Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.

VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.

www.nytimes.com

Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

How to think about war in Ukraine

Start with the Ukrainians

snyder.substack.com

 

[J-DONK]

Time Magazine reports that Ukraine struggles to rally financial support after its failed counteroffensive and amid allegations of widespread corruption.

• A top Ukrainian presidential advisor warns that "people are stealing like there's no tomorrow" when asked about bribes and corruption.

• 59% of Americans don't want Congress to provide more weapons to Kyiv, up from 35% in June.

• The southeastern fifth of Ukraine, where the population is predominantly Russian speakers, remains under Russian control.

• Zelensky's close advisor warns that “He deludes himself. We’re out of options. We’re not winning. But try telling him that.”

• Ukraine's shortage of soldiers is more dire than its deficit in arms and ammunition. Draft officers pull men off trains and buses and send them to the front.

• The death toll has long surpassed 100,000 on each side of the war, forcing the draft of the elderly, raising the average age of a Ukrainian soldier to around 43 years.

• Corruption remains widespread despite Zelensky firing numerous officers and the Defense Minister.

• Zelensky is worried that the focus of Ukraine’s allies in the U.S. and Europe and of the global media has already shifted to Israel, Palestine, and the Gaza Strip.


Article:

Inside Volodymyr Zelensky’s Struggle to Keep Ukraine in the Fight

“Nobody believes in our victory like I do. Nobody,” Zelensky told TIME in an interview after his trip to Washington, D.C.

time.com

The author of this article also wrote this gem:

Many Ukrainians Want Russia To Invade

Across Ukraine's eastern and southern provinces, hundreds of thousands of people gathered to welcome the Kremlin's talk of protecting pro-Russian Ukrainians against the revolution that brought a new government to power

time.com

 

[DaveXA]

The author of this article also wrote this gem:

Many Ukrainians Want Russia To Invade

Across Ukraine's eastern and southern provinces, hundreds of thousands of people gathered to welcome the Kremlin's talk of protecting pro-Russian Ukrainians against the revolution that brought a new government to power

time.com

 

[Dragon]

From 2014....

 

[DaveXA]

From 2014....

Yes, and?

 

[UriUT]

close aid? no name?

so let me get this right...a "source" that aligns with your beliefs, is ok.

A source that DOESNT align with your beliefs, not ok. A fraud. A liar.

LOL. you are quite the propagandist, ill give you that. What i find truly amazing is none, and i mean none of it is your own words. Its ALWAYS someone elses words and you just drop it in as if its some "gotcha" moment.

All the while, Putin had based the entire conflict on this very facet of US/West sentiment....time was ALWAYS on his side. He doesnt care if he loses 600,000 men, if it means that the US/West will ultimately tire, waver and leave Ukraine to its own devices at which point Putin has won. The beauty of being a dictator is knowing you can do anything and no one will check you.

Congrats on feeding that machine.

Standard operating procedure of the right. Declare a thing ineffectual and at times an enemy of the people. Then take over the thing and prove the thing is indeed ineffectual by shear incompetence or willful negligence.

In this case, choke off the US aid and then declare that Ukraine doesn't have support any longer because aid is falling. Fortunately, despite the shirt show in DC, particularly these clowns in the house, the EU have take up the slack. And I don't have the latest figures but they may have surpassed the US in aid to Ukraine not long ago.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Time Magazine reports that Ukraine struggles to rally financial support after its failed counteroffensive and amid allegations of widespread corruption.

• A top Ukrainian presidential advisor warns that "people are stealing like there's no tomorrow" when asked about bribes and corruption.

• 59% of Americans don't want Congress to provide more weapons to Kyiv, up from 35% in June.

• The southeastern fifth of Ukraine, where the population is predominantly Russian speakers, remains under Russian control.

• Zelensky's close advisor warns that “He deludes himself. We’re out of options. We’re not winning. But try telling him that.”

• Ukraine's shortage of soldiers is more dire than its deficit in arms and ammunition. Draft officers pull men off trains and buses and send them to the front.

• The death toll has long surpassed 100,000 on each side of the war, forcing the draft of the elderly, raising the average age of a Ukrainian soldier to around 43 years.

• Corruption remains widespread despite Zelensky firing numerous officers and the Defense Minister.

• Zelensky is worried that the focus of Ukraine’s allies in the U.S. and Europe and of the global media has already shifted to Israel, Palestine, and the Gaza Strip.


Article:

Inside Volodymyr Zelensky’s Struggle to Keep Ukraine in the Fight

“Nobody believes in our victory like I do. Nobody,” Zelensky told TIME in an interview after his trip to Washington, D.C.

time.com

poor good ol uncorrupt and wholesome Russia just being victimized my mean ol corrupt Nazi ridden Ukraine,,,

 

[J-DONK]

Standard operating procedure of the right. Declare a thing ineffectual and at times an enemy of the people. Then take over the thing and prove the thing is indeed ineffectual by shear incompetence or willful negligence.

In this case, choke off the US aid and then declare that Ukraine doesn't have support any longer because aid is falling. Fortunately, despite the shirt show in DC, particularly these clowns in the house, the EU have take up the slack. And I don't have the latest figures but they may have surpassed the US in aid to Ukraine not long ago.

I know Republicans fear a Ukrainian victory, and what that means for 2024. I get it. Be honest about it, and just own it. Does Ukraine still have some corruption, and probably some white supremacist in it's country? I'm sure. They seem to be consistently combating corruption. This is light years ahead of any country in the ME(sans Israel) that we have partnered with, or occupied.

I just can't seriously listen to this when the same group criticized Biden for leaving Afghanistan. Also, they never meet a defense spending bill they didn't love.

 

[RebSaint]

lol. How dumb, if you know any history.

Some Urkranians wanted the Nazis to invade to free them from Soviet authoritarianism. Some Ukrainians wanted the Nazis to invade to exact pogroms against ethnic (esp. Jewish) minorities themselves.

Most Urkanians wanted to the Soviets to get rid of the Nazis and go back to a "milder" form of authoritarianism and a police state.

I just painted a rather rough outline of where lots of Urkranians were before, during and towards the end of WWII.

It doesn't take too much critical thinking to come to the conclusion that most Urkranians have had enough of authoritarianism and colonial, or outside rule, and as a country who ostensibly has supported sovereign, representative democracy, we should support them too.

But the authoritarian rot has consumed so much of the right wing that even on this issue, they sympathize with the authoritarians.

 

[RebSaint]

close aid? no name?

so let me get this right...a "source" that aligns with your beliefs, is ok.

A source that DOESNT align with your beliefs, not ok. A fraud. A liar.

LOL. you are quite the propagandist, ill give you that. What i find truly amazing is none, and i mean none of it is your own words. Its ALWAYS someone elses words and you just drop it in as if its some "gotcha" moment.

All the while, Putin had based the entire conflict on this very facet of US/West sentiment....time was ALWAYS on his side. He doesnt care if he loses 600,000 men, if it means that the US/West will ultimately tire, waver and leave Ukraine to its own devices at which point Putin has won. The beauty of being a dictator is knowing you can do anything and no one will check you.

Congrats on feeding that machine.

Isn't Time magazine part of the "corporate" media? lol.

 

[efil4]

Isn't Time magazine part of the "corporate" media? lol.

of course it is.

unless it fits neatly into their narrative.

its exhausting at times.

 

[bdb13]

A pretty sobering assessment of where the war currently stands from the commander-in-chief of Ukraine's armed forces:

Ukraine's counteroffensive against Russian forces has reached a stalemate, a top Ukrainian general said in an interview published this week.
...
What he's saying: "There will most likely be no deep and beautiful breakthrough," Valery Zaluzhny, the commander-in-chief of Ukraine's armed forces, told the Economist in an interview published Wednesday.
...

Ukraine had underestimated Russia's ability to tolerate massive casualties among troops, he said, adding that Ukraine's forces has progressed more slowly than anticipated.​

A technological breakthrough is needed to break the stalemate, according to Zaluzhny.​

...
Between the lines: Zaluzhny's comments on the counteroffensive break with previous, more positive assessments offered by Ukrainian and U.S. officials.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky stressed in September that his country's counteroffensive was "moving forward."​

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken echoed the sentiment that same month, saying that the counteroffensive had made "good progress" since June.​

Blinken wrote on X in October that Ukraine had reclaimed half of the territory seized by Russia since 2022.​

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/02/ukraine-russia-war-stalemate-counteroffensive-aid

 

[SaintForLife]

A pretty sobering assessment of where the war currently stands from the commander-in-chief of Ukraine's armed forces:

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/02/ukraine-russia-war-stalemate-counteroffensive-aid

I wonder why you aren't called a propagandist by the usual suspects for posting something similar to what I posted earlier in this thread?

Oh look, CNN reported on the same Time article I posted.


It's hilarious to hear people talk about the authoritarianism on the right when the Biden Administration and/or Democrats offer nothing better than competing authoritarianism:

- got caught violating the 1st ammendment in pressuring social media companies to censor and/or ban people posts including accurate information.

-forced people to take the Covid vaccine if they wanted to keep their jobs

-used federal counterterrorism resources against parents who spoke out at school board meetings

-colluded with the 51 disgraced intelligence officials to claim the laptop was Russian disinformation to influence the election

-is trying to throw his political opponent in jail

-want to break norms & expand the court and term limits now that it has a conservative majority

-tried to forgive half a trillion in student loans and start a national eviction moratorium without a vote in Congress

-pressuring journalists to try to build a case against Julian Assange

-having the FBI target Trump supporters in relation to the 2024 election

-tried to institute a government disinformation board


Also, The corporate media pushes a government/rich people/powerful companies narrative. That doesn't mean everything they report is inaccurate. But on the biggest issues that affect our lives, especially involving big amounts of money, the corporate media advance propaganda that can only be topped by the US government.

 

[efil4]

I wonder why you aren't called a propagandist by the usual suspects for posting something similar to what I posted earlier in this thread?

Oh look, CNN reported on the same Time article I posted.


It's hilarious to hear people talk about the authoritarianism on the right when the Biden Administration and/or Democrats offer nothing better than competing authoritarianism:

- got caught violating the 1st ammendment in pressuring social media companies to censor and/or ban people posts including accurate information.

-forced people to take the Covid vaccine if they wanted to keep their jobs

-used federal counterterrorism resources against parents who spoke out at school board meetings

-colluded with the 51 disgraced intelligence officials to claim the laptop was Russian disinformation to influence the election

-is trying to throw his political opponent in jail

-want to break norms & expand the court and term limits now that it has a conservative majority

-tried to forgive half a trillion in student loans and start a national eviction moratorium without a vote in Congress

-pressuring journalists to try to build a case against Julian Assange

-having the FBI target Trump supporters in relation to the 2024 election

-tried to institute a government disinformation board


Also, The corporate media pushes a government/rich people/powerful companies narrative. That doesn't mean everything they report is inaccurate. But on the biggest issues that affect our lives, especially involving big amounts of money, the corporate media advance propaganda that can only be topped by the US government.

Looks like someone got an email from another with bullet points -

btw- the LEAST you could do is amend the "Also, The corporate media...." so as not to be completely obvious to english speakers how terrible grammar points to non-english speaking author

 

[coldseat]

I wonder why you aren't called a propagandist by the usual suspects for posting something similar to what I posted earlier in this thread?

Oh look, CNN reported on the same Time article I posted.


It's hilarious to hear people talk about the authoritarianism on the right when the Biden Administration and/or Democrats offer nothing better than competing authoritarianism:

- got caught violating the 1st ammendment in pressuring social media companies to censor and/or ban people posts including accurate information.

-forced people to take the Covid vaccine if they wanted to keep their jobs

-used federal counterterrorism resources against parents who spoke out at school board meetings

-colluded with the 51 disgraced intelligence officials to claim the laptop was Russian disinformation to influence the election

-is trying to throw his political opponent in jail

-want to break norms & expand the court and term limits now that it has a conservative majority

-tried to forgive half a trillion in student loans and start a national eviction moratorium without a vote in Congress

-pressuring journalists to try to build a case against Julian Assange

-having the FBI target Trump supporters in relation to the 2024 election

-tried to institute a government disinformation board


Also, The corporate media pushes a government/rich people/powerful companies narrative. That doesn't mean everything they report is inaccurate. But on the biggest issues that affect our lives, especially involving big amounts of money, the corporate media advance propaganda that can only be topped by the US government.

Yeah, completely accurate and totally the same thing as Trump . I love that Trump facing multiple indictments for his numerous crimes equates to Biden trying to throw his political opponent in jail. You really do feed hard off the right wing propaganda.

 

[SaintForLife]

"Just like the US helped destroy Syria in the name of protecting it, helped destroy Libya in the name of liberating it, helped destroy Iraq in the name of freeing it...

If you can just take a step back and not let yourself be emotionally manipulated by war propaganda, you'll be able to see exactly what you're being induced to do again."

 

[MT15]

I wonder why you aren't called a propagandist by the usual suspects

Because he is a great poster who generally posts his opinions and not talking points and propaganda? Just a hunch…..

 

[Taurus]

"Just like the US helped destroy Syria in the name of protecting it, helped destroy Libya in the name of liberating it, helped destroy Iraq in the name of freeing it...

If you can just take a step back and not let yourself be emotionally manipulated by war propaganda, you'll be able to see exactly what you're being induced to do again."

And?

What's the upside to giving Ukraine to Putin?

If it's saving Ukrainian lives, I'd argue the Ukrainians themselves are the only ones with the right to determine what they're worth.

If it's American lives, we aren't spending any.

If it's money, this war is an incredible value. Real-world testing of tactics and systems, done by a military full of innovators who're freely sharing their data with us. We could spend twice the money and lose ten times more troops to obtain less and inferior data with large scale training exercises.

Other than making Cheato Jesus happy, I'm not seeing any good reason to wish the Russians success.

 

[MT15]

Yeah, completely accurate and totally the same thing as Trump . I love that Trump facing multiple indictments for his numerous crimes equates to Biden trying to throw his political opponent in jail. You really do feed hard off the right wing propaganda.

Not to mention no president has ever abused the DOJ like Trump did. He used it to quash investigations into his buddies and throw his enemies into jail. He used the IRS to do exhaustive audits of his perceived enemies. Nobody is as corrupt as Trump, so therefore the propaganda machine has to go into overdrive to try to find anything on Biden. It’s totally transparent to anyone who isn’t drinking the kool-aid.