Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.

VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.

www.nytimes.com

Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

How to think about war in Ukraine

Start with the Ukrainians

snyder.substack.com

 

[bird]

I'm still waiting on your to respond to my hypothetical scenario of China entering a security pact with China and installing bases on our borders.

Do the facts you listed somehow discredit the leaked US cable by current CIA director that said Ukraine NATO membership was a red line for Russia and what Murphy admitted on TV about Ukraine. I've noticed yall have ignored that cable.

Take some time to consider Western hemisphere politics. Extreme hypotheticals are ridiculous. Russia, on the other hand, has made comments that directly threaten European countries that are NATO members already. One specific example is Poland regarding Kaliningrad.

 

[SaintForLife]

America wouldn't feel threatened about a DEFENSIVE security pact on our borders. I'm not a history buff, but I'm pretty sure the American-Mexican war ended before the civil war.

THERE WAS NO PLAN TO ADD UKRAINE TO NATO.

If you didn't get all your news from Glenn Greenwald, Tucker Carlson, and RT. You would know this fact. In reality, even in the current climate America is not sure about adding Ukraine to NATO.

U.S. and Germany Push to Delay Ukraine NATO Membership Invite

Ukraine and its Eastern European allies want the invite to come soon, but Washington and Berlin are wary.

foreignpolicy.com

That's how Russia pilled you are, and you come in here expecting serious discussions about your sickle, and hammer fever dreams.

Again, go back to RT, and stop posting this inane crap.

America wouldn't feel threatened by a defensive pact between China, Mexico and Canada with Chinese bases on our borders? Come on. That's laughable. Of course we would. Bay of Pigs...

What about the leaked US cable and what Murphy said? Cat got your tongue?

RT? Wow, what a great insult. Yawn

 

[efil4]

America wouldn't feel threatened about a DEFENSIVE security pact on our borders. I'm not a history buff, but I'm pretty sure the American-Mexican war ended before the civil war.

THERE WAS NO PLAN TO ADD UKRAINE TO NATO.

If you didn't get all your news from Glenn Greenwald, Tucker Carlson, and RT. You would know this fact. In reality, even in the current climate America is not sure about adding Ukraine to NATO.

U.S. and Germany Push to Delay Ukraine NATO Membership Invite

Ukraine and its Eastern European allies want the invite to come soon, but Washington and Berlin are wary.

foreignpolicy.com

That's how Russia pilled you are, and you come in here expecting serious discussions about your sickle, and hammer fever dreams.

Again, go back to RT, and stop posting this inane crap.

Take some time to consider Western hemisphere politics. Extreme hypotheticals are ridiculous. Russia, on the other hand, has made comments that directly threaten European countries that are NATO members already. One specific example is Poland regarding Kaliningrad.

Yall wasting your time. SFL is a shill. plain and simple.

Invoked the " why dont you be a man and fight "in a reply to me when he didnt even know i was US Army from 1989 thru 1996 and served my country. I just ignore him now because i come to the realization that he has no intention of dialogue or discussion. He thinks that Russia is the victim here, that the US is terrible and yet enjoys all the trappings the WEST has to offer without living in a town with no paved roads or indoor plumbing.

Sorta like the ENTIRE Russian elite- send kids OUT of Russia to study/live but pretend Russia is great. LOLOL.

 

[J-DONK]

America wouldn't feel threatened by a defensive pact between China, Mexico and Canada with Chinese bases on our borders? Come on. That's laughable. Of course we would. Bay of Pigs...

What about the leaked US cable and what Murphy said? Cat got your tongue?

RT? Wow, what a great insult. Yawn

Why do you keep treating that leaked cable like some gotcha?

America declined NATO membership to both Ukraine, and Georgia at that summit.

The maidan coup was about the current president backing out of closer economic ties with the EU.

Why do you keep bringing up NATO like some dolt? Are you braindead?

 

[SaintForLife]

Yall wasting your time. SFL is a shill. plain and simple.

Invoked the " why dont you be a man and fight "in a reply to me when he didnt even know i was US Army from 1989 thru 1996 and served my country. I just ignore him now because i come to the realization that he has no intention of dialogue or discussion. He thinks that Russia is the victim here, that the US is terrible and yet enjoys all the trappings the WEST has to offer without living in a town with no paved roads or indoor plumbing.

Sorta like the ENTIRE Russian elite- send kids OUT of Russia to study/live but pretend Russia is great. LOLOL.

You previously serving in the military doesn't have anything to do with me suggesting you go fight on the front lines since you are so gung ho about the war.

It's quite different to cheer for a war with all it's death and destruction when you are safe and far away from any violence. I bet if you had son in the Ukrainian military you wouldn't be so cavalier about the war.

I've never said Russia is the victim, but I understand the need for you to create a strawman for your argument.

I think the US foreign policy and the majority of our politicians are terrible. I don't think our country is terrible. I want us to act like a regular country and not meddle in every countries affairs and only enter a war if we are legitimately threatened. I want my kids to have good living conditions and a stable economy.

I would agrue that the people who always and uncritically support the forever war movement and enriching the military industrial complex at the cost of our soldiers are the ones who are Anti-American.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I'm still waiting on your to respond to my hypothetical scenario of China entering a security pact with Canada and Mexico and installing bases on our borders.

Do the facts you listed somehow discredit the leaked US cable by current CIA director that said Ukraine NATO membership was a red line for Russia and what Murphy admitted on TV about Ukraine. I've noticed yall have ignored that cable.

The naivety of you and many others who think the one country that is involved in just about every military engagement in the world is somehow just doing it to protect democracy and other altruistic reasons.

Stuck on hypotheticals while ignoring reality, and the reality is that since the fall of the Soviet Union, Putin HAS routinely invaded and occupied multiple former Soviet states. You and your comrades willingly ignore those facts, all while painting Putin as a victim of American aggression.

But to understand the stupid hypothetical, you need to define the conditions of such an alliance between these two N. American countries and China. What made Canada leave NATO and seek an alliance with China? What is China's motivation to divert valuable resources into Mexico? Why would Mexico accept an alliance with China? Is China more willing to secure Mexico's S. American border?

Or...are we jut playing Risk here?

 

[J-DONK]

You previously serving in the military doesn't have anything to do with me suggesting you go fight on the front lines since you are so gung ho about the war.

It's quite different to cheer for a war with all it's death and destruction when you are safe and far away from any violence. I bet if you had son in the Ukrainian military you wouldn't be so cavalier about the war.

I've never said Russia is the victim, but I understand the need for you to create a strawman for your argument.

I think the US foreign policy and the majority of our politicians are terrible. I don't think our country is terrible. I want us to act like a regular country and not meddle in every countries affairs and only enter a war if we are legitimately threatened. I want my kids to have good living conditions and a stable economy.

I would agrue that the people who always and uncritically support the forever war movement and enriching the military industrial complex at the cost of our soldiers are the ones who are Anti-American.

If you really believed this, you would think Jimmy Carter would be your hero.

I just went and did a search on the site.

Does anyone on this board want to guess how many times SFL has talked about Jimmy Carter?

Zero.

If I search for Jimmy Carter, zero results. If I search for Jimmy I get Jimmy Kimmell/Dore. If I search for Carter, it's all SFL defending Carter Paige.

You are anti-war right now, the way you are anti-corruption when a democrat gets caught.

Dude this entire board knows you don't actually care.

 

[efil4]

You previously serving in the military doesn't have anything to do with me suggesting you go fight on the front lines since you are so gung ho about the war.

It's quite different to cheer for a war with all it's death and destruction when you are safe and far away from any violence. I bet if you had son in the Ukrainian military you wouldn't be so cavalier about the war.

I've never said Russia is the victim, but I understand the need for you to create a strawman for your argument.

I think the US foreign policy and the majority of our politicians are terrible. I don't think our country is terrible. I want us to act like a regular country and not meddle in every countries affairs and only enter a war if we are legitimately threatened. I want my kids to have good living conditions and a stable economy.

I would agrue that the people who always and uncritically support the forever war movement and enriching the military industrial complex at the cost of our soldiers are the ones who are Anti-American.

you know very little about me and my character. Stick to posting your regurgitated drivel.

 

[MT15]

Ukraine was denied membership in NATO more than once, and there was no activity ongoing to add Ukraine when Putin invaded.

Saying that membership in NATO is a “red line” for Putin does not prove any sort of point that you have ever made. It is merely acknowledging that Putin is using that piece of propaganda to justify his war and his war crimes. As do you.

This is why you get called out for regurgitating Russian propaganda. Because you do. It’s not a personal attack like you say, it’s a simple observation of what you do.

What you post in response are personal attacks, though. You call people war mongers and insult us daily. You denigrate our experiences and call us names. Your posts are pretty worthless, IMO.

 

[efil4]

This is why you get called out for regurgitating Russian propaganda. Because you do. It’s not a personal attack like you say, it’s a simple observation of what you do.

Well its "personal" to him- because he knows what he is doing. Ergo its "personal" being called out on the things a person does. ad nauseam.

 

[SaintForLife]

Why do you keep treating that leaked cable like some gotcha?

America declined NATO membership to both Ukraine, and Georgia at that summit.

The maidan coup was about the current president backing out of closer economic ties with the EU.

Why do you keep bringing up NATO like some dolt? Are you braindead?

That leaked cable shows that Ukraine NATO membership being a red line. Yall have all been telling me that wasn't and would be be involved in picking Ukraine's new government.

I'll keep posting about those 2 subjects if yall keep claiming that NATO wasn't the reason for Russia invading and that we had no involvement in the coup with Ukraine.

 

[SaintForLife]

Stuck on hypotheticals while ignoring reality, and the reality is that since the fall of the Soviet Union, Putin HAS routinely invaded and occupied multiple former Soviet states. You and your comrades willingly ignore those facts, all while painting Putin as a victim of American aggression.

But to understand the stupid hypothetical, you need to define the conditions of such an alliance between these two N. American countries and China. What made Canada leave NATO and seek an alliance with China? What is China's motivation to divert valuable resources into Mexico? Why would Mexico accept an alliance with China? Is China more willing to secure Mexico's S. American border?

Or...are we jut playing Risk here?

It's a hypothetical and the details you asked for aren't necessary for the discussion. I simply asked if the US would consider it a national security threat if China entered a defense pact with Canada and Mexico and China put 50 bases along our border. The details about how they got there doesn't matter.

The answer is a resounding yes. I mean we almost went to nuclear war with Russia over them being in Cuba.

 

[coldseat]

That leaked cable shows that Ukraine NATO membership being a red line. Yall have all been telling me that wasn't and would be be involved in picking Ukraine's new government.

I'll keep posting about those 2 subjects if yall keep claiming that NATO wasn't the reason for Russia invading and that we had no involvement in the coup with Ukraine.

NATO wasn't the reason for Russia invading Ukraine and we had no involvement in the coup with Ukraine.

If I remember correctly, Putin stated that the reason he invaded Ukraine was to stop the Nazi's or some such BS. His only true reason was for territorial gain.

 

[J-DONK]

NATO wasn't the reason for Russia invading Ukraine and we had no involvement in the coup with Ukraine.

If I remember correctly, Putin stated that the reason he invaded Ukraine was to stop the Nazi's or some such BS. His only true reason was for territorial gain.

This was actually the reason why Russia freaked out, and invaded.

European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

SFL is so conservative boomer American he can't contemplate a world were two European countries went to war over European interest, and influence. What a sad sad sad man, very sad, some say the saddest.

 

[SaintForLife]

If you really believed this, you would think Jimmy Carter would be your hero.

I just went and did a search on the site.

Does anyone on this board want to guess how many times SFL has talked about Jimmy Carter?

Zero.

If I search for Jimmy Carter, zero results. If I search for Jimmy I get Jimmy Kimmell/Dore. If I search for Carter, it's all SFL defending Carter Paige.

You are anti-war right now, the way you are anti-corruption when a democrat gets caught.

Dude this entire board knows you don't actually care.

What an idiotic premise lol.

I didn't even follow politics until after 9/11.

I wasn't antiwar until after the Iraq War.

Before I became antiwar I was a typical Republican who supported war and the US foreign policy.

Knowing those facts, why in the world do you think I would post about someone who was a President a few years after I was born?

I post about current events and other things I n the past that relate to that. If Jimmy Carter ever comes up in those discussions I will gladly praise him as antiwar.

 

[DaveXA]

This was actually the reason why Russia freaked out, and invaded.

European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

SFL is so conservative boomer American he can't contemplate a world were two European countries went to war over European interest, and influence. What a sad sad sad man, very sad, some say the saddest.

He's "anti-war!" can no amount of facts will convince him otherwise. And he's a Poots shill because he can't bring himself to accept that Russia, and Russia alone was responsible for invading a sovereign nation. He's just so far jaded that he'll spew nonsensical talking points to support his narrative. And he claims his points haven't been debunked and keeps moving the goal posts around because he doesn't want to get trapped in his web of lies. It's the work of a Russian troll, or it might as well be.

 

[J-DONK]

What an idiotic premise lol.

I didn't even follow politics until after 9/11.

I wasn't antiwar until after the Iraq War.

Before I became antiwar I was a typical Republican who supported war and the US foreign policy.

Knowing those facts, why in the world do you think I would post about someone who was a President a few years after I was born?

I post about current events and other things I n the past that relate to that. If Jimmy Carter ever comes up in those discussions I will gladly praise him as antiwar.

Jimmy Cater is the paragon of a president to peace doves. Ok ,maybe you weren't alive for that. Surely, you praised Biden pulling out of the ME? No? Well you at least didn't criticize the democratic administration for ending the forever wars? Oh God, you did.

Who knows. Speaking of Afghanistan...

Edit to add: SFL did someone take over your account during this period? You can't both be the same guy.

 

[bird]

You previously serving in the military doesn't have anything to do with me suggesting you go fight on the front lines since you are so gung ho about the war.

It's quite different to cheer for a war with all it's death and destruction when you are safe and far away from any violence. I bet if you had son in the Ukrainian military you wouldn't be so cavalier about the war.

I've never said Russia is the victim, but I understand the need for you to create a strawman for your argument.

I think the US foreign policy and the majority of our politicians are terrible. I don't think our country is terrible. I want us to act like a regular country and not meddle in every countries affairs and only enter a war if we are legitimately threatened. I want my kids to have good living conditions and a stable economy.

I would agrue that the people who always and uncritically support the forever war movement and enriching the military industrial complex at the cost of our soldiers are the ones who are Anti-American.

The world doesn’t work that way. Like it or not we play a role that has developed over 2 centuries. This is not the same as the English, Spanish, Russian or Soviet empires. Are there flaws? You bet there are. But sticking our heads in the sand will not make those problems go away. I do, in fact, favor altering foreign policy. Of course, foreign policy is projected domestic policy in many instances. A good example of that is Cuba. We should have full and complete relations with Cuba but it is beneficial to some, usually Republican, politicians to maintain the status quo.