

www.cnn.com

Clashes at Lebanon-Israel border raise fears of wider war | CNN

On the face of it, the crossfire on Lebanon’s border with Israel appears marginal, dwarfed by the scale and intensity of the Hamas-Israel war further south.

www.cnn.com

Doesn't look good for containing it to Israel and Gaza. I hope the US doesn't engage in combat, because I think that will lead to an outbreak of military conflict across the planet. By the way, that's why I have no doubt Russia at the very least encouraged Hamas to attack.

 

[zztop]

^ I was just reading about that. very sad indeed

The next day, an Israeli airstrike in the area destroyed parts of the building where Aaed’s family sought refuge – killing him and 12 other members of his family, including seven children

 

[DaveXA]

It might have been an edit. Honestly, I'm not sure and it's a good argument for not posting while distracted.

It's all good. It just threw me off. I was posting while walking the dog.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

That's an example of discriminatory enforcement of a law, it's by design, it's systemic and it needs to change. However, the law does not say "if you're black and get caught with drugs you go to jail." The law says if a person gets caught with drugs they go to jail.

I hope you also recognize that there is ongoing political activism to end the systemically discriminatory enforcement of laws.

Show an example of a US law that reads "if you are X type person, you are criminal for being X type person and you will go to jail just for being X type person." We allow jackhole Nazis and other white supremacists to run around openly spewing their vile, stupid rhetoric without resting them. They only get arrest if they take an action that a law criminalizes. I hope you understand the difference.

The facts are that people go to jail, or not, because of who they are, or are not, all the time. Joe Blow with an outstanding reputation, and no record, commits X-Crime and walks. Jim Blow with a long record commits the same crime and goes to jail for 10 years. That's the way it is.

Hamas wantingly and purposely kills jews. Israel kills Palestinians while striking back at Hamas. They warrant two different reactions just like Joe and Jim Blow did. I hope you recognize this and understand the difference.

 

[LA - L.A.]

The facts are that people go to jail, or not, because of who they are, or are not, all the time. Joe Blow with an outstanding reputation, and no record, commits X-Crime and walks. Jim Blow with a long record commits the same crime and goes to jail for 10 years. That's the way it is.

That's because of a history of prior bad actions, meaning things they did in the past. It's not because of who they are it's because of what each did and didn't do in the past. If a person repeatedly does things that are illegal, increasing consequences are written into the law.

Show me an example of any US law that says "because you are X and only because you are X you will be penalize in this way only for being X." You can't find an example, because laws like that do not exist in the US. The laws are written to hold people accountable for their actions, not for who they are.

Hamas wantingly and purposely kills jews.

That's a tragic fact.

Israel kills Palestinians while striking back at Hamas.

Tragically, that's not entirely factually accurately. There is some truth to that, but it's not the whole truth.

They warrant two different reactions just like Joe and Jim Blow did.

I believe every innocent person killed deserves the same reaction.

I believe the killing of some innocent people never justifies the avoidable and unnecessary killing of other innocent people.

I'm glad that the US government and military are working to get Israel to stop killing innocent people that can avoid being killed while Israel defends itself.

 

[MT15]

I just read an exchange on Twitter that illustrates the “fog of war”.

1. A heart-wrenching tweet that the people of Gaza are reduced to drinking sea water. Which sounds just god-awful.

2. The next tweet says that actually Gaza sits on an aquifer and they don’t rely on Israel for more than 10% of their water. But that Hamas has been digging up the pipes for years to use the metal to make rockets so the residents also have mini-desalination plants to use as well.

3. The original poster said that due to neglect over the years of Hamas rule, the aquifer has become contaminated by sea water, and that’s what she meant by they are drinking sea water, and anyway they cannot run their desalination plants because there isn’t any electricity because the fuel to run the power plant is gone. She implies that it because of Israel.

4. The second account asks her by name so I get the impression they know each other: where did the fuel go? Tell us where it went. And posted UN tweets saying that several pickup trucks had pulled up to the power plant claiming to be official Hamas representatives and offloaded the fuel into tanks on their trucks. And that the UN reps had been forced to leave at that point.

So reading this exchange I still don’t know what is true or not. But I was struck by the fact that Gaza does have a source of water, which I never saw mentioned at all in any news reports. And it suddenly makes sense because no one can survive a week without water. Now the water is evidently contaminated and we still need to get fresh water and fuel for the power plant in there. But the dilemma is how does anyone know whether Hamas will just steal the fuel again? It’s a definite problem.

 

[MT15]

I’m hopeful that the people of Israel will finally get rid of Bibi after this is over. I’m not sure how he wormed his way back after his last defeat…

 

[MT15]

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

That's because of a history of prior bad actions, meaning things they did in the past. It's not because of who they are it's because of what each did and didn't do in the past. If a person repeatedly does things that are illegal, increasing consequences are written into the law.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Come on. It's because that person is a criminal. That's who and what he is. And Joe Blow, with his long history of good citizenry, is most likely not a criminal at heart. So one goes to jail and the other doesn't.

Hamas killed wantonly and with prejudice. Israel has killed as a reaction to Hamas's wanton actions. Now, both are ugly, but the reasons behind the two are very different and therefore must be seen in a different light.

Now, I will say that Israel is walking a very fine line and if they aren't very careful moving forward here they will earn the same reputation that Hamas currently enjoys.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I just read an exchange on Twitter that illustrates the “fog of war”.

...

So reading this exchange I still don’t know what is true or not. But I was struck by the fact that Gaza does have a source of water, which I never saw mentioned at all in any news reports. And it suddenly makes sense because no one can survive a week without water. Now the water is evidently contaminated and we still need to get fresh water and fuel for the power plant in there. But the dilemma is how does anyone know whether Hamas will just steal the fuel again? It’s a definite problem.

I'm not playing gotcha, your post just sincerely struck me as puzzling.

You don't know what is true or not, but you chose to believe some of it is true? Why do you choose to believe they have water, even though you haven't seen that confirmed anywhere else? Do you know for a fact that people haven't died from lack of water in Gaza?

I don't get any of my information from social media it's unreliable and design to confirm one's biases. The only thing that can be relied on is postings from verified credible news source, but even with those you'll only get posts that confirm your biases.

I prefer to go directly to the actual news source for that information. I block all tracking of my search and browsing history, to significantly minimize getting stuck in a bias confirmation chamber.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I just read an exchange on Twitter that illustrates the “fog of war”.

1. A heart-wrenching tweet that the people of Gaza are reduced to drinking sea water. Which sounds just god-awful.

2. The next tweet says that actually Gaza sits on an aquifer and they don’t rely on Israel for more than 10% of their water. But that Hamas has been digging up the pipes for years to use the metal to make rockets so the residents also have mini-desalination plants to use as well.

3. The original poster said that due to neglect over the years of Hamas rule, the aquifer has become contaminated by sea water, and that’s what she meant by they are drinking sea water, and anyway they cannot run their desalination plants because there isn’t any electricity because the fuel to run the power plant is gone. She implies that it because of Israel.

4. The second account asks her by name so I get the impression they know each other: where did the fuel go? Tell us where it went. And posted UN tweets saying that several pickup trucks had pulled up to the power plant claiming to be official Hamas representatives and offloaded the fuel into tanks on their trucks. And that the UN reps had been forced to leave at that point.

So reading this exchange I still don’t know what is true or not. But I was struck by the fact that Gaza does have a source of water, which I never saw mentioned at all in any news reports. And it suddenly makes sense because no one can survive a week without water. Now the water is evidently contaminated and we still need to get fresh water and fuel for the power plant in there. But the dilemma is how does anyone know whether Hamas will just steal the fuel again? It’s a definite problem.

I did read a few days ago that Israel shut off what amounts to only 7% of Gaza's drinking water.

Who knows?

 

[LA - L.A.]

Come on. It's because that person is a criminal.

It's because that person has a history of committing criminal acts. It's not, because of how they were born, it's because of the things they did after they were born.