Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.

VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.

www.nytimes.com

Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

How to think about war in Ukraine

Start with the Ukrainians

snyder.substack.com

 

[UriUT]

Says the guy who pointed to the whitewashed Winter of Fire documentary to show what really happened in Ukraine.

Did you watch it????? Says the guy who thinks npr tries to make us how to think....but freaking relies on some off based criticism by someone on the web. Woopty...dubudgu...it's nazi...more buzz words..... Watch the damn documentary. Learn the events. Stop freaking projecting.

 

[DaveXA]

Did you watch it????? Says the guy who thinks npr tries to make us how to think....but freaking relies on some off based criticism by someone on the web. Woopty...dubudgu...it's nazi...more buzz words..... Watch the damn documentary. Learn the events. Stop freaking projecting.

He's too lazy to read and watch actual facts. Lol.

 

[SaintForLife]

Did you watch it????? Says the guy who thinks npr tries to make us how to think....but freaking relies on some off based criticism by someone on the web. Woopty...dubudgu...it's nazi...more buzz words..... Watch the damn documentary. Learn the events. Stop freaking projecting.

Why would I watch a white washed propaganda film that removed any references to the far right or Nazis involvement despite their involvement?

That was a 25 year and current employee of NPR that said that and not me. I posted his article.

 

[UriUT]

Why would I watch a white washed propaganda film that removed any references to the far right or Nazis involvement despite their involvement?

That was a 25 year and current employee of NPR that said that and not me. I posted his article.

Oh how convenient. "I didn't say, I only post things I don't believe in". Own it. Just like owning to the letting some random guy tell you how to think....instead of more excuses. How would you know until you actually see it?

 

[J-DONK]

He's too lazy to read and watch actual facts. Lol.

We are all conversating with a "anti-war" pro russian conservative. Logic, and reasoning aren't high up on the list either.

 

[bird]

I've posted it multiple times. She's on the board of NED which is a CIA cutout. I posted a NYT article saying NED is linked to the CIA.

Applebaum also got caught red-handed serving as a secret "Inner Cluster Cell" member of a busted British intelligence operation set up for covert censorship & political warfare operations known as the Integrity Initiative.

I know yall love her.

Oddly enough when intelligence or military sources back your beliefs then they are ok.

 

[UriUT]

Oddly enough when intelligence or military sources back your beliefs then they are ok.

Oddly enough, neither of these sources back up this belief. The thing he doesn't understand is that promoting democracy is an academia idea, as applebaum is one. It's based on the notion that liberal democracies don't wage wars against one another. Therefore, to promote long lasting peace, more liberal democracies are needed.

 

[MT15]

Lol okay dude. You aren't making the point you think you are. You seem to be okay with supporting every war. You must not worry about all the people who die and are directly affected by war. Must be nice to not have a conscience.

My support of Trump doesn't negate my antiwar stance.

This is nothing but a character smear and a personal attack on J-Donk. He has never said he supports every war. He has never done anything to indicate he doesn’t worry about the people who die or are directly affected. There is zero indication he doesn’t have a conscience.

I honestly don’t know how you reconcile this in your own head.

 

[MT15]

The point is you said that in today's current climate that the US is unsure about adding Ukraine to NATO.

Can you answer why NATO turned Ukraine down more than once before Russia invaded, yet you think Russia was justified to invade Ukraine because of NATO? You’ve been ducking this question. For once, can you answer how that makes sense?

Everybody knows that once Ukraine put up a valiant fight against the war criminal Putin, NATO has decided to accept Ukraine as soon as they can. If Russia hadn’t invaded Ukraine, they would still be going through the process and trying to convince NATO to take them. Of course NATO also picked up Norway and Sweden because of Putin’s invasion. NATO is a defense pact.

 

[J-DONK]

Can you answer why NATO turned Ukraine down more than once before Russia invaded, yet you think Russia was justified to invade Ukraine because of NATO? You’ve been ducking this question. For once, can you answer how that makes sense?

Everybody knows that once Ukraine put up a valiant fight against the war criminal Putin, NATO has decided to accept Ukraine as soon as they can. If Russia hadn’t invaded Ukraine, they would still be going through the process and trying to convince NATO to take them. Of course NATO also picked up Norway and Sweden because of Putin’s invasion. NATO is a defense pact.

You can tell by the fallout what the plan was initially. American oil companies were going to help extract Ukraine's ONG. Ukraine was going to slowly join the EU, and be an alternative to some percentage of Russian ONG. That, and potentially losing crimea, at the end of the lease, is what Russia freaked out over. NATO wasn't even a thought at that point.

Would you rather partner with the EU, and it's 26 trillion dollar economy, or Russia an economy the size of Italy?

SFL, and Russia has to come up with schizo NATO plot instead of you know, the obvious, $$$$$$.

Could Ukraine join NATO one day? Sure, but they do, and did have a lot of corruption issues.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I'm still waiting on your to respond to my hypothetical scenario of China entering a security pact with Canada and Mexico and installing bases on our borders.

I promise to answer your hypothetical scenario honestly and without insults if you clearly explain in your scenario:

1. Who you equate China with in the Russian invasion of Ukraine situation and how they are equal.
2. Who you equate Canada with in the Russian invasion of Ukraine situation and how they are equal.
3. Who you equate Mexico with in the Russian invasion of Ukraine situation and how they are equal.
4. Which bases the US installed on the border of Russia and where they installed them.

At face value, I don't see the scenario in the hypothetical scenario you present as the same as the Russian invasion of Ukraine situation.

Do the facts you listed somehow discredit the leaked US cable by current CIA director that said Ukraine NATO membership was a red line

It's irrelevant because NATO declined Ukraine's request to join NATO and said they had no plans to allow Ukraine to join NATO prior to Russia invading Ukraine.

It was only after Russia invaded Ukraine and Putin said he wanted to reclaim the Baltic states and Finland too, that NATO said they would consider allowing Ukraine to join NATO.

NATO gave Putin what he claimed he wanted and he still invaded Ukraine. At that point, NATO finally realized that it's a mistake to keep trying to appease Putin because he's a liar who constantly goes back on his promises.

Finland and Sweden both realized they could not trust Putin to respect their neutrality and abandoned a long tradition of neutrality to join NATO.

When an entire content says Putin can't be trusted, maybe...just maybe, we should pay attention.

 

[LA - L.A.]

...go fight on the front lines since you are so gung ho about the war...

This wasn't spoken to me, but I just wanted to add my perspective for everyone.

I'm not gung ho for the war. I'd really like Russia to end the war by withdrawaling from Ukraine. That's the best and just outcome.

I'm all for Ukraine fighting until they drive Russia completely out of every inch of Ukraine, including Crimea.

Both humorously and genuinely, me going to Ukraine to fight with them would be subtraction by addition for Ukraine. I would no doubt quickly end up a causality that would distract able bodied soldiers from fighting, because they'd have to drag my wounded or dead arse to be collected and returned home.

Ukraine's defenses are better off without my 58 year old, out of shape arse to worry about.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I simply asked if the US would consider it a national security threat if China entered a defense pact with Canada and Mexico and China put 50 bases along our border.

The US didn't build any new bases on the Russian border recently prior to Russia invading Ukraine.

NATO didn't build new bases on the Russian border recently prior to Russia invading Ukraine.

The hypothetical analogy is a fundamentally flawed comparison, because neither the US or NATO built new bases on the Russian border recently prior to Russian invading Ukraine.

In the scenario given, based on our response to China's recent military build up in the China sea, Pacific Ocean, and Indian Ocean, coupled with China's increasingly aggressive actions toward US troops in those areas, I think the US response would be to build up defenses to counter the new bases along its border and to fortify our military presence and alliances in the IndoPacific region as a deterrent to any aggression from China.

I think that's what the US military would do, because that's what they are doing right now. The Bay of Pigs was over 60 years ago. Putin is stuck in 1960's Cold War strategies. US military strategies have kept up with modern times.

 

[LA - L.A.]

...a white washed propaganda film that removed any references to the far right or Nazis involvement despite their involvement...

If one honestly believes that Russia was justified to invade Ukraine because of the far right and Nazis having some government influence in Ukraine, then if that same someone was consistently honest in that believe, they would also believe that Russia would be justified to invade the US.

Let that sink in everyone. Any American that honestly believes Russia was justified to invade Ukraine because of the far right and Nazi influence is also creating a justification for Russia to invade the US.

Everyone who thinks Russia would be justified to invade the US, please signify so by clicking on the emoji in response to this post.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

why does anyone bring up Nazi's in the Ukraine as if its some kind justification to not help Ukraine or excuse why Russia invaded Ukraine.
Those people would sure would be surprised if they found out how may Nazis are in America. Hell we have sitting politicians who have rallys and dinners with Nazis. We have even more who won't condemn them and say stuff like "some of them are very fine people".
Unfortunately Nazis are in every country around the world.

 

[MT15]

why does anyone bring up Nazi's in the Ukraine as if its some kind justification to not help Ukraine or excuse why Russia invaded Ukraine.
Those people would sure would be surprised if they found out how may Nazis are in America. Hell we have sitting politicians who have rallys and dinners with Nazis. We have even more who won't condemn them and say stuff like "some of them are very fine people".
Unfortunately Nazis are in every country around the world.

Even and especially Russia. But SFL won’t comment on any of this because it doesn’t fit the narrative he has been carefully spoon fed by Russian sympathizers.

 

[UriUT]

Russia’s Ex-Foreign Minister on His ‘Totalitarian’ Country

Andrei Kozyrev, Yeltsin’s first top diplomat, speaks about Putin’s ‘disastrous’ war in Ukraine and why the revisionist history about NATO enlargement is all wrong.

newlinesmag.com

This is an interview with Andrei Kozyrev, Yeltsin's foreign mininster.

Eastern European countries that joined NATO were not, contra a lot of heated rhetoric on the subject, simply gobbled up by it. “They wanted to be in NATO, and at first America and its partners didn’t want to take them in. But they had no choice, because they couldn’t deny membership for qualified liberal democracies. The same way they can’t deny it for Ukraine.”

The big mistake was placing Russia on a “low-burner process” toward partnership with, if not membership in, the alliance, Kozyrev says. “The very idea that NATO was the source of trouble is based on the old Soviet enemy image of it, an image which never changed and is now exploited by all the old customers from the KGB.”

“If NATO dissolved tomorrow, they would still claim the West was the enemy of Russia.”

He also talks about Russian cooperation and possible acceptance into the NATO alliance.

He brought up another reason why putin attacked ukraine. From the Arab spring, when Gaddafi was strung like a common thug, to Syria, and then to his doorsteps, ukraine, democracies were ousting autocratic rulers. He feared that Russia was next. This theory was brought by a few Russian experts, and it made sense. Putin's paranoia was evident when and how he reacted to hillary's speech.

The bottom line is, no matter the reason, the Ukrainian invasion by russia is an unprovoked war. That is wrong no matter what bs excuse it was to attack. We were wrong in Iraq, and we will live with it. That is the hypocrisy that these Russian apologist wrestles with daily. Mearsheimer and his bull realpolitik included. Smaller power should not be treated like pawns.

 

[efil4]

Russia’s Ex-Foreign Minister on His ‘Totalitarian’ Country

Andrei Kozyrev, Yeltsin’s first top diplomat, speaks about Putin’s ‘disastrous’ war in Ukraine and why the revisionist history about NATO enlargement is all wrong.

newlinesmag.com

This is an interview with Andrei Kozyrev, Yeltsin's foreign mininster.





He also talks about Russian cooperation and possible acceptance into the NATO alliance.

He brought up another reason why putin attacked ukraine. From the Arab spring, when Gaddafi was strung like a common thug, to Syria, and then to his doorsteps, ukraine, democracies were ousting autocratic rulers. He feared that Russia was next. This theory was brought by a few Russian experts, and it made sense. Putin's paranoia was evident when and how he reacted to hillary's speech.

The bottom line is, no matter the reason, the Ukrainian invasion by russia is an unprovoked war. That is wrong no matter what bs excuse it was to attack. We were wrong in Iraq, and we will live with it. That is the hypocrisy that these Russian apologist wrestles with daily. Mearsheimer and his bull realpolitik included. Smaller power should not be treated like pawns.

there is no greater threat to an autocrat than internal uprising.

none.

As we see here, placate the masses and you can toss 500,000 into a meat grinder of a war without a single ramification from within. ( well one small attempt but that was quickly put down and then unexpectedly the leader of said coup perishes in a plane crash caused by an explosion that was explained away as " someone on plane was playing with a grenade and it exploded " LOL )


There is a reason that 80-90% of the losses in Ukraine are men from regions EAST/SE of the URALS and not Moscow/St. Petersburg.