How to improve American Education in 2021. (2 Viewers)

[Paul]

The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science.

U.S. students’ academic achievement still lags that of their peers in many other countries

American students continue to rank around the middle of the pack, and behind many other advanced industrial nations, in international assessments of math, science and reading.

www.pewresearch.org

My suggestion is rather simple.

1. Study why immigrants from East Asia, India, and Nigeria do well with American education. Apply that insight to other groups (if possible).
2. Manage public schools as if though they were private schools with uniforms and discipline.
3. Create high end special schools for those that are truly disenfranchised.
4. Create a force of social workers to treat family dysfunction with regards to education.
5. Reduce the curriculum to the simple basics and repeat that on a yearly basis.
6. At about 10th grade divide college bound students away from non-college bound.
7. Provide solid basic education and trade training for non-college bound kids. There is no point in offering free college to these kids.

 

[CoolBrees]

I love that @Paul just-
- flat out lied,
- got called out on it by @MT15,
- QUOTED HER CALLING HIM OUT and posted a non sequitur about defending bloated school status quo


That is high quality trolling. Which is to say terrible.

 

[DaveXA]

Private or Catholic? There really is a huge difference. At least in New Orleans.

Well, for me it was public and Catholic. I don't know about bullying in other private schools, but I assume it's not all that much different there either. Discipline might be different, but bullying is a problem in just about every school.

 

[Paul]

Tbh, bullying isn't much different between private and public schools. I dealt with plenty of bullying at both.

I was in public schools from K-5 and 11th and 12th grade. Private schools from 6th through 10th grades.

I love anecdotes.
I once jumped from a 4th floor balcony and was not hurt. It happens!

 

[CoolBrees]

I almost put this in the CRT thread.

It’s Reuter’s so you know you can trust it,

Insight: 'Critical race theory' roils a Tennessee school district

Robin Steenman, an Air Force veteran and white mother of three, is fed up with the way public schools in her community of Franklin, Tennessee are teaching kids about race.

www.reuters.com

The lady doesn’t even have a kid in the school. The books she has a problem with are fine. She’s ludicrous.

 

[MT15]

IN America kids from two parent homes perform better academically.

There you go again defending the status quo of poor public education.

You have terrible reading comprehension. I was merely asking questions that someone who is making the assertions you are making should know. We cannot really evaluate the assertions you are making without knowing some of these things, yet, you seem more interested in putting forth strawmen. I said nothing to defend the status quo.

 

[samiam5211]

IN America kids from two parent homes perform better

I’m sure those kids who bullied and sodomized that kid a Cedar Creek all made excellent grades.

Math isn’t everything.

 

[Paul]

You have terrible reading comprehension. I was merely asking questions that someone who is making the assertions you are making should know. We cannot really evaluate the assertions you are making without knowing some of these things, yet, you seem more interested in putting forth strawmen. I said nothing to defend the status quo.

Sorry for the straw man MT. I thought you guys were defending the poor public schools in so many cities.

My solution is simple:

Privatize the schools that are doing poorly. Contract out the education and if they do not do any better they can be fired with no questions asked. As of now the public school giant bureaucrasy cannot be fired if they do a poor job.

 

[xpuma20x]

Sorry for the straw man MT. I thought you guys were defending the poor public schools in so many cities.

My solution is simple:

Privatize the schools that are doing poorly. Contract out the education and if they do not do any better then can be fired with no questions asked. As of now the public school giant bureaucrasy cannot be fired if they do a poor job.

They can't be fired because there's nobody else to fill the positions. Not because of bureaucracy. Nobody wants to be a teacher any more because of the crap they have to deal with at the wages they make. Even those that find it a calling, will often find themselves in situations that they can't survive on the wages and stress and then go look for something else.

There's a whole lot more to raising school performance than just "do it better or get fired."

Also, from earlier in the thread, saying school systems are bloated with bureaucracy/non-teaching jobs means the person doesn't understand how school systems work now vs when they were in school. Yes, non-teaching positions have skyrocketed over the last 20 years or so. However, so has having specialty coordinators that help raise the teaching standards in the subjects. So has having a special education and a 504 coordinator on campus. Schools are trying to get more and more counselors than before due to the rise in understanding of how mental health affects young minds. Testing has now become so prevalent that there is often a single non-teaching person that their whole job is related to testing. You have ASL translators, ESL workers, technologists, legal experts (hello Cedar Creek), financial people, payroll, certification specialists, athletics from school level all the way to the top levels, accountants. Man I can sit here for several more hours listing all the "non-teaching" positions in a school district. These are must have positions or these districts can not function.

 

[Paul]

They can't be fired because there's nobody else to fill the positions. Not because of bureaucracy. Nobody wants to be a teacher any more because of the crap they have to deal with at the wages they make. Even those that find it a calling, will often find themselves in situations that they can't survive on the wages and stress and then go look for something else.

There's a whole lot more to raising school performance than just "do it better or get fired."

Private school teachers earn less but they do not have to put up with the stress of a public school system.

The stress can easily be removed by managing public schools like military academies and have the freedom to get rid of the bad apples.

 

[xpuma20x]

Private school teachers earn less but they do not have to put up with the stress of a public school system.

The stress can easily be removed by managing public schools like military academies and have the freedom to get rid of the bad apples.

Ignoring the fact that if you turned all public schools into private schools you basically have the exact same problem...Again, you can not get rid of the "bad apples" because there are literally no teachers to hire. The school I am at currently needs both a math and an English position (hit me up if any of you guys are interested and I'll give you details) that we can not fill. The response we got from the district? There are zero, none, zilch, nada, resumes on file to pull from. We have contacted all 3 local universities to see if they have anyone graduating in December or anyone working on their MAT that would like to get hired now. Nothing. Not a single one. We've contacted retired teachers to see if they want to come back and basically just got laughter. School systems are already overrun in regards to teacher to student ratio. You, and I can not stress this enough, can not just get rid of teachers and replace them. This is a nonstarter. It's just not possible currently.

Edit: This doesn't mean a teacher can't be fired for doing something bad or anything like that. It just means there's no room to get rid of teachers due to a perceived poor performance.

 

[CoolBrees]

I have never seen someone argue such a delusional position as @Paul, with such veracity no less.

You want to privatize some schools? How in the hell would that work? You realize if you give public funds to private institutions they are no longer private right? They have to serve the community right? ADA is a bear in old, large buildings and oh man would those boarding schools have trouble.

Oh, you are going to fire a school’s administration for lack of grades. Who is going to work in those conditions? Certainly not the administrator’s union. All new? From where? Right. You are clueless.

Why am I even typing. The “guy” lies blatantly and moves on like nothing.

 

[Goatman saint]

Private school teachers earn less but they do not have to put up with the stress of a public school system.

The stress can easily be removed by managing public schools like military academies and have the freedom to get rid of the bad apples.

I almost fell out of my chair at this one. Once again you have not a single clue as to what you are talking about. Take troubles kids (which usually need care and understanding not someone yelling at them) and put them into a higher pressure setting. Yeah only good things come out of military schools. Dang dude, I have in 20 some years of IronEra/Saintsreport/Madabout politics seen anyone so consistently wrong as you

 

[Paul]

Take troubles kids (which usually need care and understanding not someone yelling at them) and put them into a higher pressure setting. Yeah only good things come out of military schools.

Your pink color bleeding heart is duly noted. I guess you would never send your son or daughter to Annapolis, West Point, or the Air Force Academy.

What is wrong with disciplining students out of control? Can you explain that one to me?

Dang dude, I have in 20 some years of IronEra/Saintsreport/Madabout politics seen anyone so consistently wrong as you

Yes, tell me why it is wrong to put students in an academic environment where discipline is important. Please go ahead, I am all ears!

 

[Paul]

Ignoring the fact that if you turned all public schools into private schools you basically have the exact same problem...Again, you can not get rid of the "bad apples" because there are literally no teachers to hire. The school I am at currently needs both a math and an English position (hit me up if any of you guys are interested and I'll give you details) that we can not fill.

You cannot make people work, I will give you that. That is one of the consequences of getting free money from the government due to Covid. It will get much worse once we have UBI.

For most public schools, teachers get paid on the same scale regardless of which subject they teach. It is very hard to hire a good math teacher because the public school system pays them the same salary as other teachers. Thank the unions for that!

The response we got from the district? There are zero, none, zilch, nada, resumes on file to pull from. We have contacted all 3 local universities to see if they have anyone graduating in December or anyone working on their MAT that would like to get hired now. Nothing. Not a single one. We've contacted retired teachers to see if they want to come back and basically just got laughter. School systems are already overrun in regards to teacher to student ratio. You, and I can not stress this enough, can not just get rid of teachers and replace them. This is a nonstarter. It's just not possible currently.

Anyone talented enough to teach high school math can get paid more elsewhere. The unions will not allow the school to raise the salaries of math teachers.

Edit: This doesn't mean a teacher can't be fired for doing something bad or anything like that. It just means there's no room to get rid of teachers due to a perceived poor performance.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Your pink color bleeding heart is duly noted. I guess you would never send your son or daughter to Annapolis, West Point, or the Air Force Academy.

What is wrong with disciplining students out of control? Can you explain that one to me?

Yes, tell me why it is wrong to put students in an academic environment where discipline is important. Please go ahead, I am all ears!

What sort of discipline are you thinking? Also, how are you defining "out of control"?

 

[MT15]

Paul:

there are 20 some states that have gotten rid of the extra unemployment due to Covid. They have not seen an uptick in applications for the jobs that are unfilled. So no, the shortage of workers is probably not because of extra federal money. At least it doesn’t appear so right now. It’s been a right wing talking point, though, so I get why you would repeat it.

I imagine the current atmosphere of hostility toward teachers, carefully cultivated by right wing crazies, has something to do with the current teacher shortage. That’s just my opinion.

 

[Goatman saint]

Your pink color bleeding heart is duly noted. I guess you would never send your son or daughter to Annapolis, West Point, or the Air Force Academy.

What is wrong with disciplining students out of control? Can you explain that one to me?

Yes, tell me why it is wrong to put students in an academic environment where discipline is important. Please go ahead, I am all ears!

That is military service, and entirely a different subject.

I’m assuming by all your other posts your intention is the old spare the rod, spoil the child approach. Unlike you, this is what I do for a living. I teach the kids you are constantly putting down. The kids that act up, act out and cause issues almost always have significant issues at home. They don’t need additional discipline. They don’t need to toughen up or be knuckled under. They need someone who will care, put some trust in them and be a mentor and role model for. Your cavalier attitude to towards throwing these kids into military schools, boarding schools, whatever your latest plan is flies in the face of every shred of mental health research that is out right now.

 

[Goatman saint]

You cannot make people work, I will give you that. That is one of the consequences of getting free money from the government due to Covid. It will get much worse once we have UBI.

For most public schools, teachers get paid on the same scale regardless of which subject they teach. It is very hard to hire a good math teacher because the public school system pays them the same salary as other teachers. Thank the unions for that!



Anyone talented enough to teach high school math can get paid more elsewhere. The unions will not allow the school to raise the salaries of math teachers.

Just because you know math doesn’t mean you know how to teach it. Schools are filled with people who know math (need to have that single subject) but can’t teach worth anything. Subject matter competence doesn’t equal good teaching ability.