Impeachment Round Two (2 Viewers)

[Yggdrasill]

I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.

 

[DaveXA]

Principled conservatives, (as opposed to QAnon, Trumpist, Republican) crazies aren't going to have much to debate on this subject. Dude's guilty as sin. Trump conducted a long-term self-coup that only failed because he relied on dipshirts to carry out the last phase.
A few well-trained Blackwater mercs would've changed the whole complexion of the day and we'd be conducting a whole slew of special elections to replace murdered representatives.
Philosophical Conservatism abhors and rejects Trump just as harshly as Progressivism does.

Just to add to that, I can't imagine what would have happened if Trump did hire competent mercs. Just relieved that his bullies were about as competent as his legal team. Phew.

 

[SFIDC3]

Principled conservatives, (as opposed to QAnon, Trumpist, Republican) crazies aren't going to have much to debate on this subject. Dude's guilty as sin. Trump conducted a long-term self-coup that only failed because he relied on dipshirts to carry out the last phase.
A few well-trained Blackwater mercs would've changed the whole complexion of the day and we'd be conducting a whole slew of special elections to replace murdered representatives.
Philosophical Conservatism abhors and rejects Trump just as harshly as Progressivism does.

This is a great point and unfortunately not an unrealistic one. Because there most certainly is another Trump type out there in the GOP and if they have a more bigly IQ this could turn out way different in the future.

My hope is that the Republican party destroys itself and a better, more reasonable/rational conservative party emerges one day, not because I would join it, but because it is important to this country to have opposing ideas and parties.....healthy discourse on policy and such.....

Taurus, your post above was the post of the year (thus far) IMO....

 

[wardorican]

I don't think it's being exaggerated specifically for Trump. The scope and depth of his lies and false narratives dwarf anything we have ever seen from a major political figure. Because of that even his favored mouthpiece, Fox, often has to back away or downplay his statements. Twitter allows him to get his message out his way. There's no other mainstream place for him to do that because nobody with even the tiniest bit of standards or reputation to uphold will.

So for Trump, Twitter is absolutely essential. That doesn't mean he has the right to consistently and unabashedly break the Terms of Service he agreed to when he joined.

To a point, yes, but I think more so that his posts were amplified by various traditional media. It was a way for him to make his own news, but that's the same as when he first announced his candidacy and said that Mexican Immigrants are basically all rapists, thieves, and murderers.

Twitter just allowed him to shot gun a bunch of stuff to see what stuck.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Interesting just coming out and admitting party over country, really Trump over party
============================
The chair of the Republican Party in Washington County, Pennsylvania has strongly criticized Senator Pat Toomey (R-PA) for voting to convict former President Donald Trump.


David Ball told local CBS affiliate KDKA on Monday that state Republicans had sent Toomey to Washington to represent them and argued that he should have toed the party line.

"We did not send him there to vote his conscience. We did not send him there to do the right thing or whatever he said he was doing," Ball said. "We sent him there to represent us.".........

GOP County Chair Blasts Pat Toomey Impeachment Vote

Toomey was one of six Republicans who joined Senate Democrats in voting to convict former president Donald Trump.

www.newsweek.com

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

I don't think he was as big of a threat as the left and media claimed he was mainly due to incompetence.

I do think his actions after the election were horrible and the worst things he's done as President. His constant claims of the election being stolen was extremely harmful as well as still claiming that when he was supposed to be calming down the people who stormed the capital.

He deserved to be impeached although I don't think the Democrats cared about punishing him. It was all about preventing him from running again and also splitting the Republican party in two if they could have gotten enough Republican votes.

I agree that the media exaggerated up every little thing Trump did but I think many of those things were tells along the way to where we arrived on January 6. Trump has always shown a disrespect for the republican form of government and the election fraud claim was not wholly unpredictable.

Obviously the Democrats stand to gain from a Republican party split in two but America stands to lose if the Republican party remains the party of Trump after his actions. I understand why the majority of Republicans voted the way they did -- practicality and concerns of losing voters -- but as Mitt Romney posed to his fellow Republicans: "Do we weigh our own political fortunes more heavily than we weigh the strength of our Republic, the strength of our democracy, and the cause of freedom? What is the weight of personal acclaim compared to the weight of conscience?"

Yes, the Democrats would have capitalized off of the Republicans doing the right thing in this instance but it would have strengthened their party -- and the country -- over the long haul. It was never just about 'Orange Man Bad,' it was about Trump having a narcissistic and authoritarian disposition with nothing approaching an ethical filter. Biden will certainly lie and misdirect as nearly every single President has done but those flaws, while regrettable, don't endanger the republic to the same order of magnitude. And this connects to the 'Biden Tracker' thread. I have no problem with it in and people calling out Biden's flaws but I would bet anything Biden does not 'track' us towards a path of fomenting insurrection.

 

[Roofgardener]

To a point, yes, but I think more so that his posts were amplified by various traditional media. It was a way for him to make his own news, but that's the same as when he first announced his candidacy and said that Mexican Immigrants are basically all rapists, thieves, and murderers.
....

except, of course, that he never said that ?

 

[RobF]

except, of course, that he never said that ?

As with everything else, you'll say he didn't say that, people will point to him saying that with citations, you'll say, "But that's not what he meant", they'll point out that yes, it clearly is what he meant, and explain why that's the case, and you'll say, "Nuh uh," someone will describe what you're doing as trolling, you'll claim you're "just asking questions" and then you'll do it all over again.

So how about we skip all that this time and just say we did it?

 

[Roofgardener]

Except that he didn't say that.

 

[DaveXA]

Except that he didn't say that.

This is what he said.

What can be simpler or more accurately stated? The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.

 

[Taurus]

As with everything else, you'll say he didn't say that, people will point to him saying that with citations, you'll say, "But that's not what he meant", they'll point out that yes, it clearly is what he meant, and explain why that's the case, and you'll say, "Nuh uh," someone will describe what you're doing as trolling, you'll claim you're "just asking questions" and then you'll do it all over again.

So how about we skip all that this time and just say we did it?

We should give it a name, like 'the 45 maneuver'.

 

[insidejob]

So I'm not reading everything I missed here since Friday, it'd take forever. But did anyone come across Roger Stone having six "security" people with him on Jan. 5 & 6 who were Oath Keepers who are also on camera in the Capitol?

ETA: I found one of the twitter threads.

 

[wardorican]

except, of course, that he never said that ?

I'm paraphrasing, but it was pretty close. And either way, he didn't need Twitter to have that comment amplified by all the media.

“When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity,” Trump said as he announced his candidacy on June 16, 2015. “And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. But they’re killing us economically. The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems.”

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best,” he said in the same speech. “They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

 

[MT15]

So I'm not reading everything I missed here since Friday, it'd take forever. But did anyone come across Roger Stone having six "security" people with him on Jan. 5 & 6 who were Oath Keepers who are also on camera in the Capitol?

ETA: I found one of the twitter threads.

This connection is important, IMO. The lawsuit filed by the NAACP and the one filed by the congressman will rely on proving some connection between Rudy, Trump and the organizations named, which were the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Trump is coming hard and heavy at McConnell
===================================


(CNN)Former President Donald Trump went after Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Tuesday, calling him "a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack" in a broadside attack just days after the Kentucky Republican voted to acquit Trump in his second impeachment trial.

After that vote, McConnell ripped Trump in a speech from the Senate floor, and the two have been estranged in recent months after working closely together during the former President's four years in office.

"Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again," Trump said in the statement. "He will never do what needs to be done, or what is right for our Country. Where necessary and appropriate, I will back primary rivals who espouse Making America Great Again and our policy of America First. We want brilliant, strong, thoughtful, and compassionate leadership."

Trump's call for compassionate leadership came in a petty statement full of ad hominem attacks, including a jab at McConnell's family, and after years of some of the most vitriolic political leadership in American history. The former President routinely insulted his critics and political opponents, as well as members of the military, his own health experts and fellow Republicans who he did not find sufficiently loyal.................


Trump rips McConnell in lengthy statement after being acquitted in impeachment trial - CNNPolitics

 

[Taurus]

Trump is coming hard and heavy at McConnell
===================================


(CNN)Former President Donald Trump went after Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Tuesday, calling him "a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack" in a broadside attack just days after the Kentucky Republican voted to acquit Trump in his second impeachment trial.

After that vote, McConnell ripped Trump in a speech from the Senate floor, and the two have been estranged in recent months after working closely together during the former President's four years in office.

"Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again," Trump said in the statement. "He will never do what needs to be done, or what is right for our Country. Where necessary and appropriate, I will back primary rivals who espouse Making America Great Again and our policy of America First. We want brilliant, strong, thoughtful, and compassionate leadership."

Trump's call for compassionate leadership came in a petty statement full of ad hominem attacks, including a jab at McConnell's family, and after years of some of the most vitriolic political leadership in American history. The former President routinely insulted his critics and political opponents, as well as members of the military, his own health experts and fellow Republicans who he did not find sufficiently loyal.................


Trump rips McConnell in lengthy statement after being acquitted in impeachment trial - CNNPolitics

I wonder who wrote that for him?

 

[insidejob]

This connection is important, IMO. The lawsuit filed by the NAACP and the one filed by the congressman will rely on proving some connection between Rudy, Trump and the organizations named, which were the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.

I agree. I read that whole thread and a couple others and he was surrounded by those people for the 5th and 6th and they stormed the Capitol. Would Trump be dumb enough to tweet out: "STORM THE CAPITOL! KILL PENCE! KILL PELOSI!"? (probably not, but maybe) but the fact is he didn't have to because of his operatives like Stone who have been setting this thing up for two months. How else would Trump have known that coming to DC on 1/6 was "going to be wild!"? Stone obviously has ties to these redneck militia traitors since he doesn't even pretend not to know them by using them as his security and then he had flooded DC with flyers for a speech on Capitol Hill on 1/6 right after the president's was done that he never showed up to. Sure seems lots of people armed with all kinds of disgraceful weapons did though. He was never making a speech there, just making sure to get enough crazy people to the area to do what would naturally happen after being egged on for months by Trump and Co.

I would love for these Oath Keepers who were his security detail to get cornered by stacks of criminal charges that could put them away for a good, long time - so much so that they jump at the offer to roll on Stone...who then would roll on Trump since he can't be pardoned anymore.

 

[porculator]

Trump is coming hard and heavy at McConnell
===================================
Where necessary and appropriate, I will back primary rivals who espouse Making America Great Again and our policy of America First. We want brilliant, strong, thoughtful, and compassionate leadership."

He literally has no policies, just "yay America" symbolism.

This really shouldn't be that hard to put to pasture.

The democrats should just start stealing his slogans and water them down to the point where he has nothing left.

"In proposing to change the name of the Washington Monument to the LGBTQIA+ BLM Obelisque of Tolerance, house democrats are truly Making America Great Again by putting America First.

 

[insidejob]

"a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack

Can anyone, I mean ANYONE, say with a straight face that they can see Trump actually using these words. I know he has the best words and is a stable genius, but no, this ain't how he talks or writes (not sure he really can).