Have democrats become the anti police and anti law party ? (2 Viewers)

[the annoying thing]

Have Democrats turned into the anti-police party?

You need not look further than Democrat candidates for president to see that their party is one in which law and order place second fiddle to scoring votes.

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

When you look at how Biden's allowing in terrorist and felons from around the world and how democrat support illegal drug use and are soft on crime its makes you wonder what is wrong with them.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I believe there is an issue with taking soldiers who have been trained to kill and thinking that their service (which is greatly appreciated) qualifies them for police work. There needs to be a de-programming of those members of the military before they start police work. Instead, police departments pay people to come in and basically tell officers "you better shoot them before they shoot you." Below is an example of the training the officers are receiving. Warning for language and violence.

Actually, you can make the argument that former combat soldiers make better police officers because they know a real threat when they see one as opposed to an unreal threat. The biggest problem with most police officers when it comes to actually using deadly force is a lack of experience. They're afraid when they have no need to be.

"Military-Trained Police May Be Less Hasty To Shoot, But That Got This Vet Fired
Stephen Mader, a Marine Corps veteran who had become a police officer but was fired
10-Minute Listen

Chelsea Beck/NPR
There are plenty of recent stories involving white police officers who have shot and killed black men, including some who are on trial for those shootings. Then there's the case of a white cop who did not shoot a black man holding a gun — and it may have cost him his job.

It started with a 911 call for help in Weirton, W.Va., on May 6 at 2:51 a.m. An emergency dispatcher in turn put out a call for an officer.

"Had a female stating they needed someone right now. She sounded hysterical," the dispatcher said. "Hung up the phone, will not answer on call back."

Nearest to the address was Stephen Mader, a 25-year-old Marine Corps veteran and rookie cop who was alone in his squad car. He got to the house and saw Ronald D. Williams, a 23-year-old black man, standing outside with his hands behind his back.

"And I say, 'Show me your hands,' and he's like, 'Naw, I can't do that,' " Mader told NPR. "I said, 'Show me your f'ing hands.' And then he brings his hands from behind his back and puts them down to his side. And that's when I noticed he had a silver pistol in his right hand."

Mader didn't know it, but Williams' girlfriend, who was inside the apartment with their infant son, had called 911 again. She told the dispatcher:

"My ex-boyfriend's here. He has a gun. He doesn't have a clip in the gun. There's no clip in the gun. He's drunk. He's drunk. He took the clip out of the gun and he said he was going to threaten the police with it just so they would shoot him. He does not have a clip in the gun."

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On the 911 tape you hear Officer Mader on the radio saying, "We have a gun here." All the dispatcher said to the cops is this: "Watch out for a weapon."

Mader drew his weapon and told Williams to drop the pistol.

"Aim in on him, and I say, 'Drop your gun. Drop your gun,' " Mader told NPR. "And he said, 'I can't do that. Just shoot me.' And I told him, I said, 'I'm not gonna shoot you, brother — just put down the gun.' "

So even though Mader didn't know what Williams' girlfriend told 911 — that the gun was empty and the man was trying to commit "suicide by cop" — Mader didn't shoot."

 

[H B Lowrey]

What? LOL
What did they fork for me?

Right off the bad: there is no "militarized policing". And apparently bullet proof vests don't enhance police safety. Who knew.
Waste of time to read.

Another fail. Can't even get the picture right, showing police in riot gear without weapons. Slow clap.
The purpose of giving military equipment to the police is not to reduce crime, it is to confront it.

Another waste of time.

There are lost of accusations levied against the very few conservative posters who post here of regurgitating right-wing talking points, and here you are regurgitating left-wing talking points with lots of may's and could's and "studies", the latter such an overused, misinterpreted word.

You know what's going on which is why you need to so vociferously pretend otherwise. Furthermore, multiple FBI and DHS reports (Chad Wolf's DHS mind you) have noted white supremacist/nationalist infiltration of both law enforcement and the military.

 

[H B Lowrey]

Actually, you can make the argument that former combat soldiers make better police officers because they know a real threat when they see one as opposed to an unreal threat. The biggest problem with most police officers when it comes to actually using deadly force is a lack of experience. They're afraid when they have no need to be.

"Military-Trained Police May Be Less Hasty To Shoot, But That Got This Vet Fired
Stephen Mader, a Marine Corps veteran who had become a police officer but was fired
10-Minute Listen

Chelsea Beck/NPR
There are plenty of recent stories involving white police officers who have shot and killed black men, including some who are on trial for those shootings. Then there's the case of a white cop who did not shoot a black man holding a gun — and it may have cost him his job.

It started with a 911 call for help in Weirton, W.Va., on May 6 at 2:51 a.m. An emergency dispatcher in turn put out a call for an officer.

"Had a female stating they needed someone right now. She sounded hysterical," the dispatcher said. "Hung up the phone, will not answer on call back."

Nearest to the address was Stephen Mader, a 25-year-old Marine Corps veteran and rookie cop who was alone in his squad car. He got to the house and saw Ronald D. Williams, a 23-year-old black man, standing outside with his hands behind his back.

"And I say, 'Show me your hands,' and he's like, 'Naw, I can't do that,' " Mader told NPR. "I said, 'Show me your f'ing hands.' And then he brings his hands from behind his back and puts them down to his side. And that's when I noticed he had a silver pistol in his right hand."

Mader didn't know it, but Williams' girlfriend, who was inside the apartment with their infant son, had called 911 again. She told the dispatcher:


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On the 911 tape you hear Officer Mader on the radio saying, "We have a gun here." All the dispatcher said to the cops is this: "Watch out for a weapon."

Mader drew his weapon and told Williams to drop the pistol.

"Aim in on him, and I say, 'Drop your gun. Drop your gun,' " Mader told NPR. "And he said, 'I can't do that. Just shoot me.' And I told him, I said, 'I'm not gonna shoot you, brother — just put down the gun.' "

So even though Mader didn't know what Williams' girlfriend told 911 — that the gun was empty and the man was trying to commit "suicide by cop" — Mader didn't shoot."

Yeah, some people can make that argument and they're typically the ones who condone police violence against certain segments of society.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Yeah, some people can make that argument and they're typically the ones who condone police violence against certain segments of society.

Beyond ridiculous. This may be the dumbest post I've ever seen.

 

[H B Lowrey]

Beyond ridiculous. This may be the dumbest post I've ever seen.

If that's all you have, you came up empty. Would you care to take another pass at a coherent rebuttal?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Actually, you can make the argument that former combat soldiers make better police officers because they know a real threat when they see one as opposed to an unreal threat. The biggest problem with most police officers when it comes to actually using deadly force is a lack of experience. They're afraid when they have no need to be.

"Military-Trained Police May Be Less Hasty To Shoot, But That Got This Vet Fired
Stephen Mader, a Marine Corps veteran who had become a police officer but was fired
10-Minute Listen

Chelsea Beck/NPR
There are plenty of recent stories involving white police officers who have shot and killed black men, including some who are on trial for those shootings. Then there's the case of a white cop who did not shoot a black man holding a gun — and it may have cost him his job.

It started with a 911 call for help in Weirton, W.Va., on May 6 at 2:51 a.m. An emergency dispatcher in turn put out a call for an officer.

"Had a female stating they needed someone right now. She sounded hysterical," the dispatcher said. "Hung up the phone, will not answer on call back."

Nearest to the address was Stephen Mader, a 25-year-old Marine Corps veteran and rookie cop who was alone in his squad car. He got to the house and saw Ronald D. Williams, a 23-year-old black man, standing outside with his hands behind his back.

"And I say, 'Show me your hands,' and he's like, 'Naw, I can't do that,' " Mader told NPR. "I said, 'Show me your f'ing hands.' And then he brings his hands from behind his back and puts them down to his side. And that's when I noticed he had a silver pistol in his right hand."

Mader didn't know it, but Williams' girlfriend, who was inside the apartment with their infant son, had called 911 again. She told the dispatcher:


Article continues after sponsor message

On the 911 tape you hear Officer Mader on the radio saying, "We have a gun here." All the dispatcher said to the cops is this: "Watch out for a weapon."

Mader drew his weapon and told Williams to drop the pistol.

"Aim in on him, and I say, 'Drop your gun. Drop your gun,' " Mader told NPR. "And he said, 'I can't do that. Just shoot me.' And I told him, I said, 'I'm not gonna shoot you, brother — just put down the gun.' "

So even though Mader didn't know what Williams' girlfriend told 911 — that the gun was empty and the man was trying to commit "suicide by cop" — Mader didn't shoot."

From the same NPR article and for those with reading comprehension skills only (ruling out a certain poster on this page):

"Dave Wilson, chief in the Wisconsin town of Shell Lake, an Iraq War veteran himself, said the vets he has hired make for ideal cops.

​

"If anything else, they have a better understanding of rules of engagement and use of force than others might," Wilson said. "They're used to seeing people holding guns, and they take the time to assess the real danger of the situation."

Researchers are starting to look at this, too. At Washington State University, Stephen James is part of an effort to test law enforcement officers' reactions in simulators, and one of the factors they're tracking is whether the officers are veterans. The data haven't been compiled, yet, but he said other studies of how the brain operates under pressure would suggest that veterans are more "patient."

"Combat vets who've been exposed to extreme violence have a different 'threat threshold,' " James said, "which means that they're in more control of their physiology, and they're not allowing this fight-or-flight response to drive them into action."

 

[H B Lowrey]

From the same NPR article and for those with reading comprehension skills only (ruling out a certain poster on this page):

"Dave Wilson, chief in the Wisconsin town of Shell Lake, an Iraq War veteran himself, said the vets he has hired make for ideal cops.

​

"If anything else, they have a better understanding of rules of engagement and use of force than others might," Wilson said. "They're used to seeing people holding guns, and they take the time to assess the real danger of the situation."

Researchers are starting to look at this, too. At Washington State University, Stephen James is part of an effort to test law enforcement officers' reactions in simulators, and one of the factors they're tracking is whether the officers are veterans. The data haven't been compiled, yet, but he said other studies of how the brain operates under pressure would suggest that veterans are more "patient."

"Combat vets who've been exposed to extreme violence have a different 'threat threshold,' " James said, "which means that they're in more control of their physiology, and they're not allowing this fight-or-flight response to drive them into action."

Thank you for the anecdote. You get that anecdotes are different than FBI and DHS reports over time and administrations? Or no? Jacked up militarist trained juiced up thugs back from war who back in the day would have formed biker gangs go into law enforcement. Have you seen the stats on vet suicides? We've lost more to that shirt than we did actual war.

More Veterans Die By Suicide Than In Combat. But It's Preventable

The military's emphasis on personal responsibility keeps many distressed veterans from seeking help, write Anna Richardson and Sarah Roxburgh.

www.wbur.org

We're going to need some more screening than that mess. Just say no to occupational forces training for cops.

 

[SamAndreas]

Thank you for the anecdote. You get that anecdotes are different than FBI and DHS reports over time and administrations? Or no? Jacked up militarist trained juiced up thugs back from war who back in the day would have formed biker gangs go into law enforcement. Have you seen the stats on vet suicides? We've lost more to that shirt than we did actual war.

More Veterans Die By Suicide Than In Combat. But It's Preventable

The military's emphasis on personal responsibility keeps many distressed veterans from seeking help, write Anna Richardson and Sarah Roxburgh.

www.wbur.org

We're going to need some more screening than that mess. Just say no to occupational forces training for cops.

I've got an anecdote for you. It happened ten years ago. We had a brand new Sheriff and as Sheriff he was in the role as master of ceremonies for our town 4th of July fireworks show.

Here we don't have large open spaces, and our fair grounds arena is rather small. They don't use the really high flying rockets, just those medium high flying rockets because the place is so small, and the place from where they are launched from is fairly close to the stands where the people are.

I was developing a good impression of our new Sheriff insofar as how he was with people. I could also see the military stamp on him insofar as he had the bearing of someone who had obviously served.

Then one of those rockets went off course and it flew over his right shoulder where he was standing at the bottom in front of the stands.

It hit under where my feet where. I was on the second row of seats in the stands. It hit in the walkway in front of the seats, and then blew up under the first row seat shielding me from it's immediate blast.

The Sheriff caught some bit of the blast from behind where he was standing. He didn't flinch. He didn't stop what he was doing.

I didn't flinch either, but most of the folks there in the stands flinched. Flinching doesn't do any good after something has already happened and it isn't about to happen again.

So on the first day I got a good impression of our new Sheriff insofar as him being personable, and I got to see how he would handle being under fire.

Real good is how I though that would be.

He retired last year having been the best Sheriff I've ever been around, and I've been around Sheriff's for most of my life having lived mostly in rural settings.

 

[SystemShock]

You know what's going on which is why you need to so vociferously pretend otherwise.

What? LOL What the hell are you talking about? What am I pretending?

Furthermore, multiple FBI and DHS reports (Chad Wolf's DHS mind you) have noted white supremacist/nationalist infiltration of both law enforcement and the military.

Did they just find out? Because RATM was telling us about it back in the 1990's.

 

[Port City JJ]

I haven't taken the time to read the back-and-forths in this thread so skewer me if you want, but there ha absolutely been a hyper-militarization of the police force in America over the last 50 years.

It was purposeful and started by Nixon in an effort to thwart political enemies (black Americans and hippies) as he was concerned about losing power due to the rising unpopularity of the Vietnam war.

 

[Port City JJ]

Something like 1 in 5 police officers are former military.

I could go dig up a bunch of links, but since I didn't read eveything in the thread, I'd be a hypocrite if I started linking stuff for yall to read.

 

[insidejob]

Do you think the Chinese are shipping that Fentanyl to Mexico and having people hand carry it across the border? Or is it coming in hidden in containers on ships? Can you point to some changes in US policy enacted by the Biden administration that changed how containers on ships were inspected?

Anyone can order all the fentanyl or any other drug they want off the internet. And in pretty large quantities too. I'm not talking drug lord quantities, but definitely drug dealer quantities. So that's on the USPS Police and Customs to enforce when it gets here via air mail. The thing is: suppliers have gotten so good with their stealth that you can't detect the drugs in the first place in order to seize them.

 

[insidejob]

What? LOL What the hell are you talking about? What am I pretending?


Did they just find out? Because RATM was telling us about it back in the 1990's.

Hey, Propagandhi was telling us too! They just didn't get as famous as RATM.

NSFW language

 

[Port City JJ]

Overall, police militarization statistics seem to suggest that utilizing certain types of military equipment may result in reduced crime within a community but increased use of force by police officers against community members.

Excellent sourced paper (not an op-ed)

In summary:

-the police have absolutely been Militarized in America.
-There is empirical data that shows police militarization helps reduce certain types of crime
-there is also empirical data that shows clearly that militarized police result in an increased use of force by officers against civilians.


I think EVERYONE agrees that "defund the police" was a dumb catchphrase.

Now as far as explaining what it "means" or "looks like" I agree with those that are saying buying fewer SWAT tanks and hiring some mental health workers to deal with some of these calls would be more effective and tax money better spent.

 

[SystemShock]

Excellent sourced paper (not an op-ed)

In summary:

-the police have absolutely been Militarized in America.
-There is empirical data that shows police militarization helps reduce certain types of crime
-there is also empirical data that shows clearly that militarized police result in an increased use of force by officers against civilians.

Does the paper define what they mean by "militarized police'?

The second bullet, there is a misconception here... giving police military grade equipment is not meant to reduce crime, it is meant meet crime head on. That one study they link, it doesn't show causation. Speaking of studies, one has to be careful of what these studies say, and how they are conducted. Not all studies are created equal.

I think EVERYONE agrees that "defund the police" was a dumb catchphrase.

Apparently not everyone

 

[FullMonte]

Anyone can order all the fentanyl or any other drug they want off the internet. And in pretty large quantities too. I'm not talking drug lord quantities, but definitely drug dealer quantities. So that's on the USPS Police and Customs to enforce when it gets here via air mail. The thing is: suppliers have gotten so good with their stealth that you can't detect the drugs in the first place in order to seize them.

True...the point I was trying to make (and I may have done it poorly) is that this idea that Joe Biden's border policies have created a problem with drugs crossing the border is misplaced. The overwhelming majority of drugs are not walking across the southern border. They are coming in on ships in containers, and have been for decades.

 

[H B Lowrey]

I've got an anecdote for you. It happened ten years ago. We had a brand new Sheriff and as Sheriff he was in the role as master of ceremonies for our town 4th of July fireworks show.

Here we don't have large open spaces, and our fair grounds arena is rather small. They don't use the really high flying rockets, just those medium high flying rockets because the place is so small, and the place from where they are launched from is fairly close to the stands where the people are.

I was developing a good impression of our new Sheriff insofar as how he was with people. I could also see the military stamp on him insofar as he had the bearing of someone who had obviously served.

Then one of those rockets went off course and it flew over his right shoulder where he was standing at the bottom in front of the stands.

It hit under where my feet where. I was on the second row of seats in the stands. It hit in the walkway in front of the seats, and then blew up under the first row seat shielding me from it's immediate blast.

The Sheriff caught some bit of the blast from behind where he was standing. He didn't flinch. He didn't stop what he was doing.

I didn't flinch either, but most of the folks there in the stands flinched. Flinching doesn't do any good after something has already happened and it isn't about to happen again.

So on the first day I got a good impression of our new Sheriff insofar as him being personable, and I got to see how he would handle being under fire.

Real good is how I though that would be.

He retired last year having been the best Sheriff I've ever been around, and I've been around Sheriff's for most of my life having lived mostly in rural settings.

Doesn't sound like the trigger happy type, good for him and you. So no knocking down doors on black folka with guns blazing? Nice.

 

[H B Lowrey]

What? LOL What the hell are you talking about? What am I pretending?


Did they just find out? Because RATM was telling us about it back in the 1990's.

So you see the persistent pattern, good.