Increasing racist attacks on Asians (3 Viewers)

[Farb]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/09/attacks-asian-american-elderly-/

I will admit, I didn't know anything about these these strings of attacks and the murder of elderly Asian American out west. Really disturbing. In most cases, they have caught sub human scum that have committed these crimes.
In the case of the murder of Ratanapakdee, I sincerely hope the death penalty will be sought, although that is not possible in the state of CA.

 

[brandon]

So, if someone tells you an action you are performing will hurt people, and you continue to do it, you should really be sure that the reason you are doing the action that results in people getting hurt is of greater benefit, regardless of your intent.

What if you’re doing the action to absolve a failed president from responsibility for a failed pandemic response that has led to the deaths of half a million Americans and in turn scapegoat a group of people that largely had nothing to do with creating the problem in the first place?

Then said action is acceptable, right?

 

[Lapaz]

I am one of those of members. I have no problem calling it the china virus because of where it originated. I also don't have a desire to hurt Asian people because of it.

If this was the cause, when do we see attacks on the British in the country for the "UK Variant"?

Have you ever called the Swine Flu the American virus? I’ve certainly never heard anyone refer to it that way. Calling it the China flu was a transparent attempt to deflect blame and stir anger towards China, and that led to blaming Asians.

 

[Roofgardener]

I am one of those of members. I have no problem calling it the china virus because of where it originated. I also don't have a desire to hurt Asian people because of it.

If this was the cause, when do we see attacks on the British in the country for the "UK Variant"?

Is the UK Variant prelevant in the USA ?

These attacks have been going on since this first started

This is something I posted back in the original EE Covid thread early on
==========================================================
Last I read they think a bat infected a pangolin? (Kind of anteater) and eating that passed to humans

And I assume that the Chinese have been eating both for centuries or longer

To me this is like calling it the Chinese or Wuhan virus

Just a subtle (or not so subtle) way to say

This is all happening because of THOSE foreign people in THAT foreign country

Bringing up the bat just adds to it

This is all happening because THOSE foreign people in THAT foreign country EAT filthy vermin because of their primitive backwards foreign ways

That is NOT politically correct. True.. accurate.. but not politically correct.

I talked about this in the coronavirus thread.
This was predicted. It is of course not definitive proof, but there is a strong correlation between calling a disease by the region of origin and attacks on people from that area.

So, if someone tells you an action you are performing will hurt people, and you continue to do it, you should really be sure that the reason you are doing the action that results in people getting hurt is of greater benefit, regardless of your intent.

I should clarify that I don’t know that the rise in attacks on Asians is directly caused by calling it the Chinese virus, there likely isn’t a single cause. But it was predicted that calling it the Chinese virus would lead to hate crimes and that did happen, so we have a correlation.

Except.. in the cases that have led to arrests, the police have ruled out 'hate' as a motive ?

What if you’re doing the action to absolve a failed president from responsibility for a failed pandemic response that has led to the deaths of half a million Americans and in turn scapegoat a group of people that largely had nothing to do with creating the problem in the first place?

Then said action is acceptable, right?

Actually, Trump was quite a successful president (though he had a lamentable habit of shooting his mouth off), and the Pandemic response was very effective, by the standards of most advanced cultures ? (the USA has done better than the UK, for example). And - thus far - there has been no evidence of 'scapegoating' Asians for it ?

 

[RobF]

Actually, Trump was quite a successful president (though he had a lamentable habit of shooting his mouth off), and the Pandemic response was very effective, by the standards of most advanced cultures ? (the USA has done better than the UK, for example). And - thus far - there has been no evidence of 'scapegoating' Asians for it ?

Please provide some citations or at least some reasoning to back up those very out there assertions. And if you do, please try not to present something completely out of context and then spend the next day refusing to understand why it's out of context.

For the record, the USA's pandemic response, much like the UK's, has been terrible. They are, broadly, on a par with each other. If you take a look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ you can see that in terms of deaths/1M population, the UK is 6th highest in the world (1,787 recorded), and the USA 9th (1,560). When you also account for variations in how these are recorded between countries, and note that the UK has higher testing/1M (1,286,312/1M) compared to the USA's (1,061,034/1M) but has recorded lower cases (60,844/1M to 87,208/1M respectively), there's at least some reason to suspect, in the absence of another explanation that fully explains it, that the USA may have under-recorded deaths compared to the UK.

But whether they have or not, they're both clearly in the same ballpark, and both terrible. 6th and 9th highest death tolls in the world is terrible. Not 'very effective'. Appalling.

As for evidence of the impact on Asians, oh, let's see, there's https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52714804 and https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/12/covid-19-fueling-anti-asian-racism-and-xenophobia-worldwide and https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...incidents-covid-19-lunar-new-year/4447037001/ and a whole load of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...elated_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic#United_States and...

I await your response which I can't help but suspect will largely involve a semantic discussing of the definition of 'scapegoating' and will consequently completely miss the context and hence the point.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Actually, Trump was quite a successful president (though he had a lamentable habit of shooting his mouth off), and the Pandemic response was very effective, by the standards of most advanced cultures ? (the USA has done better than the UK, for example). And - thus far - there has been no evidence of 'scapegoating' Asians for it ?

this you?

 

[Yggdrasill]

I know the goal here is to try and get people to blame Trump supporters when the assailant is actually a black teen. It's predictable whenever the perpetrator is black in these situations. I'm just glad they got him and I hope he never sees the light of day again.

Sorry, I missed where someone did that?

 

[Roofgardener]

this you?

I think I DID say about him shooting his mouth off ? (in this case, by proxy). At the same time, It's worth remembering that - back in February 2020 - he was following - or exceeding - WHO advice ? (unlike - say - Nancy Pelosi, who was encouraging social gatherings ? )

 

[Roofgardener]

Please provide some citations or at least some reasoning to back up those very out there assertions. And if you do, please try not to present something completely out of context and then spend the next day refusing to understand why it's out of context.

For the record, the USA's pandemic response, much like the UK's, has been terrible. They are, broadly, on a par with each other. If you take a look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ you can see that in terms of deaths/1M population, the UK is 6th highest in the world (1,787 recorded), and the USA 9th (1,560). When you also account for variations in how these are recorded between countries, and note that the UK has higher testing/1M (1,286,312/1M) compared to the USA's (1,061,034/1M) but has recorded lower cases (60,844/1M to 87,208/1M respectively), there's at least some reason to suspect, in the absence of another explanation that fully explains it, that the USA may have under-recorded deaths compared to the UK.

But whether they have or not, they're both clearly in the same ballpark, and both terrible. 6th and 9th highest death tolls in the world is terrible. Not 'very effective'. Appalling.

As for evidence of the impact on Asians, oh, let's see, there's https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52714804 and https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/12/covid-19-fueling-anti-asian-racism-and-xenophobia-worldwide and https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...incidents-covid-19-lunar-new-year/4447037001/ and a whole load of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...elated_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic#United_States and...

I await your response which I can't help but suspect will largely involve a semantic discussing of the definition of 'scapegoating' and will consequently completely miss the context and hence the point.

The majority of those links describe anecdotal events, or reports that rely on anecdotes. That's not to say they are not true, but I don't believe they are backed up by actual arrests and subsequent interrogations ? The few cases where there WHERE arrests, the investigating officers concluded that there was NOT a 'racist' or 'hate' motivation.

Nontheless, there MUST be SOME truth in it. However, the fact of the matter is that the disease came from China. Are we supposed to hide the truth, just in case some nutters use it to target specific nationals ?

 

[MT15]

Oh good lord. Trump himself has politicized (discouraged) wearing masks, encouraged mass spreader events, undermined scientific facts, promoted unproven treatments and championed a quack (Alexander) who knows nothing about epidemiology. His mishandling of the pandemic is quite probably the single most important reason he lost the election. It was just mind-numbingly bad.

 

[B4YOU]

When it was officially named.

Take a look at this list of infectious diseases. You’ll note that none of them are named for their location of origin.

List of infectious diseases - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dengue Fever, Brazilian/Bolivian Hemorrhagic Fever, Ebola Virus, Norovirus, Lassa Fever, etc.

All of these are named after a location of origin. However, it’s a bad practice and we shouldn’t continue it.

 

[brandon]

Dengue Fever, Brazilian/Bolivian Hemorrhagic Fever, Ebola Virus, Norovirus, Lassa Fever, etc.

All of these are named after a location of origin. However, it’s a bad practice and we shouldn’t continue it.

Retracted. Location of origin was definitely incorrect (though dengue was not named after it's location of origin).

But there's a distinct nuanced difference between officially naming a virus after a city, a village, or a river, and intentionally calling a virus "the China virus" which happens to implicate an entire country you happen to already have blamed many of your own country's problems on.

It's a willful attempt to deflect blame from the former president's pandemic response onto the government and/or people of China.

 

[RobF]

The majority of those links describe anecdotal events, or reports that rely on anecdotes. That's not to say they are not true, but I don't believe they are backed up by actual arrests and subsequent interrogations ?

There are many things that can substantiate accounts of this nature. Reliable witnesses, photos, video (for example), etc. Your implied premise that accounts of this nature need to be backed up by 'actual arrests and subsequent interrogations' is so inherently and obviously flawed that it comes across as highly disingenuous.

The few cases where there WHERE arrests, the investigating officers concluded that there was NOT a 'racist' or 'hate' motivation.

Don't pretend you've done the necessary reading to make a statement that is, again, completely false.

FBI calling stabbing at Midland Sam's a hate crime

An FBI report obtained by ABC News says the stabbing of three Chinese-Americans at the Sam's in Midland was a hate crime.

www.cbs7.com

Nontheless, there MUST be SOME truth in it. However, the fact of the matter is that the disease came from China. Are we supposed to hide the truth, just in case some nutters use it to target specific nationals ?

Firstly, not actually a fact. It's very highly probable that the origin was in China, but the actual origin of Covid-19 has not been established.

Secondly, you're conflating calling a disease a misnomer with hiding its origins. This is yet another false premise; the origin of a disease can, clearly, be known without having to be embedded in its name.

Thirdly, the name of the disease is Covid-19. At no point, including before it was named, has 'china virus' been its popular name (just 'coronavirus' was far more popular as google trends will show you). At no point has there been any reason whatsoever to call it 'china virus', other than to emphasise its likely origin, and the only reason to do that is to stir up animosity towards China and people, rightly or often wrongfully, thought to be associated with China. And to do so is shameful. Full stop.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Sorry, I missed where someone did that?

It’s the reason it was posted.

Whenever a minority commits a crime like this that people will think is a hate crime, we get someone from the far right that will post it. The assumption is people won’t actually read the article and look at the facts, just assume it was a white person and, the last 4 years, a Trump supporter. It’s a trap, and so predictable that I can look at the person who posted it and immediately say “the perpetrator is a minority”.

How certain am I that the perpetrator was a minority? I posted my reply before actually looking and seeing that he was. I was risking looking stupid, but I was just that confident the pattern would hold. Law of averages and all that good stuff.

 

[Farb]

Gotcha, so since I posted this and it turns out the some of the wack jobs are black, my intent as a 'trump supporter' or a white person is already predetermined and is racist.

Ok, I am fine with that.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Not what I said. I don’t think you’re racist at all. I do think you’re invested in grievance populism. The goal is to show that, in your opinion, people unfairly immediately assume a hate crime must have been committed by a white person, and usually a right leaning one.

Trying to prove that point doesn’t make you racist. Not even close.

 

[bdb13]

I do think you’re invested in grievance populism.

Hadn't heard it put that way before, but I like it. Trumpism, most concisely, is grievance populism.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Hadn't heard it put that way before, but I like it. Trumpism, most concisely, is grievance populism.

I feel like it's been all downhill for conservatism once they got infected with victimization politics.

 

[J-DONK]

I don't think this is completely because Trump called the wuhan flu. I think this is the majority of it yes, but lets go over the current state of things.

U.S. intel agencies still haven’t ruled out lab accident origin for Covid

U.S. officials haven't shown any evidence pointing to a lab escape, and scientists call the scenario unlikely. The U.S. wants China to share information.

www.nbcnews.com

We still haven't ruled out that this thing was made in a lab.

Some things staring the world in the face over this:

1. China's official story is this virus originated within walking distant of our equivalent of the CDC.
2. Asians have had far lower deaths, and cases despite being more densely populated.
3. China has not, and apparently will not be forthcoming about the origins of the virus.
4. Biden wants to end U.S. reliance on the Chinese.

I also believe this theory is widely accepted in this conspiracy circles. It's easy to see why idiots would equate Asian=Chinese, and be lashing out.