Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (29 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.

VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.

www.nytimes.com

Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

How to think about war in Ukraine

Start with the Ukrainians

snyder.substack.com

 

[SaintForLife]

Lol. You and your alternative "facts".

And twice, they were lame attempts at debunking something I said.

Keep moving them goal posts I guess. Maybe you've stated it already, but what do you think is the justification for invading Ukraine? And since you've stated you're anti-war, why haven't you made a case for Russia withdrawing from Ukraine?

And? You actually think many of those people are Nazis? I mean, it's humanitarian aid. I think you're just looking to make excuses for Russia.

Lame attempts at debunking? It was very easy to show what you said wasn't true. What alternate facts? Are you talking about the articles that showed what you said wasn't true?

 

[SaintForLife]

Lol so you now admit she ISNT official journalist??? Just offering an opinion. Noted.

Define official journalist.

 

[MT15]

SFL. The facts don’t support your narrative. You can find any number of people who are Putin apologists to parrot the Russian propaganda, or twist people’s words to support Putin, but it doesn’t “prove” anything. You are posting opinions, largely, not facts.

The opinion that NATO caused the invasion of Ukraine is so twisted that nobody with any clarity at all would treat it seriously. It’s the same argument an abuser tells his victim after they beat them up: “look what you made me do.”

There is no reason to invade a smaller, weaker country who has never threatened your country. None. You say you are against war, but the fact that you even entertain this transparent Kremlin propaganda tells me you are just another Putin apologist. You aren’t against war so much as you just think Putin should be able to take what he wants by force.

 

[efil4]

Because of NATO. I posted it earlier in this thread. The NATO secretary General NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines, & Russia expert Fiona Hill all said it was because of NATO.

When officials say the quiet part about Russia and NATO out loud

Was the invasion about the alliance's expansion to Moscow's doorstep? Depends on who's telling the story.

responsiblestatecraft.org

I knew the answer. Just wanted to make sure.

And lolol. You peddle the same thing you buy...propaganda

 

[DaveXA]

So...Ukraine full of Nazis huh?

 

[J-DONK]

So...Ukraine full of Nazis huh?

Wait until SFL finds out about Zelinksy's heritage. He is going to have venture outside of Glen Greenwald's twitter feed though.

 

[SaintForLife]

SFL. The facts don’t support your narrative. You can find any number of people who are Putin apologists to parrot the Russian propaganda, or twist people’s words to support Putin, but it doesn’t “prove” anything. You are posting opinions, largely, not facts.

The opinion that NATO caused the invasion of Ukraine is so twisted that nobody with any clarity at all would treat it seriously. It’s the same argument an abuser tells his victim after they beat them up: “look what you made me do.”

There is no reason to invade a smaller, weaker country who has never threatened your country. None. You say you are against war, but the fact that you even entertain this transparent Kremlin propaganda tells me you are just another Putin apologist. You aren’t against war so much as you just think Putin should be able to take what he wants by force.

I knew the answer. Just wanted to make sure.

And lolol. You peddle the same thing you buy...propaganda

Are the NATO secretary General NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines, & Russia expert Fiona Hill all "Putin apologists" because they all said it was because of NATO?

Please tell me how the NATO Secretary General saying it was because of NATO squares with your incorrect claim that the facts aren't on my side?

Be specific. No vague word salads like you usually post. If you aren't specific with why the 3 people I listed are "Putin apologists" and how what they said isn't true I'll assume you are lying on purpose for political reasons.

Wouldn't they know more than you about this subject?

 

[SaintForLife]

So...Ukraine full of Nazis huh?

Do you still want to keep digging this whole after I twice showed what you claimed wasn't true?

How do those signs in support of Isreal mean there aren't any Nazi's in Ukraine? It's ironic how concerned yall are about the white supremacists/Nazis in the US, but for the Nazis in Ukraine all yall can must is a collective shrug.

 

[efil4]

Are the NATO secretary General NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines, & Russia expert Fiona Hill all "Putin apologists" because they all said it was because of NATO?

Please tell me how the NATO Secretary General saying it was because of NATO squares with your incorrect claim that the facts aren't on my side?

Be specific. No vague word salads like you usually post. If you aren't specific with why the 3 people I listed are "Putin apologists" and how what they said isn't true I'll assume you are lying on purpose for political reasons.

Wouldn't they know more than you about this subject?

For someone who has as much distrust for intelligence community as you do, it is amazing that when it fits your narrative, you have an epiphany of sorts and find them legitimate.

Uh-mazing.

 

[MT15]

Are the NATO secretary General NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines, & Russia expert Fiona Hill all "Putin apologists" because they all said it was because of NATO?

Please tell me how the NATO Secretary General saying it was because of NATO squares with your incorrect claim that the facts aren't on my side?

Be specific. No vague word salads like you usually post. If you aren't specific with why the 3 people I listed are "Putin apologists" and how what they said isn't true I'll assume you are lying on purpose for political reasons.

Wouldn't they know more than you about this subject?

What was said by Stoltenberg is that Putin used the expansion of NATO as an excuse. And he did use that excuse. But it is a really stupid excuse and it makes zero sense.

You will have to show me where Haines said that, because in your article she is only quoted as saying that after the initial invasion failed to conquer Ukraine it is likely that Putin has scaled back his goals to simply avoiding Ukraine’s entry into NATO.

What Hill said, according to your article, is that Putin considered possible expansion of NATO to be a provocation. Which is the same thing as what Stoltenberg said. Putin didn’t like it. That doesn’t mean it truly is a provocation, just that Putin says it is.

Explain to me how a nation’s belonging to a DEFENSE treaty poses a threat to any neighbor? Has NATO ever, even once, been the aggressor, has it ever invaded any neighboring state?

Russia has absolutely nothing to fear from being surrounded by NATO countries.

What Putin actually didn’t like was that these weaker countries that used to be part of the USSR wouldn’t be sitting ducks for him any longer once they join NATO. He didn’t like that the US would stop him from invading and conquering them to serve his own evil purposes.

So if a murderous dictator says he doesn’t want neighboring sovereign states to exercise their own free will to join a defense agreement or not - are you saying he should get his way? That he is somehow justified in invading because he didn’t get to force these neighbors to do what he wants?

Answer that question.

 

[efil4]

Are the NATO secretary General NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines, & Russia expert Fiona Hill all "Putin apologists" because they all said it was because of NATO?

Please tell me how the NATO Secretary General saying it was because of NATO squares with your incorrect claim that the facts aren't on my side?

Be specific. No vague word salads like you usually post. If you aren't specific with why the 3 people I listed are "Putin apologists" and how what they said isn't true I'll assume you are lying on purpose for political reasons.

Wouldn't they know more than you about this subject?

FRONTLINE | Putin's Road to War | Season 2022 | Episode 2

FRONTLINE tells the story of what led to Vladimir Putin’s war on Ukraine.

www.pbs.org

 

[DaveXA]

Do you still want to keep digging this whole after I twice showed what you claimed wasn't true?

How do those signs in support of Isreal mean there aren't any Nazi's in Ukraine? It's ironic how concerned yall are about the white supremacists/Nazis in the US, but for the Nazis in Ukraine all yall can must is a collective shrug.

Because they weren't true. A snapshot of something doesn't make your assertion true. Those signs are in Kiev, the Capitol of Ukraine. The large majority of Ukranians are not Nazis. Is there a problem with Nazism? Sure, it's present in every country in Europe, some more than others, and in Ukraine, it's not outside the usual percentage found anywhere else despite your unfounded assertions, and worse, Russian assumptions. So piss off with your Russian propaganda nonsense.

We're concerned with them here and concerned with them there, but they aren't a large percentage of the population here, and same in Ukraine. But your insistence on treating them differently tells me all I need to know.

 

[DaveXA]

FRONTLINE | Putin's Road to War | Season 2022 | Episode 2

FRONTLINE tells the story of what led to Vladimir Putin’s war on Ukraine.

www.pbs.org

He's gonna claim that's CIA propaganda, yeah.

 

[DaveXA]

Are the NATO secretary General NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines, & Russia expert Fiona Hill all "Putin apologists" because they all said it was because of NATO?

Please tell me how the NATO Secretary General saying it was because of NATO squares with your incorrect claim that the facts aren't on my side?

Be specific. No vague word salads like you usually post. If you aren't specific with why the 3 people I listed are "Putin apologists" and how what they said isn't true I'll assume you are lying on purpose for political reasons.

Wouldn't they know more than you about this subject?

Pretty sure they said Putin's excuse was NATO. But I don't think any of them are actually buying what Poots is selling.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

What was said by Stoltenberg is that Putin used the expansion of NATO as an excuse. And he did use that excuse. But it is a really stupid excuse and it makes zero sense.

You will have to show me where Haines said that, because in your article she is only quoted as saying that after the initial invasion failed to conquer Ukraine it is likely that Putin has scaled back his goals to simply avoiding Ukraine’s entry into NATO.

What Hill said, according to your article, is that Putin considered possible expansion of NATO to be a provocation. Which is the same thing as what Stoltenberg said. Putin didn’t like it. That doesn’t mean it truly is a provocation, just that Putin says it is.

Explain to me how a nation’s belonging to a DEFENSE treaty poses a threat to any neighbor? Has NATO ever, even once, been the aggressor, has it ever invaded any neighboring state?

Russia has absolutely nothing to fear from being surrounded by NATO countries.

What Putin actually didn’t like was that these weaker countries that used to be part of the USSR wouldn’t be sitting ducks for him any longer once they join NATO. He didn’t like that the US would stop him from invading and conquering them to serve his own evil purposes.

So if a murderous dictator says he doesn’t want neighboring sovereign states to exercise their own free will to join a defense agreement or not - are you saying he should get his way? That he is somehow justified in invading because he didn’t get to force these neighbors to do what he wants?

Answer that question.

Pretty sure they said Putin's excuse was NATO. But I don't think any of them are actually buying what Poots is selling.

I mean... that was pretty obvious from a cursory reading of that piece he posted, right? I've been trying to avoid being dragged into his nonsense, but I decided to come post exactly this, only y'all beat me to it.

 

[efil4]

He's gonna claim that's CIA propaganda, yeah.

He won't watch it. It's 54 min. 53 more than he can sit thru before being tasked with more Greenwald tweets and miscellaneous propaganda to spew.

A shame really.

 

[DaveXA]

He won't watch it. It's 54 min. 53 more than he can sit thru before being tasked with more Greenwald tweets and miscellaneous propaganda to spew.

A shame really.

I'm convinced he's trolling. His nonsense has to be debunked, but it's all disingenuous to me.

 

[zztop]

French police are probing possible poisoning of Russian journalist who denounced Ukraine war

Ovsyannikova drew international attention in after appearing behind the anchor of an evening Russian news broadcast with a sign that said, "Stop the war, don't believe the propaganda, they are lying to you here."

www.pbs.org