Is Secession a Realistic Option? (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I’m looking for serious responses, hopefully.. I think there is a good chance that Trump loses the election- but, as posters have pointed out in other threads- as i type this , we have an American president who is actively trying to suppress voters and rig the election, AND has stated on multiple occasions that if he loses, then by definition that means that the election was fixed... SO, with all that in mind- in the event of a Trump ‘victory’- what is to stop , say, California , Oregon and Washington pulling away from the US (CA has the world’s sixth-largest economy, As we all know).. Same with the New England states .. One initial problem i see is that, all 50 states have both Trump voters, as well as Non-Trump voters within their borders.. So unfortunately, anyone who ISNT willing to live under a strong armed dictator will have to move to the East or West Coast (if they want to, of course).. I have talked to conservatives in the past who have told me that they ‘wish California would just fall into the ocean’ (not even paraphrasing)- so presumably the New Trump America wouldnt mind seeing us all go.. Why would they even bother to start a Civil War, since they have such animosity towards the coasts (and non-Trump voters) anyway... It sucks, but it’s where we are.. Is this realistic, why or why not?

 

[V Chip]

I personally know more than a few gay couples that sold in the marigny and moved to the maga hardcore maga areas like north Georgia.

Out of the freezer and into the fire.

North Georgia is MTG territory (well, NW GA, but all of N GA is of that same ilk). They're not gonna find much to their liking politically there... and I'm a hop skip & jump from MTG land myself.

 

[The moose]

Out of the freezer and into the fire.

North Georgia is MTG territory (well, NW GA, but all of N GA is of that same ilk). They're not gonna find much to their liking politically there... and I'm a hop skip & jump from MTG land myself.

Nah they will be fine. I assume they have a huge rainbow flag out front to announce to the world who they are if the Subaru and the standard poodles and impeccably dressed did not do it already.

The problems in Oregon are because it is an affordable place to live that brings people in droves that don't think like them.

The deep south maga areas are gonna get overwhelmed soon just like Bend and Portland. North Georgia parts of Alabama and hell all of Mississippi are dirt cheap. It is gonna be the new retirement place after people made their egg already or any place with a internet connection is now the office for so many
We are gonna see a shift.

 

[Taurus]

Nah they will be fine. I assume they have a huge rainbow flag out front to announce to the world who they are if the Subaru and the standard poodles and impeccably dressed did not do it already.

The problems in Oregon are because it is an affordable place to live that brings people in droves that don't think like them.

The deep south maga areas are gonna get overwhelmed soon just like Bend and Portland. North Georgia parts of Alabama and hell all of Mississippi are dirt cheap. It is gonna be the new retirement place after people made their egg already or any place with a internet connection is now the office for so many
We are gonna see a shift.

If Covid can be said to have a silver lining, it's that we've accelerated the work-from-home paradigm. The risk of extreme gerrymandering is that if the demographics of your once safely pink districts change just a little, the whole damn state will turn blue.

 

[Saintman2884]

Nah they will be fine. I assume they have a huge rainbow flag out front to announce to the world who they are if the Subaru and the standard poodles and impeccably dressed did not do it already.

The problems in Oregon are because it is an affordable place to live that brings people in droves that don't think like them.

The deep south maga areas are gonna get overwhelmed soon just like Bend and Portland. North Georgia parts of Alabama and hell all of Mississippi are dirt cheap. It is gonna be the new retirement place after people made their egg already or any place with a internet connection is now the office for so many
We are gonna see a shift.

Moose, there are a lot of experienced technicians, doctors, software engineers, middle-and-high ranking administration who work for Fortune 500 companies, corporations based in California, New York who are now leaving and relocating to Austin, TX. Florida, Nevada, Arizona because the costs and prices of doing business were too high in those states where their soon-to-be former headquarters were once located. Tesla, Oracle, Hewlett-Packard are just a few corporations leaving NY and California and that profitable tax base can't be so easily replaced even by newer tech startups, entrepeneurs who might decide to stick around while the huge earners leave. That's also a significant brain drain that can't be so easily compensated or adequately reorganized.

Politically, you might see Texas, Florida, Arizona, and parts of Ga. deep red states politically,.turn a little bluer, but that leaves the cities, areas, economic sectors those companies left behind gutted and forked, economically. And the long-term ramifications, and generational social, political, and economic decline that follows huge corporations leaving once-prosperous, growing cities like Detroit, to a certain extent Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and other Rust Belt cities in the 1960's and 1970's is a brutal very nasty, urban tapestry.

 

[Goatman saint]

Moose, there are a lot of experienced technicians, doctors, software engineers, middle-and-high ranking administration who work for Fortune 500 companies, corporations based in California, New York who are now leaving and relocating to Austin, TX. Florida, Nevada, Arizona because the costs and prices of doing business were too high in those states where their soon-to-be former headquarters were once located. Tesla, Oracle, Hewlett-Packard are just a few corporations leaving NY and California and that profitable tax base can't be so easily replaced even by newer tech startups, entrepeneurs who might decide to stick around while the huge earners leave. That's also a significant brain drain that can't be so easily compensated or adequately reorganized.

Politically, you might see Texas, Florida, Arizona, and parts of Ga. deep red states politically,.turn a little bluer, but that leaves the cities, areas, economic sectors those companies left behind gutted and forked, economically. And the long-term ramifications, and generational social, political, and economic decline that follows huge corporations leaving once-prosperous, growing cities like Detroit, to a certain extent Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and other Rust Belt cities in the 1960's and 1970's is a brutal very nasty, urban tapestry.

Ya know people keep saying that. Man for the 25 years I’ve been here all I’ve heard is exactly this. Yet, in some ridiculous way California’s budget is the best in the US, and our job growth is accounting for 38% of the US total. Also, while they are moving corporate headquarters (or in Tesla’s case addingnproduction) no place is shutting down anything in California as that technology hub is way too connected to Stanford, Berekely and a host of other assets.

 

[Saintman2884]

Ya know people keep saying that. Man for the 25 years I’ve been here all I’ve heard is exactly this. Yet, in some ridiculous way California’s budget is the best in the US, and our job growth is accounting for 38% of the US total. Also, while they are moving corporate headquarters (or in Tesla’s case addingnproduction) no place is shutting down anything in California as that technology hub is way too connected to Stanford, Berekely and a host of other assets.

Having a population, larger then that of Canada, sort of helps that you know? Still, even with big states with large, enormous populations like California, if they lose huge, Fortune 500 companies like Tesla, or Oracle, and the pattern keeps repeating over and over again, eventually that lost income revenue does catch up with you. Its just a basic law of economics and supply and demand.

Believe it or not, L.A. used to have a pretty large dominant manufacturing sector especially 30 years ago, but now its hardly even visible anymore? One can blame NAFTA and bad free trade policies, but that's a bipartisan screwup, too.

Research and development probably suffer too much, in the short-mid term, and thats where maybe Berkeley and Stanford fit in, but R & D can still be outsourced in the long run, especially if other cities like Austin or Dallas start developing in the tech sector and Research and Development is one important part, but not the only part of a major corporation that has jobs that once they leave an area, are difficult to replace.

You also forgot to mention a lot of major Fortune 500 companies are leaving New York,.too? I suppose CNBC was exaggerating those stories, too or is it just over-simplistic BS. I mean, CNBC and other major business magazines and networks have been reporting on these developments in numerous stories,.articles, online or on segments the past few years or so?

Goat, free bit of advice: don't take anything, for granted. 50 years ago, no one thought Detroit would have this epic, total economic collapse. The USA automobile industry was too strong, too reliant and too dependent on cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, major iron and steel manufacturing sectors were too entrenched into our overall GDP that any drastic change could happen. And yet, now in 2021, heavy industry only makes up less then 10% of our GDP.

Don't assume that Berkeley, Stanford, are immutable, and forever untouchable in the tech industry, or high-stakes research and development game? No one thought that any other city, or countries, could compete with Detroit 50 years ago and yet for decades, German and Japanese automakers have been kicking our arses, with a distinct infrastructural advantages, of course.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Having a population, larger then that of Canada, sort of helps that you know?

Believe it or not, L.A. used to have a pretty large dominant manufacturing sector especially 30 years ago, but now its hardly even visible anymore?

You also forgot to mention a lot of major Fortune 500 companies are leaving New York,.too?

I mean, CNBC and other major business magazines and networks have been reporting on these developments in numerous stories,.articles, online or on segments the past few years or so?

Don't assume that Berkeley, Stanford, are immutable, and forever untouchable in the tech industry, or high-stakes research and development game?

Your writing style makes your posts sometimes impossible to understand. Are the above quotes supposed to somehow be questions?

And I'm actually asking you a question; not making statements and ending them with question marks.

 

[Saintman2884]

Your writing style makes your posts sometimes impossible to understand. Are the above quotes supposed to somehow be questions?

And I'm actually asking you a question; not making statements and ending them with question marks.

Their actually replies to what Goat said about states like California and New York losing quite a lot of tax income revenue and seemingly brushing it off like its no big deal. My replies sometimes, in replies or posts on MAP can be worded as much like questions than answers.

I do admit, that I have a bad habit of giving stream-of-consciousness answers, thats been a problem thats bugged me since my earliest days on SR because whenever I get involved in a discussion on complex, nuanced topics, I tended to information dump, meaning I go overboard trying to be too specific on details and explain my position, I end up losing people. When it comes to discussing complex socio-political issues, its hard for me to give easy one-paragraph answers that are nice, tidey, and sufficive on Internet forums.

 

[B4YOU]

Their actually replies to what Goat said about states like California and New York losing quite a lot of tax income revenue and seemingly brushing it off like its no big deal. My replies sometimes, in replies or posts on MAP can be worded as much like questions than answers.

I do admit, that I have a bad habit of giving stream-of-consciousness answers, thats been a problem thats bugged me since my earliest days on SR because whenever I get involved in a discussion on complex, nuanced topics, I tended to information dump, meaning I go overboard trying to be too specific on details and explain my position, I end up losing people. When it comes to discussing complex socio-political issues, its hard for me to give easy one-paragraph answers that are nice, tidey, and sufficive on Internet forums.

Redirect Notice

Federal funds are making up for shortfalls as state and local governments cut budgets.

Also, I appreciate that you seemed to make an effort with paragraphs and shorter (thought not short ) posts.

 

[Goatman saint]

Shhhh…..

here’s to those who doubt the great people’s republik of Kalifornia.

California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy​

The Golden State has no peers when it comes to expanding GDP, raising household income, investing in innovation and a host of other key metrics.

California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

The Golden State has no peers when it comes to expanding GDP, raising household income, investing in innovation and a host of other key metrics.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[DaveXA]

Shhhh…..

here’s to those who doubt the great people’s republik of Kalifornia.

California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy​

The Golden State has no peers when it comes to expanding GDP, raising household income, investing in innovation and a host of other key metrics.

California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

The Golden State has no peers when it comes to expanding GDP, raising household income, investing in innovation and a host of other key metrics.

www.bloomberg.com

Personally, I'm not really a fan of typical California politics, but the state is a pretty great place to live. I've been there several times and enjoyed just about every bit of it.

 

[Goatman saint]

Personally, I'm not really a fan of typical California politics, but the state is a pretty great place to live. I've been there several times and enjoyed just about every bit of it.

I do also. It’s politics are a bit odd at times, but I do think it is an excellent state which fir all its shortcomings at least gives best effort to solve some problems.

 

[DaveXA]

I do also. It’s politics are a bit odd at times, but I do think it is an excellent state which fir all its shortcomings at least gives best effort to solve some problems.

Agreed.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[Goatman saint]

Sounds like a great idea to me. They want to be stuck in the 1860s let them be

 

[superchuck500]

Sounds like a great idea to me. They want to be stuck in the 1860s let them be

The polling also found that the 39% of northeast Democrats supported secession.

 

[B4YOU]

I can’t think of a Balkanization that went well. The US would be particularly difficult to split. For all the talk of Red/Blue states, 2/3 of states didn’t break 60% for one candidate in the 2020 presidential. The military and the industry that supports it would never allow it. It would end the US ability to project power. Succession talk is the wishful thinking of the frustrated.

 

[The moose]

The best thing about that is the south is on the tits! Not one southern state pay in more than they get out of uncle Sam. Not one.

Who is gonna pay the bills?