Impeachment Round Two (3 Viewers)

[Yggdrasill]

I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.

 

[insidejob]

He literally has no policies, just "yay America" symbolism.

This really shouldn't be that hard to put to pasture.

The democrats should just start stealing his slogans and water them down to the point where he has nothing left.

"In proposing to change the name of the Washington Monument to the LGBTQIA+ BLM Obelisque of Tolerance, house democrats are truly Making America Great Again by putting America First.

He should start the "YAY AMERICA Party" as an alternative for the forever Trumpers to the GOP.

 

[porculator]

Can anyone, I mean ANYONE, say with a straight face that they can see Trump actually using these words. I know he has the best words and is a stable genius, but no, this ain't how he talks or writes (not sure he really can).

I mean the obsession with appearance over substance is right on brand, but yea one of his staffers must have replaced "sad ugly turtle" with "dour and sullen"

 

[MT15]

He wrote the part making fun of Mitch’s double chins, but the real speechwriter took that out.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Can anyone, I mean ANYONE, say with a straight face that they can see Trump actually using these words. I know he has the best words and is a stable genius, but no, this ain't how he talks or writes (not sure he really can).

Agree, although it is in Trump's character, if not his vocabulary, to use three words that mean the same thing.

 

[Roofgardener]

He should start the "YAY AMERICA Party" as an alternative for the forever Trumpers to the GOP.

ROFL.. so instead of the GOP, we'll have the YAP ?

 

[wardorican]

Can anyone, I mean ANYONE, say with a straight face that they can see Trump actually using these words. I know he has the best words and is a stable genius, but no, this ain't how he talks or writes (not sure he really can).

Hack, yeah. The rest, nah.

 

[wardorican]

ROFL.. so instead of the GOP, we'll have the YAP ?

Or the Wow America Party - WAP

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Or the Wow America Party - WAP

 

[DaveXA]

Not really impeachment related, but definitely a Trump 2024 thought. I've thought a Presidential candidate being more transparent regarding potential financial and business entanglements and/or conflicts of interest would be a requirement for being able to run. This should be codified into law imo.

And this isn't just about Trump, but any future candidate, so I think it would pass Constitutional muster.

 

[SaintForLife]

I'm paraphrasing, but it was pretty close. And either way, he didn't need Twitter to have that comment amplified by all the media.

According to the "fact checker" Politifact, they rate is as false that Trump said all Mexicans are rapists.


Our ruling

Trump has roiled emotions with his debunked claims that the Mexican government is sending "rapists" and other violent criminals into the U.S. as unauthorized immigrants."

Kaine has embellished the controversy by saying Trump has said "all Mexicans are rapists." The Democrat doesn’t come close to proving his claim; all of the Trump quotes Kaine’s campaign sent us pertain to unauthorized immigrants crossing the Mexican border into the U.S.

No doubt, many Latinos have taken umbrage with what Trump actually has said. But Kaine put an insult into the mouth of Trump that never was uttered.

So we rate Kaine’s statement False.

PolitiFact - Tim Kaine falsely says Trump said 'all Mexicans are rapists'

Tim Kaine’s two-word description of Donald Trump is "trash talker." Kaine, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, use

www.politifact.com

 

[DaveXA]

According to the "fact checker" Politifact, they rate is as false that Trump said all Mexicans are rapists.


Our ruling

Trump has roiled emotions with his debunked claims that the Mexican government is sending "rapists" and other violent criminals into the U.S. as unauthorized immigrants."

Kaine has embellished the controversy by saying Trump has said "all Mexicans are rapists." The Democrat doesn’t come close to proving his claim; all of the Trump quotes Kaine’s campaign sent us pertain to unauthorized immigrants crossing the Mexican border into the U.S.

No doubt, many Latinos have taken umbrage with what Trump actually has said. But Kaine put an insult into the mouth of Trump that never was uttered.

So we rate Kaine’s statement False.

PolitiFact - Tim Kaine falsely says Trump said 'all Mexicans are rapists'

Tim Kaine’s two-word description of Donald Trump is "trash talker." Kaine, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, use

www.politifact.com

Yeah, although Trump never explicitly said all, and clearly states a subset of people, he knew what he was doing and knew it was textbook dog whistling.

 

[SaintForLife]

Yeah, although Trump never explicitly said all, and clearly states a subset of people, he knew what he was doing and knew it was textbook dog whistling.

So why not just let his statement stand based on what he actually said instead of embellishing it?

It's exactly like the Charlottesville fine people quote where he was clearly talking about the people protesting the statues and protesting their removal. He said in the next sentence or so that he wasn't talking about the neo nazis and white supremacists who deserve to be condemned.

There was plenty legitimate things to criticize Trump on so why was there a need to create a false narrative that many people still believe to be true?

 

[DaveXA]

So why not just let his statement stand based on what he actually said instead of embellishing it?

It's exactly like the Charlottesville fine people quote where he was clearly talking about the people protesting the statues and protesting their removal. He said in the next sentence or so that he wasn't talking about the neo nazis and white supremacists who deserve to be condemned.

There was plenty legitimate things to criticize Trump on so why was there a need to create a false narrative that many people still believe to be true?

I understand and get it. But, Trump himself invites that sort of criticism by the way he speaks. Even without that, he's just an abrasive person who seems to relish mocking other people. Essentially a lot of people are getting in the mud the same way he does. They all do it. I'm not excusing the embellishing, but hyperbole and strawmen are hallmarks of political discourse these days.

 

[SFIDC3]

So why not just let his statement stand based on what he actually said instead of embellishing it?

It's exactly like the Charlottesville fine people quote where he was clearly talking about the people protesting the statues and protesting their removal. He said in the next sentence or so that he wasn't talking about the neo nazis and white supremacists who deserve to be condemned.

There was plenty legitimate things to criticize Trump on so why was there a need to create a false narrative that many people still believe to be true?

I don't know about you, but I was sure proud when the great president Trump:

1) Told that great Proud Boys group (just a bunch of good patriots, they) to "stand back and stand by"

and

2) Told that fine group of patriots that visited the Capital that day that "he loved them and they were special". I bet that guy with the Camp Auschwitz hoodie was really touched....

I guess Trump over time (from Charlottesville to item 1) changed his mind on condemning white supremacists and Neo Nazis?

 

[RobF]

According to the "fact checker" Politifact, they rate is as false that Trump said all Mexicans are rapists.


Our ruling

Trump has roiled emotions with his debunked claims that the Mexican government is sending "rapists" and other violent criminals into the U.S. as unauthorized immigrants."

Kaine has embellished the controversy by saying Trump has said "all Mexicans are rapists." The Democrat doesn’t come close to proving his claim; all of the Trump quotes Kaine’s campaign sent us pertain to unauthorized immigrants crossing the Mexican border into the U.S.

No doubt, many Latinos have taken umbrage with what Trump actually has said. But Kaine put an insult into the mouth of Trump that never was uttered.

So we rate Kaine’s statement False.

PolitiFact - Tim Kaine falsely says Trump said 'all Mexicans are rapists'

Tim Kaine’s two-word description of Donald Trump is "trash talker." Kaine, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, use

www.politifact.com

As you've just quoted, the particular point Politifact is making there is that Trump was talking about immigrants, not 'all Mexicans'.

Now look at @wardorican's post again. Was he making the same claim Kaine was, or did he say that Trump was talking about Mexican immigrants?

Right.

You can't take a fact check on one statement and then claim it shows another, different statement is misleading. You're right, in that it's important to get things right when attributing statements to people; the same goes for fact-checking them.

 

[Complex Kid]

Not really impeachment related, but definitely a Trump 2024 thought. I've thought a Presidential candidate being more transparent regarding potential financial and business entanglements and/or conflicts of interest would be a requirement for being able to run. This should be codified into law imo.

And this isn't just about Trump, but any future candidate, so I think it would pass Constitutional muster.

I mean you have to do all of that to get a gaming license's in Louisiana to make sure you don't owe tons of people lots of money if you want to deal cards to make sure your not predisposed to try and steal from the casinos.

I would think we could hold the highest office in the land to the same standards.

 

[wardorican]

So why not just let his statement stand based on what he actually said instead of embellishing it?

It's exactly like the Charlottesville fine people quote where he was clearly talking about the people protesting the statues and protesting their removal. He said in the next sentence or so that he wasn't talking about the neo nazis and white supremacists who deserve to be condemned.

There was plenty legitimate things to criticize Trump on so why was there a need to create a false narrative that many people still believe to be true?

So, I was going off memory, and I said "basically all Mexican Immigrants". That doesn't mean "exactly all" or "all". Did he mean mostly? It's hard to infer, since he added that ending.

Also, I later updated with the full quotes to clarify.

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best,” he said in the same speech. “They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

So, if some are good people, does that imply most aren't? If most aren't good people, can we say most are bringing drugs, bringing crime, and they're rapists?

An in any case, this little exercise in demanding a overt level of specificity of a somewhat unspecific phrase (mind you, I didn't say he said all mexican immigrants are rapists... I said basically.. and it was just to remind everyone of the event without looking up the details), misses the entire point I was making.

That comment, which I've fully quoted twice now, was made without Twitter and made all kinds of news. So, Twitter wasn't necessary for him to take over the news day or week.

 

[SaintForLife]

I understand and get it. But, Trump himself invites that sort of criticism by the way he speaks. Even without that, he's just an abrasive person who seems to relish mocking other people. Essentially a lot of people are getting in the mud the same way he does. They all do it. I'm not excusing the embellishing, but hyperbole and strawmen are hallmarks of political discourse these days.

We should hope that media organizations, that many hold up to be accurate, wouldn't get down in the mud and behave like Trump.

I know exactly why the media ran with the Mexicans are all rapists, fine people etc is because it harmed Trump. I think it's fine to call out those in the media when they are purposely being dishonest to help advance an agenda.